Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

[Brozef]

Can't you guys just re-introduce the BF2 Gunner missile cam that was super fun to get that close to your target and see it just before exploding.

[solidfire93]

i asked a question : why AIM-9 Air to Air missile been removed from Attack helis ?

the answer i got its was like a joke and stupid (no DEV answered this question) !! "they got removed to prevent CAS heli hunting each other and help out their team"

which ironically still when CAS helis spawns most of the time they try to search and take out each other so they can have no problem dealing with the ground target's

later the missiles are hard to turn in long range also that when you directly hit the target and still he's on the move and alive...

im not a CAS whore by any mean, but seriously why CAS helis are slow like snail's
i mean i can do better maneuvering with trans heli ffs !

sure barrel role and loop's with heli its not realistic but how come its fun for CAS to wait for 20 mint and then get shot down easily by a man-pad and have to wait for another 20

its Fun right ?!

[Jacksonez__]

People talk like flying CAS and getting kills is easy.Yeah, I tried it a few times and it was not easy. I dont evn fly CAS that often for obvious reasons, but I still think its too nerfed. You can't hover since HAT (and soon that SACLOS) destroys you instantly and lets not talk about other AA, AAVs, etc. IFV/APCs trying to kill you.

go try cas if you think its free frags.

[Rhino]

i asked a question : why AIM-9 Air to Air missile been removed from Attack helis ?

There where quite a few factors for this, the main one being that it is firstly extremal uncommon for most of the Attack Helis ingame to field any kind of air to air weapon on them, and some that say they are capable, have only ever had them fitted in testing. But on top of this, some of the Attack Helis ingame can't field any kind of air to air missile on them, at least not without some kinda bodge job

From a gameplay POV Attack Choppers spent more time hunting each other than they did actually supporting the ground troops, at least until the other sides Attack Heli was shot down, although in some cases yes this hasn't changed much since then, it has reduced it a bit with making it harder for them to engage each other.

People talk like flying CAS and getting kills is easy.

Not really about Attack Helis being easy platforms, more that in the right hands, they are totally devastating and game changing weapons, and we frankly do need to do a few things to help balance them out a little.

I should point out that we (the Devs), are not on a mission to nerf Attack Helis or anything like that, not even Mats although he may give the impression he is sometimes but that is mainly for trolling hehe. In v1.4 we are actually looking at a few things to improve them, and all helicopters for that matter. In fact this week we have started a project with the help of a new Python Script Mats has made that reads the true speed of a vehicle, to firstly see what our helicopters speeds are right now, and to bump that up to be far more realistic as right now, they are too slow and pretty much the entire team agrees on it (only a few have voted but more have voiced their opinions on Instant Messenger that they want it re-done):

We are also looking into one or two unique gameplay concepts for Attack Helis in v1.4 too

[viirusiiseli]

Rhino;2118470']There where quite a few factors for this, the main one being that it is firstly extremal uncommon for most of the Attack Helis ingame to field any kind of air to air weapon on them, and some that say they are capable, have only ever had them fitted in testing. But on top of this, some of the Attack Helis ingame can't field any kind of air to air missile on them, at least not without some kinda bodge job

From a gameplay POV Attack Choppers spent more time hunting each other than they did actually supporting the ground troops, at least until the other sides Attack Heli was shot down, although in some cases yes this hasn't changed much since then, it has reduced it a bit with making it harder for them to engage each other.



Not really about Attack Helis being easy platforms, more that in the right hands, they are totally devastating and game changing weapons, and we frankly do need to do a few things to help balance them out a little.

I should point out that we (the Devs), are not on a mission to nerf Attack Helis or anything like that, not even Mats although he may give the impression he is sometimes but that is mainly for trolling hehe. In v1.4 we are actually looking at a few things to improve them, and all helicopters for that matter. In fact this week we have started a project with the help of a new Python Script Pie has made that reads the true speed of a vehicle, to firstly see what our helicopters speeds are right now, and to bump that up to be far more realistic as right now, they are too slow and pretty much the entire team agrees on it (only a few have voted but more have voiced their opinions on Instant Messenger that they want it re-done):

We are also looking into one or two unique gameplay concepts for Attack Helis in v1.4 too

Right now there's an issue aswell with diving not increasing your speed, which makes hit-and-run type of attacks nearly impossible as you crawl away.

To be honest its quite horrible when you try to dive to gain speed but you only lose altitude. This only contributes to having to go for enemy helis before attacking ground targets.

I hope that gets changed back to how it was so that if you dive you can actually escape things.

[Mats391]

Right now there's an issue aswell with diving not increasing your speed, which makes hit-and-run type of attacks nearly impossible as you crawl away.

To be honest its quite horrible when you try to dive to gain speed but you only lose altitude. This only contributes to having to go for enemy helis before attacking ground targets.

I hope that gets changed back to how it was so that if you dive you can actually escape things.

We will look into that. We also want to make choppers having to care more about their speed and angles just like the Tiger has to. Meaning if you dive too fast or too steep you will crash into your target before killing it
Not sure when this will happen, but eventually it will. I hope. I also remember you offering your help to tweak the physics, we appreciate any help in case you are still considering it
Also if anyone wants to help with the speed gathering Rhino hinted at, shoot me a PM and i will hook you up.

[Rabbit]

I say very fast attack speed, medium health (1 AA missile/lat and you need to GTFO and rush back to base to try and beat the bleed) , keep nerfed missile attack and reduce spawn time. Get them to do quick in and out attacks and usually survive rather than just loiter around all day acting like a UAV.

[X-Alt]

I say very fast attack speed, medium health (1 AA missile/lat and you need to GTFO and rush back to base to try and beat the bleed) , keep nerfed missile attack and reduce spawn time. Get them to do quick in and out attacks and usually survive rather than just loiter around all day acting like a UAV.

The reason people enjoy CAS is because they can do this.





Not this

[dalianplant[x64]]

I say very fast attack speed, medium health (1 AA missile/lat and you need to GTFO and rush back to base to try and beat the bleed) , keep nerfed missile attack and reduce spawn time. Get them to do quick in and out attacks and usually survive rather than just loiter around all day acting like a UAV.

Thank god you are not an R-DEV anymore.With that mentality and low amount of game knowledge regarding attack helicopters/attack helicopter threats you would just ruin the mod even more.

[Brozef]

How about you guys remove the LG mode? It would definitely force more team work.

[PatrickLA_CA]

How about you guys remove the LG mode? It would definitely force more team work.

Then might as well remove choppers without cannons too because it is a very rare occurrence to get a valid laze when playing without a spotter of your own because a lot of people don't know how to place lazes down. Then there are those who can place lazes down but can't tell you what and where they are lazing. The third kind are those who are dead silent and don't really know that you can help them take out that tank on the hill that is mowing them down.
Of course, I'm not saying that you won't get any lazes at all because there are also a lot of people who can laze properly.

This makes CAS useless compared to other assets because if you take a look at tanks for example they can always follow the infantry around or look for targets because they are down there on the ground. But you can't do this with a CAS chopper or a jet for reasons stated in this thread as well as for people complaining about the UAV style of operating CAS choppers. Compared to the RL counterparts, at least the UK Apaches, they don't operate lower than 2000 ft in Afghanistan where they are safe from RPGs and small arms fire which can't be done in PR due to the view distances.

[Navo]

Then might as well remove choppers without cannons too because it is a very rare occurrence to get a valid laze when playing without a spotter of your own because a lot of people don't know how to place lazes down. Then there are those who can place lazes down but can't tell you what and where they are lazing. The third kind are those who are dead silent and don't really know that you can help them take out that tank on the hill that is mowing them down.
Of course, I'm not saying that you won't get any lazes at all because there are also a lot of people who can laze properly.

This makes CAS useless compared to other assets because if you take a look at tanks for example they can always follow the infantry around or look for targets because they are down there on the ground. But you can't do this with a CAS chopper or a jet for reasons stated in this thread as well as for people complaining about the UAV style of operating CAS choppers. Compared to the RL counterparts, at least the UK Apaches, they don't operate lower than 2000 ft in Afghanistan where they are safe from RPGs and small arms fire which can't be done in PR due to the view distances.

Give CAS the capability to lase as well.

[viirusiiseli]

Give CAS the capability to lase as well.

lol









surely we're joking here guys?






...right?

[Navo]

lol









surely we're joking here guys?






...right?

Meh, just brainstorming how to make CAS less derp as it is now without making it OP. Remove LG, add lazer designater, improve helicopter handling instead of making them slow as shit for 'balance', improve CAS missiles.

Result: more milsim, CAS way more survivable and reliant on pilot skill, gunner's job a bit more boring and reliant on PR's herp derp lazes (though as we can see in that video that may not be too far from reality), maybe.

Or we could just have Mats nerf CAS and watch the Based forums burn

[PatrickLA_CA]

Yeah but the problem is that lazing from a helicopter doesn't work, take the Kiowa or any USMC chopper for example and you'll see. You have to be completely still.

[X-Alt]

What if helicopters like the Hind and Havok were SACLOS? Rather than nerfing turn rates, force the East-bloc helicopters to guide it to the target the whole way through. Plus, a fix for the Hind speed would be nice, it's getting a bit ridiculous.

[Jacksonez__]

What if helicopters like the Hind and Havok were SACLOS? Rather than nerfing turn rates, force the East-bloc helicopters to guide it to the target the whole way through. Plus, a fix for the Hind speed would be nice, it's getting a bit ridiculous.

How on earth is this speed calculated? I calculated ~190 km/h (Havoc speedometer was like 410-430). Isn't Havoc real life flight speed (not dive) like 300 km/h?

5 seconds
250 meters
50 m/s

14,5 seconds
600 m
41 m/s

Then I dived 700 m, took ~11,5-12 seconds. I had max velocity 830 (whatever unit it is), lowest velocity 420 at finish line. That would be around 220 km/h average speed according to basic maths. That dive was steep AF.

idk since nerfing CAS is a growing trend, devs might as well nerf it deep in oblivion.

[Rhino]

What if helicopters like the Hind and Havok were SACLOS? Rather than nerfing turn rates, force the East-bloc helicopters to guide it to the target the whole way through. Plus, a fix for the Hind speed would be nice, it's getting a bit ridiculous.

When we where implementing the Zhi-9WA with HJ-8s, which are Wire Guided SACLOS missiles, we did look at it again but decided that it was far too hard to hit the target with it and when with the "point and click, TV / Laser Guided" method all the other choppers have.

There are quite a few choppers ingame which should have that system so we could look into it, but it would also mean the attack helis where no longer mirror balanced if the Havok and Zhi-10W got it.

How on earth is this speed calculated?

Totally ignore the BF2 HUD speed, its totally off, hence why Mats has made a new python script to read the true speed for testing.

[Rabbit]

-snip-

And it is why every other person hates cas and it can end up with getting a ridiculous kdr. In my opinion for what PR is and the map sizes available there is no good way to make cas realistic and balanced.

;2118499']Thank god you are not an R-DEV anymore.With that mentality and low amount of game knowledge regarding attack helicopters/attack helicopter threats you would just ruin the mod even more.

Actually if I were still a dev I would continue to lobby to remove cas choppers.

[solidfire93]

so the HUD speed on Trans and Attack heli are wrong ?