Civilians and emplacements

[Fir3w411]

Today I played insurgency on Fallujah doing APC. The insurgent team was full of civilians. Every time I'd call out something for my gunner it'd be a civilian almost surely.

One thing I noticed today is that civilians get two things: shovels and the ability to build emplacements. Why?

Seriously, the civilians can build an SPG and dig it, and you can't shoot them whilst they do so. So you look over for two seconds to help friendlies on the cache right beside you and the SPG is manned by that same civilian.

As for placing emplacements, it is absolutely ridiculous. Two civilians were trying to pull a Bluedrake on us by taking out their phones and tried placing a roadblock on us but failed thankfully.

I think it'd make sense to remove shove and emplacement building from civlians because it is really exploitable.

[UTurista]

the civilians can build an SPG and dig it, and you can't shoot them whilst they do so.

Indeed this seems a problem.

Two civilians were trying to pull a Bluedrake on us by taking out their phones and tried placing a roadblock on us but failed thankfully

Most servers agree that this is a lame exploit, a simple report should be enough to make those griefers to be kicked/banned.

[Acecombatzer0]

Seriously, the civilians can build an SPG and dig it, and you can't shoot them whilst they do so.

What are you talking about? It just shoots confetti

...but seriously though agree with OP

[Cavazos]

I think it would be better if admins kicked those players rather than taking their building capabilities. Being able to build easily is an insurgent strength. Personally I haven't encountered these problems or noticed team mates doing them.

[Fir3w411]

How does it make any sense that a "civilian" would build an SPG that's meant to kill my vehicle and infantry right in my face and I can't shoot them?

[viirusiiseli]

Cavazos;2114491']I think it would be better if admins kicked those players rather than taking their building capabilities. Being able to build easily is an insurgent strength. Personally I haven't encountered these problems or noticed team mates doing them.

Yes, server admins will surely take care of this problem! You cannot possibly believe they would have the time or motivation to enforce such things.

Easier would be to make the shovel an illegal weapon just like epipen/resusciate. This way ROE would just allow you to shoot them if they're building or trying to while maintaining the no kit/civilian shovel.

[DesertFox284]

Why not just take it this way: Wait for him to get on the spg (it has 15 second fire delay anyways) and then kill him. If he is waiting for you to turn your back you get out and arrest the civilian.

Or you could just shoot the civilian shoveling the spg and be done with it. Yeah, it's not realistic but the penalty for shooting a civi seems low anyways. Most of the ins rounds I play nowadays I run around as a civi getting martyred like there's no tomorrow because people don't care about penalties.

[viirusiiseli]

Why not just take it this way: Wait for him to get on the spg (it has 15 second fire delay anyways) and then kill him. If he is waiting for you to turn your back you get out and arrest the civilian.

Or you could just shoot the civilian shoveling the spg and be done with it. Yeah, it's not realistic but the penalty for shooting a civi seems low anyways. Most of the ins rounds I play nowadays I run around as a civi getting martyred like there's no tomorrow because people don't care about penalties.

5min penalty is just perfect for making a cup of tea while waiting.

[KillJoy[Fr]]

Indeed this seems a problem.

This is not a problem since they are collaborators with the task to help the insurgency.

[WeeD-KilleR]

Why not just take it this way: Wait for him to get on the spg (it has 15 second fire delay anyways) and then kill him. If he is waiting for you to turn your back you get out and arrest the civilian.

a) that would require you not to engage a danger as soon as you see it. They are shoveling a weapon that can be a threat to the asset I man. So I want it gone now. And not continue watching around and coming to it back later.

and b) with 2 civis the system can be abused to shit. One can shovel, the other can man the spg. Now you risk killing the civi shoveling the SPG while you shoot the guy in the SPG. No really ideal.

Or you could just shoot the civilian shoveling the spg and be done with it. Yeah, it's not realistic but the penalty for shooting a civi seems low anyways. Most of the ins rounds I play nowadays I run around as a civi getting martyred like there's no tomorrow because people don't care about penalties.

And I am fairly sure that killing civi can still have a big impact on the game. Caches appear way later, the rounds can last longer and respawns take for ever.

;2114612']This is not a problem since they are collaborators with the task to help the insurgency.

Then I would be allowed to shoot the guys. Because if you help insurgents, you are within the RoE and can kill them without punishment IRL. Therefor it is an problem, because it is reflected wrong in the game.

The best solution has been posted by viirusiiseli. Dont remove the shovel, just make it an 'illegal' weapon.

[SkyEmperor]

Or, you could just disable fixed weapons for civilians, or civis could get killed without any penalties if they help shoveling something.

[Fir3w411]

you could just shoot the civilian shoveling the spg and be done with it.

Most of the ins rounds I play nowadays I run around as a civi getting martyred like there's no tomorrow because people don't care about penalties.

Nice thinking.

Anyway, this a giant issue you can't just shrug off. Think about it.

What WeeD said is precisely the issue. It's too easy to exploit. Two civilians dig the SPG then one jumps on it and kills you or you kill the SPG and the civilian.

Given literally anyone and everyone on the INS team can be civilian all at once with no delay makes it too problematic and easy to exploit.

[crazygamelover]

Given literally anyone and everyone on the INS team can be civilian all at once with no delay makes it too problematic and easy to exploit.

cough2minutescough

[Nightingale]

cough2minutescough

Not if you use the ALT medic kit.

[crazygamelover]

Not if you use the ALT medic kit.

But that kit is limited, so my point still stands.

[Jacksonez__]

Not if you use the ALT medic kit.

what, you become civi instantly with alt-medic kit? :O

[Fir3w411]

But that kit is limited, so my point still stands.

The point is, anyone can become a civilian. Literally the entire team can be civi.

And it has happened - many, many times.

[crazygamelover]

The point is, anyone can become a civilian. Literally the entire team can be civi.

And it has happened - many, many times.

Any screenshots? Cause that actually sounds pretty hilarious.

[Nightingale]

But that kit is limited, so my point still stands.

We are good at getting around this problem.