Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

[viirusiiseli]

The current turn rate makes you unable to hit targets in smaller view distance maps that are within your angle constraint.

https://youtu.be/3M_vPQ0pjxE?t=2m36s

[RobyVan]

The current turn rate makes you unable to hit targets in smaller view distance maps that are within your angle constraint.

https://youtu.be/3M_vPQ0pjxE?t=2m36s

Poor chickens

[viirusiiseli]

At the edge of the viewdistance and missile can't even turn to the tank.

[Mats391]

Those missiles seem to turn just fine towards tank. First one might have hit a building before and second you look away, no idea where it hit but trail points towards tank.
Maybe could increase yaw rates, pitch is fine.

[viirusiiseli]

Those missiles seem to turn just fine towards tank. First one might have hit a building before and second you look away, no idea where it hit but trail points towards tank

No they obviously dont, or they would've hit. The first one was a miss, yes, turning isn't to be blamed on that but the next ones I had my aim right on the tank and it doesn't track all the way. You can see the arch of the missile turning is like 500m for around 60 degrees.

Look at 0:10, the missile hits left and above the tank by 20-50m because it takes the missile forever to turn.

Compare to pre-1.39 like how it should be and how it actually worked in lower VD maps. And if the missiles have such trouble turning to the edge of the gun angle in Beirut, imagine how it is in shijia valley?

It's a game for the love of god, engaging/view distance can be really low and the missiles should turn so that you can actually hit stuff. It's either that or the maps need huge viewdistance and we all know thats not possible FPS wise.

Youtube vid

[Rabbit]

Stop being a UAV.

[Rhino]

I do think missiles could use a bit more pitch and yaw, especially since you need a direct hit to kill a target and these missiles are very agile in r/l to be able to do just that.

[viirusiiseli]

Stop being a UAV.

I sexually identify as a UAV and there is literally nothing you can do about it.

And yeah, you do need direct hits and there is barely any splash for infantry either. All were talking about is having agile missiles just so a gunner can hit what he can see.

Edit: Nearly forgot, any idea on why the attack heli missiles seem to lose their ability to turn at longer ranges? Like you can make it turn normally up to 500-800m, after that it starts to turn really sluggish?

[Mats391]

The second one might have been shot too far to the side. There is an issue with the missiles that no turn rate can fix. If the target is behind the projectile as it leaves the weapon, it cannot see it and thus cannot target on it. The only real way to solve it that i know of would be to have projectiles spawn facing the target. That would look quite stupid tho as the missile would launch in a 90? angle from the chopper.

[viirusiiseli]

The second one might have been shot too far to the side. There is an issue with the missiles that no turn rate can fix. If the target is behind the projectile as it leaves the weapon, it cannot see it and thus cannot target on it. The only real way to solve it that i know of would be to have projectiles spawn facing the target. That would look quite stupid tho as the missile would launch in a 90? angle from the chopper.

Ehh... Gonna rant a little bit first. This always happens. A change is made, said change doesn't work. Go complain on forums, get told it cannot be fixed/thats just how it is. When it worked before.

The second one in my video was actually not in the angle that the missile just goes straight. When I zoom out you can clearly see the arched trail of the missile, it didn't go straight. Just did not turn in time, which is why the tank wasn't hit.

Yes, the missiles would fire straight but that was only when you were firing at the very far side of your angle, that's fine. No problem, you just turn and engage. Video below shows that. Thats not the problem.



That is understandable, it's a game limitation and so what. The real problem is, that when you engage to your far side where the missile doesn't go straight forward due to losing angle, the missile itself does not turn fast enough for it to hit the target. It rather does the arc you can see in my video. The missile just needs to be as agile as it was in 0.98 and there wont be such a problem.

Here you can see it. This is 0.98 missiles and TBH, that's how it should be.

[Mats391]

Ehh... Gonna rant a little bit first. This always happens. A change is made, said change doesn't work. Go complain on forums, get told it cannot be fixed/thats just how it is. When it worked before.

Not sure what you are on about. This dead-angle always was there and locking onto targets in that never worked.
Also just because it worked before it does not mean it is what we want. The change to reduce turn rates was made to make the uav-style (like rabbit pointed out) of using choppers less effective. At that it was highly successful as we can see here

[PatrickLA_CA]

Well why don't you just remove attack helicopters then?
They have been nerfed to oblivion which makes them extremely unrealistic. They are slower than an APC, fragile as a civilan car, and now you have to be flying low and looking directly at your target to hit them.

The only way an attack helicopter can still be useful against the enemy now is when the enemy is very dumb and can't hit the helicopter.

In a best case scenario the helicopters are to be used from distance where the enemy can't hit them with anything but SAMs such as IRL but we all know that can't be done in PR because of the view distance limitations which now makes the CAS pilots fly lower and slower in order to hit their target which needs to be hit directly.

[Aleon]

Did you try turning the helicopter towards the target?

[viirusiiseli]

Not sure what you are on about. This dead-angle always was there and locking onto targets in that never worked.
Also just because it worked before it does not mean it is what we want. The change to reduce turn rates was made to make the uav-style (like rabbit pointed out) of using choppers less effective. At that it was highly successful as we can see here

You replying with stuff about the dead angle when the whole point is not about that, and saying it's not possible to change, as if that would somehow carry to the missile agility. That's what I'm on about.

You dont look closely enough at the video, which shows it's not about the dead angle but just about the missile not turning. The missile didn't go straight as would happen by shooting in the dead angle, like you suggested.

And the whole thing about removing angled attacks.. Why? It's not even the most effective way to engage. Is that supposed to be a nerf? Reducing turn rate of the missiles just for this purpose doesn't even make sense, since it makes any engaging style bad because the missiles dont turn fast enough for low-vd maps.

You're either using false points or playing stupid intentionally to not understand the point of the thread.

Though I'm pretty sure I'm just being trolled now so I'll stop posting.

[Mats391]

You replying with stuff about the dead angle when the whole point is not about that, and saying it's not possible to change, as if that would somehow carry to the missile agility. That's what I'm on about.

The second one might have been shot too far to the side. There is an issue with the missiles that no turn rate can fix.

I just suggested that it it might have been dead-angle. The trail could also have been from 1 shot. The video is shaky and hectic at that point, so hard to keep track. Nowhere did i say that it was or that having it turn is not possible. You are taking my words about un-fixable dead-angle and thing.

You dont look closely enough at the video, which shows it's not about the dead angle but just about the missile not turning. The missile didn't go straight as would happen by shooting in the dead angle, like you suggested.

Watched it again and i see the explosion in front of tank now. So yes, no dead-angle here.

And the whole thing about removing UAV-style flying... Why? It's not even the most effective way to engage. Reducing turn rate of the missiles just for this purpose doesn't even make sense, since it makes any engaging style bad because the missiles dont turn fast enough for low-vd maps.

It is the most annoying to be on receiving end. Having chopper above you constantly raining death is no fun. When the chopper keeps making attack runs similar to jets it is less frustrating as it leaves some room to breath and re-position. From my experience attacking targets in front you is not really a problem.
It also makes it rather hard to kill a chopper despite him being almost stationary. This kind of attack is often ended by guided AT or auto-cannons instead of AA. Both are not available to IDF on Beirut making it a prime example where this can be frustrating.
I guess another approach would be to increase damage of things like 50cals vs choppers and decrease effectiveness of flares w/o moving.

[[F|H]Zackyx]

The change to reduce turn rates was made to make the uav-style (like rabbit pointed out) of using choppers less effective. At that it was highly successful as we can see here

Viirus dont bother those limitation have been introduce to the game by design its not an accident as mats stated above.

Here we are again, trying to remove a "realistic play style" (uav-style) because of game play reasons.

In real life apache have been known to hover for extended period of time when they cant afford the luxury of orbiting around their target Gulf war, Operation Decisive Storm ...

Some videos the show that the UAV style is "realistic".

[Wadziu]

Here we go, another turn of our top beloved PR CAS whores on buffing their favorite fraging machine How about we also buff my favorite AA systems to realistic values so that I can erase you before you even come in range of your Hellfire missileses?

[[F|H]Zackyx]

Here we go, another turn of our top beloved PR CAS whores on buffing their favorite fraging machine How about we also buff my favorite AA systems to realistic values so that I can erase you before you even come in range of your Hellfire missileses?

Buffing ? right, look at the changes since .98...

But its really funny how those changes became more and more personal, 1 individual infantry player making you go out of your way to change deviation, prone firing delay ... And 3/4 cas players making you overhaul the CAS assets every patch.

I have to say i'm quite proud.

[viirusiiseli]

Here we go, another turn of our top beloved PR CAS whores on buffing their favorite fraging machine How about we also buff my favorite AA systems to realistic values so that I can erase you before you even come in range of your Hellfire missileses?

AAs have long since been able to lock helicopters that do not see you. You can see the lock BVR. I suggest you actually go play and try it out. Especially AAVs can fire at helis about 50-200m before they see him depending on the map. Do I have to make you a tutorial video?

Mats391;2117164']It is the most annoying to be on receiving end. Having chopper above you constantly raining death is no fun.

I rest my case.

[viirusiiseli]

edit: doublepost, remove