Roadblock wall, abuse?

[fatalsushi83]

Yeah, that's a really good point. May help to prevent ninja tactics.

[fabioxxxx]

If they are not bugging the game play the road high blocks should be valid (not that high ) but at least a proper wall that requires a specialist .

Since insurgents can't dig tunnels or change the cache location like they would do in real life... putting walls up it's a obvious thing to do, if you are bound to stay and defend a location at any cost... bluefor has enough power to break through (engineer, breacher, spotter) ...

[Dread_UA]

Sorry for little offtop. So, we got roadblocks. Hot many time we will wait vehicles like IMR-2?

http://saper.ucoz.ru/_ph/13/469857686.jpg

[Cmdr_Titan365]

There really just needs to be away to destroy them easier. Because 1 squad on the other side of a roadblock digging can keep a roadblock up no matter how many c4s you place on it.

[Armchairman_Mao]

There really just needs to be away to destroy them easier. Because 1 squad on the other side of a roadblock digging can keep a roadblock up no matter how many c4s you place on it.

Have you tried Engineer C4?

[solidfire93]

it's simple. the good servers wont allow that kind of excessive, gameplay breaking glitch.
maybe try joining one of those servers, or encourage your admins to discuss this.

really ??

i saw shit like this done by server admin's them selves not just for lulz,but abusing the shit out of it ! on AL Basrah insland i saw the great wall of china in every house and building !

they abuse this shit so much that you need to get a tank to remove it ! or blow it up !
its called road block not a giant huge mofo wall !!

blocking roads with it is fun and it will take longer time for Bluefor to push in directly.

but not like this !

[Menuen]

Yesterday someone put like 5-7 roadblocks on the first cashe. Cash was in the open and they didn't destroyed it. They even dropped Arty but roadblocks survived

[superhunty2]

Abusing roadblocks to prevent destruction of caches is one of the most frustrating and infuriating elements of PR and I implore DEVs to fix it. All players should agree with the following in regards to roadblocks and the functionality of the insurgency game type:

- Essential aim 1: Insurgents should be able to use roadblocks to block BLUFOR lines of communication, create ambushes and slow down access to caches. They should NOT be able to entirely prevent the destruction of a cache simply by using roadblocks.

- Essential aim 2: A BLUFOR squad with one breacher in control of a cache area should be able to destroy said cache. A successful assault onto a cache compound/building should be rewarded with the swift destruction of a cache.

In terms of the arguments proposed in favour of the current system in this thread previously:

- Argument 1 'BLUFOR failures': Saying BLUFOR should use vehicles or combat engineers is a poor excuse; there are many Infantry INS layers with no armour and combat engineer is an extremely limited kit (and often makes no difference in this sort of roadblock abuse). Example: Al Basrah cache in a subterranean hole. Number of insurgents trapped inside hole continuously digging a roadblock blocking entrance. British in complete control of the area unable to destroy roadblock even with numerous breachers, a Combat Engineer and a Warrior.

- Argument 2 'ninja prevention': A single combat engineer or breacher should be able to destroy a cache if they can gain access to it. In terms of 'ninjas' the issue is ease of access, not ease of destruction. Insurgents should not be able to prevent destruction of the cache simply using roadblocks but they should, however, be able to make access to the cache for said breacher more difficult. For instance blocking entrance to a compound so he has to use his rope or blow up roadblock revealing he is there.

- Argument 3 'realism': This is entirely defunct for many reasons not restricted to the ease things can be built in PR and the fact insurgents hide arms caches but they require access to them themselves.

Currently insurgents are able to entirely prevent the destruction of a cache, no matter how many BLUFOR resources are thrown into it. They can do this because:

- Broken 1: ability to place in buildings, in rooms and on cache itself

- Broken 2: ability to continually re-build roadblocks faster than their feasible destruction

- Broken 3: inability for BLUFOR to remove roadblocks easily enough

And thus to fix requires:

- Fix 1: Prevent roadblocks being placed within a set distance of caches - remember this is to hamper access to them, not entirely prevent their destruction

- Fix 2: Prevent roadblocks from being placed inside buildings. Roadblocks should be used to block roads and access to compounds, not to make buildings (or even rooms!) impossible to enter themselves

- Fix 3: Prevent stacking of multiple roadblocks

- Fix 4: One small C4 stick carried by a breacher should be able to destroy a roadblock entirely, not just down to a rebuildable state

Roadblocks should remain in the game but the ability to abuse them should not. I love the way people like Swamp Fox use their creativity in PR without abusing it or ruining the experience for others, its something that makes PR very unique. However do not listen to other so-called 'veterans' who think this type of thing should remain because they find it funny to ruin the game for others using glitches/broken mechanics.

[Armchairman_Mao]

Yesterday someone put like 5-7 roadblocks on the first cashe. Cash was in the open and they didn't destroyed it. They even dropped Arty but roadblocks survived

Cache in the open is part of why Roadblock exists.

[Armchairman_Mao]

Abusing roadblocks to prevent destruction of caches is one of the most frustrating and infuriating elements of PR and I implore DEVs to fix it. All players should agree with the following in regards to roadblocks and the functionality of the insurgency game type:

- Essential aim 1: Insurgents should be able to use roadblocks to block BLUFOR lines of communication, create ambushes and slow down access to caches. They should NOT be able to entirely prevent the destruction of a cache simply by using roadblocks.

- Essential aim 2: A BLUFOR squad with one breacher in control of a cache area should be able to destroy said cache. A successful assault onto a cache compound/building should be rewarded with the swift destruction of a cache.

In terms of the arguments proposed in favour of the current system in this thread previously:

- Argument 1 'BLUFOR failures': Saying BLUFOR should use vehicles or combat engineers is a poor excuse; there are many Infantry INS layers with no armour and combat engineer is an extremely limited kit (and often makes no difference in this sort of roadblock abuse). Example: Al Basrah cache in a subterranean hole. Number of insurgents trapped inside hole continuously digging a roadblock blocking entrance. British in complete control of the area unable to destroy roadblock even with numerous breachers, a Combat Engineer and a Warrior.

- Argument 2 'ninja prevention': A single combat engineer or breacher should be able to destroy a cache if they can gain access to it. In terms of 'ninjas' the issue is ease of access, not ease of destruction. Insurgents should not be able to prevent destruction of the cache simply using roadblocks but they should, however, be able to make access to the cache for said breacher more difficult. For instance blocking entrance to a compound so he has to use his rope or blow up roadblock revealing he is there.

- Argument 3 'realism': This is entirely defunct for many reasons not restricted to the ease things can be built in PR and the fact insurgents hide arms caches but they require access to them themselves.

Currently insurgents are able to entirely prevent the destruction of a cache, no matter how many BLUFOR resources are thrown into it. They can do this because:

- Broken 1: ability to place in buildings, in rooms and on cache itself

- Broken 2: ability to continually re-build roadblocks faster than their feasible destruction

- Broken 3: inability for BLUFOR to remove roadblocks easily enough

"Essential"1. There is no "line of communication." People spawn from thin air(fobs/rally), they don't walk from main base. Like you posted, not every Insurgency map has armour.
2. Why should Blufor automatically get a cache if they can't even find the cache behind a roadblock?

"Argument"1. Combat engineer and a breacher in every squad, all have C4; roadblock does not survive multiple C4.
2. Ease of access is exactly why it makes sense; it prevents lucky noobs from getting to the cache and forces BluFor to secure the area(which they should) to blow up the cache.
Not like roadblock is so easy to place everywhere(and there is a limit to how many can be in one area).
3. Insurgents can bury weapons if they don't need immediate access to it; and they don't, since everyone spawns with enough stuff to work with.

"Broken"1. Not broken, if you haven't noticed, there are no doors that can be opened/closed; "roadblocks" are the next best thing(the smaller one being conveniently the size of most doors).
2. if there is enough people to out-dig a big C4, then there isn't enough people on the other cache.
3. The whole point is to not let BluFor remove it easily; it takes much longer for INS to dig up roadblock than it does for BluFor to plant C4 on it.

In conclusion: Roadblock isn't broken. It takes a long time to set up in correct position, takes a long time to shovel up, usually gives away cache location, and does very little to a well-organized BluFor team that has ammobox/bags.

[superhunty2]

"Essential"1. There is no "line of communication."
2. Why should Blufor automatically get a cache if they can't even find the cache behind a roadblock?

"Argument"1. Combat engineer and a breacher in every squad, all have C4; roadblock does not survive multiple C4.
2. Ease of access is exactly why it makes sense; it prevents lucky noobs from getting to the cache and forces BluFor to secure the area(which they should) to blow up the cache.
Not like roadblock is so easy to place everywhere(and there is a limit to how many can be in one area).
3. Insurgents can bury weapons if they don't need immediate access to it; and they don't, since everyone spawns with enough stuff to work with.

"Broken"1. Not broken, if you haven't noticed, there are no doors that can be opened/closed; "roadblocks" are the next best thing(the smaller one being conveniently the size of most doors).
2. if there is enough people to out-dig a big C4, then there isn't enough people on the other cache.
3. The whole point is to not let BluFor remove it easily; it takes much longer for INS to dig up roadblock than it does for BluFor to plant C4 on it.

In conclusion: Roadblock isn't broken. It takes a long time to set up in correct position, takes a long time to shovel up, usually gives away cache location, and does very little to a well-organized BluFor team that has ammobox/bags.

Not ONE of your points holds up to accurate scrutiny.

1: Read some military doctrine before you look stupid, a Line of Communication is a transport/supply route (i.e. a road in PR) not a literal 'communication line'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_communication

2: In cases of roadblock abuse BluFor almost always knows exactly where the cache is (the roadblocks give it away as you yourself admit later in your post) and ALSO control the area but just cannot destroy it.

3: You don't have a combat engineer and a breacher in every squad. You have a breacher. Therefore a single breacher should be able to destroy a cache using the tools available to him.

4: You've misunderstood the term 'access' and if a 'lucky noob' makes it to a known cache with time to place a C4 then I think the defending team needs to take a long hard look at itself. It should not use the excuse of 'we should have been able to put a roadblock on top of the cache/barricade the cache in a room' to stop said 'lucky noob'.

5: The fact you used 'spawning' in an argument for 'realism' is honestly hilarious.

6: Using a small C4 to remove a roadblock is not easy, it is how it should be. The roadblock has served its purpose in that it forces the breacher to give away his position and to use up a C4 as well as giving insurgents more time to defend the cache/kill him.

7: The argument that enough people out digging explosives means there isn't enough on the other cache is very inaccurate and a downright lie. 50 people on a team and I've seen 2 insurgents out dig a breacher with ammo.

So:

"Roadblock isn't broken. It takes a long time to set up in correct position, takes a long time to shovel up, usually gives away cache location, and does very little to a well-organized BluFor team that has ammobox/bags."

If they actually worked like that then I would agree they weren't broken. But what you said is very far from the truth - often insurgents are able to use roadblocks prevent the destruction of a cache even when multiple squads (working together with ammo, explosives and often armour) know the exact location of a cache but are simply unable to destroy it.

The example Menuen gave above of a cache in the open resisting an entire BLUFOR team and artillery strike is evidence enough of this.

To reiterate my point: Roadblocks should not be a method of preventing cache destruction. At most they should simply be a way of hampering access to the general area of the cache.

[Armchairman_Mao]

Not ONE of your points holds up to accurate scrutiny.

1: Read some military doctrine before you look stupid, a Line of Communication is a transport/supply route (i.e. a road in PR) not a literal 'communication line'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_communication

2: In cases of roadblock abuse BluFor almost always knows exactly where the cache is (the roadblocks give it away as you yourself admit later in your post) and ALSO control the area but just cannot destroy it.

3: You don't have a combat engineer and a breacher in every squad. You have a breacher. Therefore a single breacher should be able to destroy a cache using the tools available to him.

4: You've misunderstood the term 'access' and if a 'lucky noob' makes it to a known cache with time to place a C4 then I think the defending team needs to take a long hard look at itself. It should not use the excuse of 'we should have been able to put a roadblock on top of the cache/barricade the cache in a room' to stop said 'lucky noob'.

5: The fact you used 'spawning' in an argument for 'realism' is honestly hilarious.

6: Using a small C4 to remove a roadblock is not easy, it is how it should be. The roadblock has served its purpose in that it forces the breacher to give away his position and to use up a C4 as well as giving insurgents more time to defend the cache/kill him.

7: The argument that enough people out digging explosives means there isn't enough on the other cache is very inaccurate and a downright lie. 50 people on a team and I've seen 2 insurgents out dig a breacher with ammo.

So:

"Roadblock isn't broken. It takes a long time to set up in correct position, takes a long time to shovel up, usually gives away cache location, and does very little to a well-organized BluFor team that has ammobox/bags."

If they actually worked like that then I would agree they weren't broken. But what you said is very far from the truth - often insurgents are able to use roadblocks prevent the destruction of a cache even when multiple squads (working together with ammo, explosives and often armour) know the exact location of a cache but are simply unable to destroy it.

The example Menuen gave above of a cache in the open resisting an entire BLUFOR team and artillery strike is evidence enough of this.

To reiterate my point: Roadblocks should not be a method of preventing cache destruction. At most they should simply be a way of hampering access to the general area of the cache.

That's because you have no idea what this game consists of.

1. there is no line of communication because people spawn from thin air from fob/rally(which you need to destroy, which you don't do with roadblocks, unless you are abusing the deployable mechanic...which is generally bannable offense in servers).

2. nope, roadblock means roadblock, it does not mean there is a cache inside. What I posted later was about how it can give away possible cache location(which can work backwards if idiots think roadblock == cache).

3. you have more than one squad. Tell rest of your team to stop jerking eachother in main.

4. You keep talking about roadblock on top of cache; I don't think you ever realized that roadblock dropped on top of cache has good chance of DESTROYING THE CACHE. Again, nothing wrong with blocking access to cache room.

5. I wasn't arguing for your half-assed idea of "realism." Or are you claiming that insurgents IRL have nothing but sticks and stones until they stumble upon a huge pile of weapons?

6. Removing roadblock is easy, refer to roadblock dev blog for ways to destroy it.

7. Prove it. Prove that 2 insurgents can outdig large C4.

It works exactly as I described; if you play BluFor only and see a ton of roadblock everywhere around cache, that means you took too long getting to the cache.
Believe it or not, it takes teamwork to set up multiple roadblocks, why shouldn't it take teamwork to destroy them?

Every time BluFor loses because they can't get cache defended by roadblocks, it's because at least one INS squad is dedicated to defending it. One small squad of BluFor isn't so special that it wins every time against same amount of defenders.

As for example of cache being in the open: it's working as intended.
Cache positions are not always remotely decent; if Insurgents built 7 roadblocks and you can't destroy even one, that's on you. Remember that good cache locations have walls/caves that you CANNOT destroy.

In worst case, BluFor has artillery to drop(not the wimpy mortar, which is removed anyway).

Accurate? Scrutiny? Not from you. You ignored too many things in my post.

[superhunty2]

That's because you have no idea what this game consists of.

1. there is no line of communication because people spawn from thin air from fob/rally(which you need to destroy, which you don't do with roadblocks, unless you are abusing the deployable mechanic...which is generally bannable offense in servers).

2. nope, roadblock means roadblock, it does not mean there is a cache inside. What I posted later was about how it can give away possible cache location(which can work backwards if idiots think roadblock == cache).

3. you have more than one squad. Tell rest of your team to stop jerking eachother in main.

4. You keep talking about roadblock on top of cache; I don't think you ever realized that roadblock dropped on top of cache has good chance of DESTROYING THE CACHE. Again, nothing wrong with blocking access to cache room.

5. I wasn't arguing for your half-assed idea of "realism." Or are you claiming that insurgents IRL have nothing but sticks and stones until they stumble upon a huge pile of weapons?

6. Removing roadblock is easy, refer to roadblock dev blog for ways to destroy it.

7. Prove it. Prove that 2 insurgents can outdig large C4.

It works exactly as I described; if you play BluFor only and see a ton of roadblock everywhere around cache, that means you took too long getting to the cache.
Believe it or not, it takes teamwork to set up multiple roadblocks, why shouldn't it take teamwork to destroy them?

Every time BluFor loses because they can't get cache defended by roadblocks, it's because at least one INS squad is dedicated to defending it. One small squad of BluFor isn't so special that it wins every time against same amount of defenders.

As for example of cache being in the open: it's working as intended.
Cache positions are not always remotely decent; if Insurgents built 7 roadblocks and you can't destroy even one, that's on you. Remember that good cache locations have walls/caves that you CANNOT destroy.

In worst case, BluFor has artillery to drop(not the wimpy mortar, which is removed anyway).

Accurate? Scrutiny? Not from you. You ignored too many things in my post.

You really are ignorant accusing me of not knowing 'what the game consists of'.

1: Roads from a FOB or from a main is an LoC? That is what a roadblock is intended to block? Not a weapons cache - this entire concept is PR players exploiting it.

2: Idiots think roadblock = cache? Right then.

3: Multiple squads working together with armour, with explosives can still be stumped by roadblocks - read my/other people's examples! How can you possibly argue that this is beneficial for the game?!

4: There is an issue with blocking a cache in a room, that's the very point! And skilled roadblock 'placers' can put them on caches without destroying them, certainly if underground or in a pool etc.

5: 'Half arsed idea of realism', please humour me while I go back to my day job of doing this for real. Reading Wikipedia about the difference between a T-72 and a T-72B doesn't make you impressive.

6: It wasn't easy, apparently its been made easier this patch because the DEVs realise there was an issue. They listened to the majority, not the confused minority like yourself.

7: They can out dig a breacher, that's what I said. Did you not have your reading glasses on?

You also didn't read that artillery often doesn't work, as Menuen pointed out... I agree with your point about caves etc. Some caches should be hard, some should be easy. What shouldn't happen is people be allowed/enabled to make what would be easy caches impossible by using a building mechanic.

And don't tell me I ignored bits in your post when I countered every single one! Please, now go back to your anime comics.

PS. I don't even know why I'm bothering to win this argument with you when I have better things to do, I guess just because its easy.

[potatochan]

chinese cartoons*

[Mineral]

As potato is doing, lighten up the mood fellas. Take a break and come back with a cool head No need to get personal.

[Armchairman_Mao]

You really are ignorant accusing me of not knowing 'what the game consists of'.

1: Roads from a FOB or from a main is an LoC? That is what a roadblock is intended to block? Not a weapons cache - this entire concept is PR players exploiting it.

2: Idiots think roadblock = cache? Right then.

3: Multiple squads working together with armour, with explosives can still be stumped by roadblocks - read my/other people's examples! How can you possibly argue that this is beneficial for the game?!

4: There is an issue with blocking a cache in a room, that's the very point! And skilled roadblock 'placers' can put them on caches without destroying them, certainly if underground or in a pool etc.

5: 'Half arsed idea of realism', please humour me while I go back to my day job of doing this for real. Reading Wikipedia about the difference between a T-72 and a T-72B doesn't make you impressive.

6: It wasn't easy, apparently its been made easier this patch because the DEVs realise there was an issue. They listened to the majority, not the confused minority like yourself.

7: They can out dig a breacher, that's what I said. Did you not have your reading glasses on?

You also didn't read that artillery often doesn't work, as Menuen pointed out... I agree with your point about caves etc. Some caches should be hard, some should be easy. What shouldn't happen is people be allowed/enabled to make what would be easy caches impossible by using a building mechanic.

And don't tell me I ignored bits in your post when I countered every single one! Please, now go back to your anime comics.

PS. I don't even know why I'm bothering to win this argument with you when I have better things to do, I guess just because its easy.

You don't, because you most likely never driven Logi before. (btw, BluFor tends to have chopper-dropped crates too, roadblocks do not work for obvious reasons)

I'm not accusing you; I'm just telling you my conclusion based on what you post.

If you are wondering why Roadblocks are here; I already told you before: some caches are in the open...Roadblocks represent makeshift defenses(very professionally made ones).

1. Roads? People drive on roads now? PR has very little penalty for people to drive offroad.

2. Yep, you are not even trying to argue here.

3. That's just your claim; what I have seen is the exact opposite: by the time armour rolled in(especially those with grenade launcher), there isn't many insurgents alive; at most 5 minutes later(because apparently you can request kits off APC, who would have thought?), roadblocks are gone. As you have claimed, you only saw insurgents outdig a breacher.

4. So what? Again, if you let people put roadblocks on top of cache(trial and error) then you are too slow. Also, blocking access to cache can hurt insurgents slightly.

5. And I graduated off top of my class in NSWC with 500+ confirmed kills. /s You are not even trying to argue against the real issue here; I'm seeing a pattern here, you are arguing for the sake of arguing now that you can't debunk any of my points. Face it, if you were doing anything "for real" then you would have found creative solution to the problem.

6. You are the confused minority here; don't you ever forget that. If you want to know who the majorities are: look at the 20+ pages thread about turret traverse. If you can't run up and stick a C4 onto the roadblock without dying repeatedly, you are doing it wrong(area not secured)...you have many tools to help accomplishing that task, such as suppressive fire from squad or smoke...etc.

7. Then your c4 is too small for the job; find bigger C4 from friendly APC or crate. Or find more breachers, mumble SQL channel isn't just for music spam. If you are on USA side, SMAW has HEDP round.

Artillery does work; it doesn't work when you drop it 100m away, though. Every artillery strike I witnessed has always been able to bring down at least some roadblocks.

Nope, you still didn't read it. Unless you just forgot about the fact that most buildings have no doors.

P.S. - you are really deluded if you thought you were any close to winning with your sorry excuse for argument.
I'm always watching them Chinese Cartoons, making you look bad in "argument" is just sideshow to my entertainment.

[superhunty2]

I'm arguing for the sake of arguing?! Says the guy who started it with his personal response to a legitimate post and also just patrols these feedback threads disagreeing with every single one of them because it makes him feel like Billy Big Bollocks.

If you actually read and disagreed with the initial recommendations I made (which you haven't, you've only focussed on the gristle before the meat...) then we could have a reasonable discussion. Grow up chap.

[Raklodder]

Building five layers of roadblocks inside a house at the stairs is a clear case of abuse but I don't mind it.

[Armchairman_Mao]

I'm arguing for the sake of arguing?! Says the guy who started it with his personal response to a legitimate post and also just patrols these feedback threads disagreeing with every single one of them because it makes him feel like Billy Big Bollocks.

If you actually read and disagreed with the initial recommendations I made (which you haven't, you've only focussed on the gristle before the meat...) then we could have a reasonable discussion. Grow up chap.

You are just grasping at straws here(not to mention you are still wrong) by trying to drag other threads into this(seriously, how desperate are you?).

As for your initial recommendation, I didn't post much about it because it's absolute dogs**t.

- Fix 1: Prevent roadblocks being placed within a set distance of caches - remember this is to hamper access to them, not entirely prevent their destruction

- Fix 2: Prevent roadblocks from being placed inside buildings. Roadblocks should be used to block roads and access to compounds, not to make buildings (or even rooms!) impossible to enter themselves

- Fix 3: Prevent stacking of multiple roadblocks

- Fix 4: One small C4 stick carried by a breacher should be able to destroy a roadblock entirely, not just down to a rebuildable state

1. That makes cache in the open extremely vulnerable again. Why can't roadblock be built below cache?(IIRC the radius does not care about height)

2. I already mentioned the fact that there are very few doors in-game where IRL there would be tons of doors. (simulating breaching charge with C4 sticks; and closed door with small roadblock)

3. Stacking of multiple roadblocks do not work...as long as they are within C4 explosion radius, they all go down at once.

4. So a breacher, alone, should easily destroy something that is supposed to NOT be easily destroyed? Again, use bigger C4 if you want to destroy the roadblock.

[Airsoft]

You seem....familiar