The Conflict/Army Realism Issue Vs Political Correctness

[waffenbaum]

This is kind of hard to explain, but it's clear that the mod deals with the realism of modern era urban, naval and air fighting and everything involved. But the maps and conflicts are all fabricated. While it might be a "parody" of (or at least heavily inspired by) the Iraq war, it's similarities are so great that it's hard to dismiss. I know that people will often refer to the MEC's as Iraqis rather then anything else. I realize that this is not the developers wish to turn the game into a Desert Combat clone, but I think it would only be right to make the game more "realistic" in terms of mirroring todays actual real life conflicts. Take the turn from make-believe and base the maps on real middle eastern cities where actual fighting takes or took place, and name the operations and cities accordingly, at least as a gesture that we recognize that this is as real as it gets without actually enlisting and shipping off. There are lots of photographic material available that would enable mappers to recreate actual towns (As far as the current middle eastern maps go, they are good, but they have slight arfificial feel to them) I know that this might be very well undoable, because of the sensitivity of the subject, but as long as the aim is realism, I think the cause is just.

[Wolfmaster]

yeah, after all it's really happening ísn't it? the cause is indeed just. i say do it.

[3FJ_Werner]

There are lots of photographic material available that would enable mappers to recreate actual towns (As far as the current middle eastern maps go, they are good, but they have slight arfificial feel to them)

Wouldn't mind if you post links, i might try to start mapping for BF2

[waffenbaum]

Below are some reference pictures of Baghdad, one of the most beautiful cities the middle east has to offer. I was thinking they might be useful if anyone decided to have a go at mapping real locations for the game. The images are big, so they are presented as links.

Baghdad from a satillite view

Even closer examination of Baghdad inner city

Airborne soldier taking a look at the outskirts of Baghdad

The beautiful war monuments of the Baghdad highway, supposedly near the airport

APC in front of the aforementioned monument

A lone chopper patrols the Baghdad air before nightfall

[Figisaacnewton]

I say make it as realistic as possible. Screw political correctness. It obviously has no place in anything attempting to realistically replicate modern combat. As far as I am concerned, political correctness and realism are opposites at this point.

[waffenbaum]

Convoy entering along Baghdad main highway (I personally would go total apeshit if this was included)

Setting up a road block, notice the WolksWagen

Two soldiers in front of a typical middle class house

The bustling marketplace in the lower quaters of Baghdad, hardly able to manouver in due to the narrow streets and sharp turns

[Super62]

Go for total realism, I don't care about pollitical correctness. Thats what EA is for. If people get affended by it than they don't have to play it. There is a game called Kuma war that has the actual battles with all the real buildings and units etc. I would personally like to see the taking of the Saddam Airport, Objective Curly, and maybe Falliuja http://kumawar.com/

[3FJ_Werner]

Thanks waffenbaum! especially the sattelite pics are awesome.

[Psycho_Sam]

What about Call Of Duty, Medal Of Honour etc.. There are countless games based on real life events! I dont see why Battlefield should be any different to those just beacuse they are modern day events. I say go realism!!

[waffenbaum]

Victory Sword Monument
A closer detail of the "Crossed swords" victory monument in Baghdad, the round objects are helmets collected from Iranian soldiers after their defeat and used as a part of the structure, they also double as speed bumps, to add to the humiliation

__________________________________________________________________
The Martyr's Monument in Baghdad, Iraq, is dedicated to those who died in the eight-year war that Iraq fought with Iran. Conflict between the two countries erupted in 1980 and ended in 1988.

Two differently sized halves of onion shaped balls make up the memorial

Memorial 2

Memorial 3


Mansur Street at high noon
The busy mansur street is one of the most populated in Baghdad, and is as such a vital defensive posistion for any defender.


Satilite View of inner Baghdad, MAGNIFIED
Yet another closeup at the inner city

[BrokenArrow]

im all for realistic senarios, Political correctness is softening up society and MAKING things touchy subjects, thats not how it should be.

anyway i like the idea of realistic maps... keep up the good ideas waffen.

BTW waffen dunno if you saw it but in your earlier siege of vilyuy (spelling???) i tried my hand at making a story from the POV of a US marine to go along with youre earlier story. dunno how good mine is but i think that the whole soldier POV story is a good idea. check it out if you get a chance (and havnt already)

[Wolfmaster]

one thing you have to keep in min though is size. even at 64player size you're not gonna get whole baghdad on the map. it's just too big. and the smaller size is also what makes the towns less realistic imo.

[waffenbaum]

I know that man, luckily the whole city has so many different styled areas that you could easily make two different maps based on it because of the sheer size, not to mention the map/player scale would come in handy. The only problem is choosing what areas to do. Suburban middle class neighborhood, narrow market streets, hotels, even the giant Mosque in the center.

[Wolfmaster]

make a whole map out of Saddam's palace...

[waffenbaum]

Which one?

But seriously, that'd make a great map. Of course, none of his palaces would be big enough to be a whole map in it's own right, but if his royal gardens and the local upscale quarter was included, that'd be one great map.

[Wolfmaster]

yeah. and maybe if the devs could code in NPC's you could have saddam in his room and the us objective would be to kill him and the mec objective would be to protect him.

[waffenbaum]

More like, tryig to escort him to a drop zone. They didn't KILL Saddam, remember?

Anyway, the geezer was hiding in a hole at the time, so unless we bend the rules of reality, we gotta deal with dragging his hairy behind up from the rabbit hole and sending him off to interrogation.

[Wolfmaster]

ah well it doesn't have to be that real...... i'd much rather shoot him.

[HarbingerCMT]

Waffen has a great idea and hope the PR team will give it a try. You don't have to model an entire city or an entire battle for that matter. Small force actions as a part of a greater unseen whole could be great fun...and after all that's what its all about in the end - Fun