Megas Casual Sound Modding

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Mineral
Retired PR Developer
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by Mineral »

well the beginning of the vid shows the good version right? for the Beryl?

BF2 indeed loads faster, but then again I doubt we kept everything the same so it's still advisable to test in PR. Given we are modding PR. Not BF2 anymore.

Get an SSD, my pr_edit (pr+ countless other mods ) loads in under a minute now :D Such a blessing from the +5min from before!

edit: also, if we volume batch all sounds, how that reintroduce dynamic range?
Last edited by Mineral on 2015-08-19 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Megagoth1702
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by Megagoth1702 »

[R-DEV]Mineral wrote:well the beginning of the vid shows the good version right? for the Beryl?

BF2 indeed loads faster, but then again I doubt we kept everything the same so it's still advisable to test in PR. Given we are modding PR. Not BF2 anymore.

Get an SSD, my pr_edit (pr+ countless other mods ) loads in under a minute now :D Such a blessing from the +5min from before!

edit: also, if we volume batch all sounds, how that reintroduce dynamic range?
No,
the video I showed ddeo shows mini beryl and the normal beryl. mini beryl has a brighter bang to it.

Thanks for the tip. I already have all mod-folders on SSDs. Still - BF2 content loads in 30 seconds, PR content takes 1:50. With PR content the editor crashes on certain vehicles and weapons when I try to use them. So 2 mins of loading wasted. :(

Batch editing will not introduce dynamic range into the sounds themselves, microdynamics (difference between the punch of the sound and the echo right after that) will stay the same. BUT it will open up headroom for new sounds that can be mixed with peaks and punch.

Also we can focus on macrodynamics, the bigger picture. Re-balance the game. I prepared a little example.
http://i.imgur.com/uQFb0J5.jpg

Many of these peaks you see would be at max volume in current PR (shots, explosions, vehicles at close distances all at max), but the way I set up this example there is still room for the really big things such as bigger explosions, as you can see. Funny - audio is such a tough topic to explain and I find pictures work best, heh.

Take a listen.

This means of course that in order to take full advantage of the won headroom many sounds will have to be re-made from scratch. I might do some, new community members might do some. If this "project quieter reality" works out I will post a guideline on how to create sounds that fit within the game's audio context.
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Mineral
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by Mineral »

I'd prefer on that last part to not always make new sounds but mostly work with Anders on keeping the current sound original sources from his archives and other sources. I will set my foot in the door as I'm 100% (personally, this is only my opinion) against another sound source rework for PR. Not again. The great majority of the community is extremely pleased with the sound sources from v1.0 and beyond and I'm not willing to risk changing that any time soon. Many of them are indeed not happy with the volumes and therefore I 100% back fixing that issue but new sound sources is not really on anyones wishlist for most sounds.

I might sound brute and unwilling to open my eyes but I'm not trust me :p I just don't want you or us to waste time or dedication or cause more problems then we can solve. I want a clear picture for both you and the community on what can be archived here.
Last edited by Mineral on 2015-08-19 16:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Megagoth1702
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by Megagoth1702 »

Your post does not sound unwilling at all. I understand the reasons and it makes me mad as hell knowing that this decision was done by people who don't undertand sound design and how audio works at all and now simply because people are USED to something there is no going back. None of the old sound guys (TwistedHelix, Jaymz, s0fad) would have approved this loudness and distortion madness.

There is a post by twistedhelix that is opposite of whats normal in PR rght now.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... post839319

This is where we are. And if this is what devs put their foot in the door for then there is nothing I can do about it. I tried explaining but humans are creatures of habit.

I find old PR sounded way better, had more character and more balanced volumes. Then anders came in with louder sounds and we all understand (if you read my posts) that louder = better in the short term. But at the end of the day the sounds can't stand their ground compared to higher quality material on equal loudness. (Again, my little M249 comparison but I could do it with any rifle.)

Here is some gameplay I recorded from 0.98
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9m_fwvHtcw

Community loves the current sounds you say? I just might prepare some "old/new" examples on equal loudness.

But I don't think I will in the near future. I am getting told left and right to stop wasting my time with PR and go somewhere where I don't have to defend the most basic principles of my trade. And if PR is not willing to change their sound radically (which is 100% needed) then there is nothing I can help with.
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Mineral
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by Mineral »

I don't have an issue with all sounds in PR changing or work being on done on them.

I'm against them changing source material, the material that the sound is based on. No matter if it this is a library, video, own recording or something else. As this is where I believe 1.0 sounds are better in then 0.98. The sources become of much higher quality thanks to Anders who spend money and effort getting proper libraries and source files.

I'm not good at judging quality on sounds editing. I'll leave that up to people like you to tell me :) As you for example did for the volumes you explained that that way is better and I agree. Needs work for sure! I sure like Anders his editing work but it can probably be better or different. I'm not really capable of telling in a meaningful way.

But what I and most of the community can is judging the sound source. If it sound anything like the real thing, or if it sounds fake, or to gamey, etc etc. We can say good/no good. So yes, I don't want to see all new sound sources for future releases. As the current ones are simply said good. Otherwise there would have been complaints in general which we haven't really gotten much off.

For me personally the ideal plan looks like this:

-the volume fixing work: lowering all current volumes to one that is deemed as a better one. This will solve a lot of issues and make the game more comfortable without having to go to 5% in the settings. And allows for future sounds to be better.
-all new sounds can therefore experience the proper way with the dynamic range and all :)
-all existing sounds can be re-done using the old sources if they is people willing to do this work. This will require the assistance of Anders I assume.
-the sounds of which the sources were already disliked can be redone.

I suppose I mostly differ from your POV on the 3rd point :) One of the reasons is not cause I think you can't make equally or better sources. But just like with previous sound guys on the team(not just anders), they leave, they are LOA, they retire (just like any other position really) and you end up with nobody to continue the work or finish it. And with broken stuff in between. And when the next guy comes along he says again he can do it better and the circle starts again. We are now at a point where we have an entire sound library completed. I'm not willing to give that up that easily knowing what problems can come from it. There are simply not enough people doing sound modding to do it properly for a HUGE game such as PR.

But again, I'm not the only DEV around. It's just not all are vocal on the forum and I am. I'm just giving you my perspective. If all others things I should shut up and let all new sound sources come in then I'll just sit in a corner and nod my head :) Time will tell. But for now I see nothing wrong with you continuing to show your work here and trying to prove us what is better then what we have. And I hope you continue to do so. A few posts of mine should not influence that.
Last edited by Mineral on 2015-08-19 18:58, edited 3 times in total.
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Megagoth1702
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by Megagoth1702 »

Thanks for your response. I appreciate your opinion.


Sources are an issue? Really? BF3 BF4 anybody?

It's funny, mats tells me that the sounds I found "might be from the same library" but there is zero chance. Read the first few lines here.
Chuck Russom is an important guy for gun sounds.
Chuck Russom Special: Using Sound Libraries | Designing Sound
It isn’t very creative grabbing a stock asset from a library and using as is. And I would not consider this sound design. If I was going to just use stock sounds for my projects, I might as well hire a high school kid to do my work for me while I lay out on a beach somewhere sipping drinks with little umbrellas in them. Actually, maybe that isn’t such as bad idea…..
Every half decend sound designer knows that you can't just copy paste sounds, someone will recognize them and you will look like a cheat.

I have several professional sound libraries.
The Recordist:
-Gunscapes
-Guntales
-Bullets HD 2
-Explosions

Boom Library:
-assault rifles

Then a few more from sound effect web sites but I mostly use boom library & gunscapes by the recordist. You will not get better sources. Every half decend sound designer can work an army of weapons off of that.

The only times I used other people's work was for modding DCS:A-10 when I replaced the tank sounds with Tango Romeos arma sounds but at least I gave full credit in the config files.

I doubt anders and me will have a good working party since we have history. He also stated on the Squad forums that he has a very special taste of how firefights should sound and he accepts no discussions about that. I PM'd him about PR sound a few weeks ago when I started modding PR again, no response. So I won't put any effort into working with him. A guy who replaces the UK professionally recorded landrover with BF3 sounds, then tells me that it's from a real landrover and K_Rivers dad says "it sounds real"? Jesus...

Anyway. With anders working full time on squad I was hoping to come in, clean up and lay groundwork for the future sound guys but I gotta think about it again.
Navo
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by Navo »

Well now, I'm sure this thread will end well. :D
UTurista
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by UTurista »

I can only assume there will be "Megas Soundmod v0.1 Announcement Trailer" quite soon.

Right or wrong its easy to judge...
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Dont question the wikipedia! Just because it reports different things on different languages does not make it unreliable source!
camo
PR:BF2 Developer
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by camo »

I think go for it mega.

If you can lower all of the gun sounds and then gradually start working on replacing them with proper sounds i think that'd be awesome.
But it's quite a large task, many people get burned out and then disappear. Just don't do that.
:mrgreen:
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Megagoth1702
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by Megagoth1702 »

Alright then. I have no obligations until October so why not.

I created a fork of PR and am now changing sounds by hand to make them fit. Automatic batch-changing does not work as well as hoped.

It's paying off. When I shoot around the bullet impacts (which are still at old values) are really standing out.

There is a major problem though, level ambient sounds are not only at different volumes within the files themselves (one ambient loop is louder than another) also the maps use different volume values all over the place. So I will have to go through all maps and re-balance the sounds. Pain in the ***. My current little showcase would be on Saarema.

I think many distant sounds need a re-work. They lack bass. An LMG firing in the distance could soundsomething like this when I'm done. Note that the subtle bass really sells the feeling of something powerful shooting at distance.
Last edited by Megagoth1702 on 2015-10-11 10:08, edited 2 times in total.
mries
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by mries »

Are you still working on sounds for PR Megagoth?

Was wondering if Anders is still active as a PR Dev because he is in the Squad team and/or if there are still other sound guys active in the PR dev?

I liked the dedication and work you did earlier but then it got all quiet.
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Ulysses
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Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Post by Ulysses »

Megagoth, are you still around?
Listening to your sound examples and explanations and playing Squad really ruined PRs sound for me...
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