*NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Player feedback for all Project Reality: Battlefield 2 servers.
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Vincento94
Posts: 250
Joined: 2010-10-25 15:08

Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Vincento94 »

mries wrote:Hi there,

This evening I got banned from NWA, because I totally accidentally shot my LAT (and hit friendlies and or a vehicle, I am not sure what I hit because I got TK'ed directly after that by somebody(what I can understand)) when I wanted to change the rangesetting to 100m in main base directly at start of the round, I really do not know how it happened and I felt really stupid. Probably accidently clicked my mouse.

It was on the Khamishyah map around 20:00pm today. US side, playername: Mries

I thought I was tempbanned but after an hour or so I tried to rejoin and couldn't.
I would like to get unbanned, I am a regular serious PR player and it was not my intention to grief/troll or intentional tk.

Thanks in advance,
Hello mries,

We were having some issues with banlist yesterday, you should be able to join again.
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mries
Posts: 475
Joined: 2013-06-30 16:16

Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by mries »

Thanks for the help, but yesterday I tried to join again and still mentioned I was banned?
Masterserver was up because I then joined PRTA.

Still issues with the banlist?
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Vincento94
Posts: 250
Joined: 2010-10-25 15:08

Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Vincento94 »

mries wrote:Thanks for the help, but yesterday I tried to join again and still mentioned I was banned?
Masterserver was up because I then joined PRTA.

Still issues with the banlist?
Strange.. should be good now.
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mries
Posts: 475
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Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by mries »

Thanks for looking into it, will try to join this evening.
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Vincento94
Posts: 250
Joined: 2010-10-25 15:08

Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Vincento94 »

mries wrote:Thanks for looking into it, will try to join this evening.
Np, let me know if it doesn't work.
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Vincento94
Posts: 250
Joined: 2010-10-25 15:08

Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Vincento94 »

If you cannot find our server on the server browser feel free to connect using direct IP

Our IP is: 109.236.86.25

Using default BF2 server port (16567)
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STompa
Posts: 278
Joined: 2014-12-17 10:54

Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by STompa »

It is sad to see that *NwA* is starting to go down a very familiar road in regards to admin behaviour and banning. I feel a need to post this publicly because I know it's not going to stop with this one incident and this one player. In my previous admin experience I've seen the exact same thing happen and escalate ridiculously far. It's sad to see it all starting to repeat itself on other servers.

Co-incidentally as some MeRk admins got admin-power on the NwA server, over three year old grudges and personal dislikes seemed to be suddenly revived. A player who some of the MeRk admins and presumably NwA admins personally disliked in the past got permanently banned recently without appeal chance. Remember that this is the most harsh punishment there is. Here's a list of all the official permban reasons and claims made by the *NwA* admins. I'll discuss the evidence and what the claims actually mean and if they are actually against the rules or permban worthy and what this means for the future.

1. "Breaking and bending rules".
2. Not "teamworking".
3. "Locking the team out of valuable assets".
4. Not being "a friend" of the server.
5. Playing your best to achieve high kill scores (quote; "abuse the poor bf2 engine to the maximum just for that few lousy kills and score"
6. Not providing an "immersive experience"
7. Being accused by others for "lack of sportsmanship"
8. Having created early squads.

The most serious accusation is the first one and the only one with any merit. The player ONCE got tempbanned for a borderline baserape. Fair enough. Other than that there are 5 reports made. 3 of them from the same group of friends and two by the same player who all have personal issues with the player in question. Anyone can report ingame no matter false or true and it happens all the time. You can't claim that someone is constantly breaking/bending rules and then only provide a handful of reports without any evidence to back it up. If the reports were true, how come the player wasn't punished ingame or even warned? One tempban is not a pattern - it's an exception to all the rounds played.

Since the player obviously didn't cause any real trouble on the server the NwA admin team desperatly looks for other reason to ban the person they personally dislike. Here comes reasons 2-7. To avoid a wall of text I wont go into detail of the ridiculousness and subjectivity to all these claims. Not to mention that the claims have no evidence or are in themselves banworthy. First of all claims like these aren't against any rules and are obviously not banworthy even if there was evidence. Things like these can be said about any player, because it's a personal opinion and based on the accusers understanding of the game. But let's pretend that "not teamworking" in the admins opinion is a permanently banworthy offence. How come the people creating RECON squads in the middle of nowhere, or people holding 8-man squads on uncappable flags are never warned or even tempbanned? But meanwhiles a player who plays the game normally and always plays by objectives gets PERMANENTLY BANNED without appeal? The admin bias is so obvious and sad.

Claim 8 is also something which could have merit. But in this case doesn't at all. When trying to create for example an asset squad it happens EVERY SINGLE GAME that people create a squad right before the timer. I'll refer you to the logs in the link below. But they all show that the player in question created only 1 early squad and always extremely near the 2:00 mark. That means it is not intentional or even risks to create a squadbug. You could bring up such logs for every PR player that likes assets. But since the NWA admins are desperate to find proper ban reasons they brought this up. Not to mention that we are talking about a few examples over several months, which is completely normal.

Co-incidentally one of the new MeRk admins who recently got adminrights on NwA contacted me on teamspeak in a private conversation. He started talking about what this player did three years ago in PR 0.98. Then I asked if that was the reason he was banned now - and the response was no. But every time I pointed out how ridiculous the current claims are only the history was discussed and I know it will be brought up again here. There is not a single shred of evidence to suggest that the banned player still behaves like he did three years ago, in fact the opposite. Otherwise there would be a real and provable pattern of warnings and tempbans - not just once incident in combination with false reports and subjective claims from biased people. Ironicly the person that contacted me reminded me during the conversation of his own offenses on another server. He therefore got temporarily banned for admitting to ghosting, sharing intel in all-chat, and insulting admins over the report function (much more serious offenses than "not providing an immersive experience" for example). In contrast there is actual evidence and proof in his case, for example chatlogs where he admits to ghosting and shares intel in allchat. Yet he wont be permbanned for it of course and can always appeal.

But the NWA admins have obviously not seriously investigated the claims made by the new MeRk admins and decided to trust the subjective opinions of people with a history of a personal grudge and use that as PERMANENT ban reason without appeal. Please don't continue to throw your servers principals and any ounce of professionallism out the window because of unbacked claims and unreliable pressure from biased admins that seemingly lack self-reflection.

What concerns me is that I've seen something all too familiar before. This is how it all starts. And if the admins get away with it and nobody properly confronts them, they will just continue banning more and more people for the same miniscule reasons; only because of personal dislikes. You never think it's going to be yourself getting a spontanious permaban for not "teamworking" or "not being a serverfriend" until it happens to yourself.

Source: https://nwa-clan.com/threads/viirusiise ... ppeal.384/
Last edited by STompa on 2016-02-20 13:45, edited 2 times in total.
"You on the other hand feel that it is fine to abuse the poor bf2 engine to the maximum just for that few lousy kills and score, where we restrain from this because we want more immersive experience. " - *NwA* Alchemist
Orford
Posts: 856
Joined: 2009-06-17 15:41

Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Orford »

tldr?

you got banned from merk and merk have admin on nwa so you got banned from there as well? Butt hurt?

oh no hang on, its a my mate go banned so i'm going to back him up. By moaning about the admins on the server.

When I used to help run an PR community we decided that some times the spirit of the game play rather than the actual rules is more important. Sort of like, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. No one player is more special or better than any one else. If they play to win at all cost, like blowing one of only two roads out of main in to combat, it may not be main camping or against the rules. but it turns an potential epic 2 hour battle into a 30 min steam roll.

If you are of the mentality of win at all cos then you will not be welcom on all servers.

The server owns admin and community grow or not depending on whether there is enough people to sustane the server. Also any one else who from time to time wants to have a good game and not a race to win.

Small actions against persistent, win at all cost, need to get the most kills for my videos, type of players is needed. Like i said its for the greater good. Just no need to kill a game ti win win win by forcing the enemy not to be able to get a foot hold in the game.



If you don't like it play on a server that accepts your game style. Or change. trouble just seams to follow some people and it amazes me that in many places they seam to find the same problems, yet blame every one else. Do you see what im getting at.
Last edited by Orford on 2016-02-20 12:17, edited 2 times in total.
STompa
Posts: 278
Joined: 2014-12-17 10:54

Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by STompa »

Orford wrote:tldr?

you got banned from merk and merk have admin on nwa so you got banned from there as well? Butt hurt?

oh no hang on, its a my mate go banned so i'm going to back him up. By moaning about the admins on the server.

When I used to help run an PR community we decided that some times the spirit of the game play rather than the actual rules is more important. Sort of like, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. No one player is more special or better than any one else. If they play to win at all cost, like blowing one of only two roads out of main in to combat, it may not be main camping or against the rules. but it turns an potential epic 2 hour battle into a 30 min steam roll.

If you are of the mentality of win at all cos then you will not be welcom on all servers.

The server owns admin and community grow or not depending on whether there is enough people to sustane the server. Also any one else who from time to time wants to have a good game and not a race to win.

Small actions against persistent, win at all cost, need to get the most kills for my videos, type of players is needed. Like i said its for the greater good. Just no need to kill a game ti win win win by forcing the enemy not to be able to get a foot hold in the game.

Seriously mate you look like a little moaning prick, not to mention the actual guy who is banned has a sycophant.

If you don't like it play on a server that accepts your game style. oh wait it must be difficult getting all those leet kills when gamers are over so quick.
I tried to be as smooth as possible in my post and here you go instantly insulting me, calling me a "moaning prick" but yet don't respond to the points I made in a serious manner. The classic "go play somewhere else if you don't like it". I do play on all servers. And to be honest being banned on any PR server really sucks. I do like playing on NWA and many other servers aswell. But the issue is picking and choosing imaginary rules to get rid of people you dislike. This is a tendency which I know wont stop here. And as long as people you don't know or care about get banned nobody gives a fuck. But when it happens to yourself or someone you know it's not longer funny.

There are probably hundreds of PR players who play as competetive as they can and chase kills. But yet co-incidentally only one person got banned for it. If you cannot see the abusiveness, subjectivity and ridiculousness of it all I would be surprised. Not to mention the obvious lack of principal or professionalism by letting personal grudges be the jury and judge. This is feedback to your server. It's not ment to offend but to show people what NwA is all about as objectivly as possible. No need to respond with insults.
Last edited by STompa on 2016-02-20 12:22, edited 2 times in total.
"You on the other hand feel that it is fine to abuse the poor bf2 engine to the maximum just for that few lousy kills and score, where we restrain from this because we want more immersive experience. " - *NwA* Alchemist
Orford
Posts: 856
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Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Orford »

I already edited my post after re reading it. I do apologize seriously I do. Its my 40th birthday tomorrow and i'm a little stoned right now!

I understand your frustration, we once had an admin who was great but a little to the letter of the rules and we had problem on the other side of the coin as yourself.

Its a hard act to get right. A reputation is hard to shake. There were many times I was on the end of a beyond sight missile from a cobra, by you two I think? Again, not against any rules but using the game engine to your advantage, No one else did it at the time until you highlighted it. A sort of exploit and it freaking sucked. You guys where all giving it the big up basically willy waving saying its the game your cannot do any thing to us.

I think that's where a lot of the resentment comes from. You play to win at all cost to look the best. Being the best isn't about the score on the screen or bending the game and justifying it by claiming the WIN!

Do admins look for an excuse to ban players who taunt their hard work and laugh in their faces. Even though the antagonist isnt doing anything technically wrong. I'll take the 5th, can I do that?

Again my memory is cloudy but i'm sure I remember the names.

Its just no fun to play against and infact I knew of many players who would not come on the server if certain players were on for this very reason. Come in TS and ask is xyz on your server even before opening the game as they only played on our servers. We couldn't do anything to remove the unlike players as they were not breaking any rules.

You are not and will never be more important than the game play of the server that people want to play on and enjoy the game play. Some time we got it wrong and some time we got it spot on.

Thats probly why you got banned. I'm sure you would have had many warning and suggestions on what not to do and many incidents where you know you pushed the line. Don't act all innocent and shout JUSTICE ffs.

Don't be surprise when you paint a target on your back and some one takes a shot at you. Its just common sense.

I am not affiliated to NwA any more and would like my comments to be taken as based on my past experiences and servers rights to adopt a game play style they choose.
I however am as biased as they come, Vince and the admin team are doing a great job in training new admin and getting the NwA servers back up and running. Awesome work guys thanks for keeping it going.

There are 125 pages on this thread and I'm sure at some point in the past we have had this conversation about this very player on some of these pages. Go have a look I remember the same story and your still at it??
Last edited by Orford on 2016-02-20 12:45, edited 8 times in total.
STompa
Posts: 278
Joined: 2014-12-17 10:54

Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by STompa »

Orford wrote:
Its just no fun to play against and infact I knew of many players who would not come on the server if certain players were on for this very reason. Come in TS and ask is xyz on your server even before opening the game as they only played on our servers.

Thats probly why you got banned. I'm sure you would have had many warning and suggestions on what not to do and many incidents where you know you pushed the line. Don't act all innocent and shout JUSTICE ffs.

Don't be surprise when you paint a target on your back and some one takes a shot at you. Its just common sense.
First of all I am not banned from NwA. If you carefully read the source-thread and my post you will see that the player in question has not a single warning recorded in the logs. Only 1 tempban and 5 reports from players who already dislike him, without any evidence to suggest that the reports were true such as reprecussions, battle recorder recordings or anything similar.

The problem is that this is obviously a witchhunt based on personal dislike, and it can happen to anyone. And when it happens to oneself or people you know it fucking sucks. What principals does a server have if some peoples personal dislike can pressure admins into permanently banning another player? Do you think it's good server conduct if I tried to pressure other servers into banning you or your friends because I dislike you - and then make up imaginary reasons to attempt to justify it? There are plenty of players who play competetive and try their hardest ingame. But the permban is obviously not about that. Otherwise the server would not have many clans left playing there without bans on their record.
"You on the other hand feel that it is fine to abuse the poor bf2 engine to the maximum just for that few lousy kills and score, where we restrain from this because we want more immersive experience. " - *NwA* Alchemist
Orford
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Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Orford »

It obviuosly does not happen to every one or could happen to every one. For whatever reason "a" player gets a reputation. If this reputation is brought to the attention of an admin team.If over time they agre with this opinion due to the actions of player "a". Then this could happen.

The NwA admin team is open to and would take advice from any other admin team. In fact in PR it is positively encouraged that server admin team work together for the better of the game. If two admins teams who run server with the same game play style and ethos then yes they will end up agreeing. Its not just the logs its also conversations admins talking to each other in TS.

If the reasons as to why the ban has happened are week and lack of hard copy evidence then yes its a bit hard to swallow. Yet denying that your game style hasn't cause issues and thus painted the metaphorical target on your back and trying to feign shock and surprise then i have no sympathy with your cause.

I'm sorry but I have played against to many win at all cost players some do adapt, I shouldn't mention but I will. I had issues with 3dac but we talked and when they played on the server we had great games. That was many many years ago. Didn't want to drag it up but its an example where technically no one was breaking the rules but it was spoiling the game.
May be some more direct conversation could go on and smooth this out. If it hasn't been tried before. Its obvious typing can be read and interpreted in different ways. Talking is always better.

Thanks for the chat, going for a birthday beer now. Hope you get this sorted.
STompa
Posts: 278
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Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by STompa »

Orford wrote:It obviuosly does not happen to every one or could happen to every one.

If the reasons as to why the ban has happened are week and lack of hard copy evidence then yes its a bit hard to swallow.

I'm sorry but I have played against to many win at all cost players some do adapt, I shouldn't mention but I will.
Again I'm not banned from NwA. But you are so wrong about this kind of thing only happens to a few people and "for good reason". I don't want to start dragging in other examples from other servers here, but I can do it in private if you want to hear some examples. What is upsetting is that I didn't expect NwA to become a server like this. But it seems like the new additions of certain admins also brought with some bias and dislike. Sadly the NwA admins didn't seem to have enough principal in their own serverrules and let grudges rule their decisions.

As long as you're not banned yourself you can sit there and say "oh it'll never happen to me". But before you know it you got off wrongly with an admin or two and suddenly you are permbanned for not "bringing an immersive experience". Then it's another story.

Specially since many of the banreasons which are of course without evidence to begin with covers a large amount of the PR community such as "playing your best to get as many kills as possible". Or not giving assets to random people when you have friends on teamspeak. I don't want to get into specific clans or names, but I have played with most clans in the PR community and to be honest they all try their hardest to win the games and get kills. This assumed difference is imaginary. Just like the ban reasons and that's a sad thing. Not only that it's unjust, but anybody could be the next victim.
"You on the other hand feel that it is fine to abuse the poor bf2 engine to the maximum just for that few lousy kills and score, where we restrain from this because we want more immersive experience. " - *NwA* Alchemist
Orford
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Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Orford »

I'm sure they will take on bored your feedback.
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Mats391
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Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Mats391 »

Yesterday we had a nice run of 5 or so 4km desert maps. Sadly there was no admin on to continue this spree of asset whoring and a full server switched to Shijia Skirmish. That should not really happen on full server. It wasnt even that late, a lot of players jumped to other EU servers.
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Vincento94
Posts: 250
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Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Vincento94 »

[R-DEV]Mats391 wrote:Yesterday we had a nice run of 5 or so 4km desert maps. Sadly there was no admin on to continue this spree of asset whoring and a full server switched to Shijia Skirmish. That should not really happen on full server. It wasnt even that late, a lot of players jumped to other EU servers.
I have reminded the responsible admin to mind the variety of the maps played, Skirmish was set as first map so I guess the maplist ended and it went back to the first map. I've removed the skirmish altogether.
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Mats391
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Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Mats391 »

I didnt mind the variety. At least it wasnt 5 insurgency rounds in a row ;)
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LiamBai
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Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by LiamBai »

Agree with Mats. I had assets most of the time so I was happy.
It was really refreshing to play only AAS for five rounds straight. :)
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STompa
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Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by STompa »

Can I expect a response from any current *NwA* admins before the topic gets changed and forgotten? Or are you going to pretend like nothing has happened?
"You on the other hand feel that it is fine to abuse the poor bf2 engine to the maximum just for that few lousy kills and score, where we restrain from this because we want more immersive experience. " - *NwA* Alchemist
Vincento94
Posts: 250
Joined: 2010-10-25 15:08

Re: *NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

Post by Vincento94 »

STompa wrote:Can I expect a response from any current *NwA* admins before the topic gets changed and forgotten? Or are you going to pretend like nothing has happened?
We normally do not discuss bans here so ill keep it short.

We have investigated him for a while, decided to watch him closely and now we have decided to perm ban him after this:

Code: Select all

[12:39 GLOBAL  ] Whisky viirusiiseli: faggot camping usa main
[12:40 GLOBAL  ] Whisky viirusiiseli: cause i bombed the faggot
We believe it is in the best interest of our server and community to keep viirusiiseli on our banlist.
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