3ds max 9

[W.Darwin]

TOP PAGE POST
I will profit this top page post to refresh my thread introduction

ps: I am looking for a programmer and a texture artist!

Hi! This is a 3DsMAX9 thread.

The purpose of this thread serve as an other tutorial guide for the beginner of 3DsMAX as I progress in with this software and as an exposition Platform for my latest 3d models. It is also a thread where you can post you'r ideas and/or opinion on the modelling that I do!

In addition, depending on the load of project being currently active for me, I would gladly start partnership project with you! We can organise ourselve to divide the modeling work in 2 and therefore getting a finished product faster!

Okay!

TO ANYONE WHO READ THIS, IF YOU ARE INTERESTED AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, I WOULD HIRE YOU TO MAKE THE TEXTURE FOR THESE BUILDING.



It is not ready yet, alot of modelling remains for me to do.
the Job of texturizing still can wait for 7 to 20 days.



I can probably make the texture. Althought it would spare me time since I would need to research all the information to do it properly.

More content to come soon.

Stay tuned!



[Edit1:]
The textures you see right now on the buildings are simply Theorical texture that I applied quickly to give an overall look to the statics. No actual job was done in that department to the moment.

[ddeo]

Try to use PR textures instead, modify UV of model if necessary.

[Rhino]

TO ANYONE WHO READ THIS, IF YOU ARE INTERESTED AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, I WOULD HIRE YOU TO MAKE THE TEXTURE FOR THESE BUILDING.

I charge 15 GBP Per Hour.

[Mats391]

I charge 15 GBP Per Hour.

You need to make sure he only charges for time actually spent working on this. Usually he starts one thing and then keeps on working on a Lynx

[W.Darwin]

Yeah, and acknowledging he demands to be paid with Ganja/Booze/Pussy , I doubt this might represent consistent hours of work ;P

[Rhino]

You need to make sure he only charges for time actually spent working on this. Usually he starts one thing and then keeps on working on a Lynx

Technically I haven't even started the thing you want me to do

[W.Darwin]

Rhino, I will need to schedule an Audio conversation with you soon.
PM a date, thx <3

[W.Darwin]

[UPDATE]

Roof top modelisation for the pleasure of snipers

And Hat... And AA... xD

The transport chopper will need spotters in their littlebird and navigate in the city to seek-and-destroy the roof top campers






I also have a question, it would be very efficient to have skyscrappers with working elevator.
Is it possible to program such a thing?

Other question, when you Edit triangulation, Does using the tool ''turn'' actually optimize the static, because it seems like the number of tri is reduced when u apply it as it should. ??

[Rhino]

Rhino, I will need to schedule an Audio conversation with you soon.
PM a date, thx <3

I actually have no time to devote to this and need to focus on my own work.

[UPDATE]

Roof top modelisation for the pleasure of snipers

And Hat... And AA... xD

The transport chopper will need spotters in their littlebird and navigate in the city to seek-and-destroy the roof top campers

you really need to learn how to model properly on a small, simple static....

I also have a question, it would be very efficient to have skyscrappers with working elevator.
Is it possible to program such a thing?

Yes, but Triggerables are pretty laggy/buggy: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... ables.html

Other question, when you Edit triangulation, Does using the tool ''turn'' actually optimize the static, because it seems like the number of tri is reduced when u apply it as it should. ??

No, they just turn the tris to make the shape you want but your best off actually putting edges in as other changes can affect their setup later on.

[W.Darwin]

I actually have no time to devote to this and need to focus on my own work.

The actual of situation can change overtime.

I intend to make this right, and hope you will have 15 minutes by the next 2 months

you really need to learn how to model properly on a small, simple static....

I successfully exported the doors I modelized in the first page.
I do not understand the meaning of your suggestion, even if trying to be humble and comprehensive.

Isn't it the same process but bigger?

This is an actual Top-view frame of the roof-top

It is pretty symmetrical
There are minor flaws. That I can correct easily.
But I cannot spot the real problem that seems obvious to you

(Elevator proff of concept)

Aaah! Well.. As far as the video goes in doesn't appears to be laggy.

About the inconveniance of doors opening before time, probably a better way exist to put it off the paper.

The first thing that came on my mind was a model of damaged elevator with broken door that actually never really close.

The player is warned of the danger of falling, although will be able to get ontop-of it. The elevator cage could be modelised in order to fit tightly to the elevator itself.

And the elevator cage ground could be modelised too low for the player to clip inside the elevator when it goes down again.
(making him helpless, bleeding, in need of a breacher for a rope... That's what u get for trying to play smart in a elevator.. haha )


Maybe some more complex programmation about proximity detection would be possible tho.. No idea.

[Rhino]

I successfully exported the doors I modelized in the first page.
I do not understand the meaning of your suggestion, even if trying to be humble and comprehensive.

Isn't it the same process but bigger?

I dunno if there is a massive language barrier here or something but let me try and say this again as clear as possible.

There is a gigantic divide between having something looking about right in 3DsMax, and having something working well ingame, and there are so many things you are totally unaware of yet or haven't even touched yet at the very least, on top of all the minor stuff that your doing wrong which in an object of this size, those minor errors replicated thousands of times over alone, is enough to make a model unusable.

Let me try and explain this from how I learnt how to make statics. My first statics I made for PR back in 2006 (10 years ago now) that went ingame, where small small waterplanes for the rice paddiers on Op Ghost Train, still in use today in fact:


As you can see, from a modelling pov, seriously straight forward object with a single lod, 14 tris and only one material with only a colour texture (which then BF2 takes and puts its water effect texture ontop of), but was still learnt a lot from getting it ingame, since waterplanes have their own issues you need to get around with making it so players can swim in them, they are not swimming outside of them (like vbf2 waterplanes) and getting them to be lightmapped and have no issues etc.

Made a bunch of small objects after than but it wasn't until 2008 until I took on my first semi-complex static, the Container Handling Crane for the Muttrah Docks (and since has been used on many other maps too): https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f316-2 ... crane.html



Looking back on it now, I can see a whole heap of issues with it that hurt performance and make it not work very well ingame. Things like the 14 different materials, which means a load of draw calls which makes it harder for clients to render. Things like the final LOD has waay to many tris for good performance at long distances, and it should have only one material so it casts a proper dynamic shadow on players/vehicles underneath it, which right now because of all its materials, it will not. Things like some really bad UV cords that make it much harder to render still, and the list goes on, and this is as well as lots of minor issues.

Luckily these things are not too bad as this static is firstly, not that common, areas it is in are normally pretty sparsely populated with statics, and not that triangle heavy and even thou it has a lot of materials, they are mostly all loading the same type of textures, just in different orders/formats, and its loading mostly common textures already used in the maps by other statics so not adding that much to the memory load as a result, and the automatic LM UVs aren't too bad either and only 512x512, but could be a lot better still. As such even thou this static looking back at it is riddled with problems (since back then I didn't have the luxury of having people around me who knew what to look out for and tell me what to do right instead), it is still just about usable, but most importantly I took what I learnt from this static to my next set of statics and as such, they had fewer issues etc, and continued that process to where I am now with being able to seriously push the boundaries of what this engine can do with things like the 8x8km Falklands Mesh terrain, which fyi, are a bunch of big static meshes to get around the 4x4km BF2 terrain size limit, as well as other things.

I'm sorry but all you have learnt so far from your door, is how to do a basic model which tbh, is far too high poly for what it is, and export it, since you didn't really even give it a proper set of texture UVs and didn't even test things like lightmaps and how it will truly behave ingame, which you can only really find out once mappers start using them and when its been on a released map.

Overall, you jumping in to something that is a really large static, just means your going to magnify all these small errors thousands of times over, making fixing them afterwards near to impossible and that's if you spot them or if someone is willing to point them out for you on such a massive static. So I'll repeat what I said before:
[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Rhino;2122302']I'm only going to say this once and I'm going to be blunt.

If you truly want to learn how to model then importing the vBF2 Hotel and TV Station and editing them is seriously not the way to go about it, as firstly imported models have tones of issues that require fixing, ideally before you even begin to edit the model as otherwise they are going to create bigger issues down the line, resulting in a pretty much vertical learning curve which trust me, will result in these statics never making it ingame in any truly usable state, and secondly, you are really not learning much by skipping over the key processes.

If you truly want my advice, then I advise you to put all you've done on the back burner at the very least, and start with a brand new and a small, simple structure, like the shed in my tutorial, but main point is just to have a very simple structure and the simpler the better, not some kind of modern house with funny curved walls and roofs and certainly not a huge skyscraper, something really basic (would be worth posting ref pictures of something you plan to make to get feedback on how hard it is to make it before starting even, as well as how useful it is for mappers since as a static modeller, you should be working directly with the mappers, finding out what they need and making it, rather than making stuff and hoping they can use it), and finish it from start to finish being 100% focused on it and nothing else, with getting feedback on it in these forums to ensure there are no errors with it, and any errors there are with it you can fix up, or at least learn from for doing your next static.

Finally take note that it is seriously not worth my time on giving you any more feedback on your current method of working so I will not be giving you any more feedback unless you follow my advice.

Cheers.[/quote]

This will be the last time I say this since I've wasted about 30mins trying to explain this, again....

[quote="W.Darwin""]Aaah! Well.. As far as the video goes in doesn't appears to be laggy. [/quote]

There is a mammoth gap between something working fine in the editor, or on a local server, and how it behaves on a dedicated server, let alone when that dedicated server has 100 players in it....

[W.Darwin]

.

this static looking back at it is riddled with problems (since back then I didn't have the luxury of having people around me who knew what to look out for and tell me what to do right instead)

I almost stopped reading your post on that side note. I feel like it would be more consistent if I was experimenting like you did, getting the raw knowledge alone make you masterize a substance.

I am now with being able to seriously push the boundaries of what this engine can do with things like the 8x8km Falklands Mesh terrain, which fyi, are a bunch of big static meshes to get around the 4x4km BF2 terrain size limit, as well as other things.

Woh.. Woahh?!!
I always had this idea in mind!!
I always thought the Bf2 editor landscape was poorly designed and a set of big static meshe could do a better optimized work with better rendering!

I am glad you exploit it for good!

I'm sorry but all you have learnt so far from your door, is how to do a basic model which tbh, is far too high poly for what it is, and export it, since you didn't really even give it a proper set of texture UVs and didn't even test things like lightmaps and how it will truly behave ingame, which you can only really find out once mappers start using them and when its been on a released map.

Haha I know its high poly, but look, I had this idea in mind to add an Extra LOD for extra-close-up details, like, LOD0 2meters, LOD1 15 meter. Wich would make the player who is actually in front of the door, get a nice model in front of him, while all his surrounding get the 40-100 tris door

And it was playable in-game, with colision and bullet contact. All that remained was, as u wrote, A proper UV mapping and lightmaps.

But hey, I downloaded everything 9-10 days ago. 2 weeks ago I had literally no knowledge at all

Overall, you jumping in to something that is a really large static, just means your going to magnify all these small errors thousands of times over, making fixing them afterwards near to impossible

I will keep a RAW 3ds Max file of everything that I do. like ''Sky_Tower_01_Edit.MAX'' ''Sky_Tower_01_Finished.MAX''

and that's if you spot them or if someone is willing to point them out for you on such a massive static.

Master.
(Gregorian chant in the background)

This will be the last time I say this since I've wasted about 30mins trying to explain this, again....

It is greatly apprecieted. Thanks for the consideration Rhino

[Rhino]

I almost stopped reading your post on that side note. I feel like it would be more consistent if I was experimenting like you did, getting the raw knowledge alone make you masterize a substance.

The difference is I didn't jump in the deep end and I didn't have any tutorials to guide me.

Woh.. Woahh?!!
I always had this idea in mind!!
I always thought the Bf2 editor landscape was poorly designed and a set of big static meshe could do a better optimized work with better rendering!

I am glad you exploit it for good!

This isn't news: Falklands (Malvinas) Mini-Mod Announcement - Project Reality Forums

And BF2s terrain is actually much better at being terrain than mesh terrain, since Mesh terrain looses a lot of features of normal terrain, but the extra size is worth it for PR:F.

Haha I know its high poly, but look, I had this idea in mind to add an Extra LOD for extra-close-up details, like, LOD0 2meters, LOD1 15 meter. Wich would make the player who is actually in front of the door, get a nice model in front of him, while all his surrounding get the 40-100 tris door

Yes, the purpose of LODs is to have higher detail when close up to objects, and not so much detail when far away from them, but that dosen't mean you can't needlessly waste tris on something that dosen't even benefit that much from all those extra tris, on something that could be done with very few tris, and a normal texture, like so:


I in fact made a whole new series of door textures but never got round to fully implementing them:

And it was playable in-game, with colision and bullet contact. All that remained was, as u wrote, A proper UV mapping and lightmaps.

Yours and my idea of what is "playable" and what is "proper" are very different....

Seriously, last time I will say it, make a nice, small, simple structure, like a shed, or if you want something for a Chinese city, doing a quick street view of Shanghai I found some nice plat boxes, or a funny type of hooded bin you see quite a lot of too, or something similar, but ye talk to Turkish Moose or who ever about what statics they want and find something nice, small and simple to make, as I keep on saying.....

I will keep a RAW 3ds Max file of everything that I do. like ''Sky_Tower_01_Edit.MAX'' ''Sky_Tower_01_Finished.MAX''

Yes I have all the .max files of all the statics I've ever made. But fixing a static later on is much harder than you might first think, its not as easy as updating the mesh and re-exporting. Once a static is in a map, you can't change the static without the map needing to redo its lightmaps for that static. This is the biggest reason why so many statics have old problems that go unresolved, becasue updating a maps lightmaps is pretty hard to do in a lot of cases, and that's even when you have the maps ligthmap files, which if you don't, means the entire map needs to be relightmapped from scratch, something that few mappers are willing to do and it needs to be done for all maps that have the static on it. Again, this is one thing you would find out pretty quickly if you actually finish a static that is usable by mappers and have mappers using it, which will only happen any time soon, if you make something small and simple that mappers need.

It is greatly apprecieted. Thanks for the consideration Rhino

You can appreciate it by following my advice. You have potential to make some good statics, especially with all that energy you have, but there is no point into challenging it all into something that is going to be made in such a way it can't be used.

[W.Darwin]

[Update]



On the flower pot, I wasn't sure if I needed to make the flower? Probably it is better to make them seperate and integrate them later on?

Other than that, I am not sure yet how I should proceed on the textures.
The one you used for muttrah seems like they would fit. Since I intended to make most of the models in Blue/White , Window/concrete.

And it would make the Muttrah static good to use with the urban map-pack im making.

If not, then I thought about making a whole new texture pack.

On that same topic, the texture tutorial you brought on the forum is expired.

[Mineral]

Don't make new texture pack. We have plenty of middle eastern available.

[W.Darwin]

Alright! but the main theme for these structures is supposed to be Asia

But I just think i'll use the colors of moooot

[Edit1:]
Hey, have you ever tried to run a test-server with as much people as possible and have performance testing maps?
I wonder how many dynamic doors a server can run smoothly?

Because I know Operation ghost train has a trigger door in the tunnel.

Or in general, any triggerable object. Is it the same rule as explosive barrel and stuff (Wich is below 300)
In that case, It would be perfect!

I posted this question in '' Ask a Dev part2 ''
And I repost it here since it doesn't seem to get any attention. And I want the answer.
Thanks

[Edit2:]
Is the Forward outpost/Hideout programmation calculating the Z factor with the overrunning system?

[W.Darwin]

I don't know how many people watch this thread and if any of you got this answer but.

How can I display the backface of the model in MAX ? Only 1 face will apear in BF2 editor and this is causing me alot of time delay since I have to export everything 3-4-5-6 time and correct the face that are on the wrong side of the model.

If i could just see it in 3dsmax it would save me alot of time.

i've been searching the net for 10 min now
i'll keep you updated if i find the answer

[EDIT1:]

I actually knew how to do.. Maybe im too tired..
Actually, with the method of;
-Righ-click on selected item
-Object propriety
-Display properties
-Check 'Backface Cull'

I can make the inner faces of models invisible.
Although, for odd reasons, when everything is fixed, it gives me the opposite reaction in BF2 editor?
Meaning, In order to have a static with the faces on the right side, I need to configure them inside the model in 3DsMax.

O_o

[Rhino]

First before I forget, you don't make the LODs at this stage, you make them after LOD0 is 100% done with textures etc, as otherwise your just making more work for yourself in the long run and making the LODs match is really hard work

Your main focus now needs to be on making LOD0 as good and optimized as possible, which looking from your picture, seeing a bunch of unnecessary edges/verts still which you need to get rid of before you even start texturing. I suggest giving bigger pictures from lots of angles of your LOD0 so we can give better feedback.

On the flower pot, I wasn't sure if I needed to make the flower? Probably it is better to make them seperate and integrate them later on?

Flowers would be best made as an Overgrowth object that was added on as a child, but wouldn't worry about that right now.

Other than that, I am not sure yet how I should proceed on the textures.
The one you used for muttrah seems like they would fit. Since I intended to make most of the models in Blue/White , Window/concrete.

And it would make the Muttrah static good to use with the urban map-pack im making.

If not, then I thought about making a whole new texture pack.

On that same topic, the texture tutorial you brought on the forum is expired.

Don't recall linking any expired tuts?

Anyways as Mineral said, you should always totally avoid making new textures for statics unless totally necessary and it will be of a serious benefit, which in this case, both are a no.

You could use the ME City static texture palettes as Mineral suggested since any Asian city map is going to be using a lot of ME City statics with a reskin anyways, since most of them fit a Chinese or w/e city just fine, with a retexture to their shop signs to be in Chinese rather than Arabic, which is exactly what Shjia does for example. Only ones which don't fit are the buildings with modelled arabic text on them naturally.

You should read this tut here, will explain it a little more: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... mance.html

But for these items I would advise using the "Common textures" Palettes for the most part since they could go in a lot of places and those textures are used by pretty much all BF2 statics.


One thing to remember when doing statics is that you are not texturing to a model, like you do with normal objects, but you model to textures. This means you should have all your textures picked and if ready, prepared even before you start modelling, especially things like windows since if your using a detailed window texture, you want your modelled window space to be at the same aspect ratio of the texture, or otherwise you will need to stretch it etc. But ye luckily with these simple objects you can slap pretty much any old textures on them pretty easily but something to take into account when making more complex objects in the future

Now for your textures, done a quick scan though the common and PR textures and for the flower pot, would suggest these.

For your colour, common_01_c.dds is probably your best bet, got a few to pick from but those white ones near the bottom should do you well here, mainly a matter of which works best with the detail texture which you will need to do though trial and error, but my guess is the one right next to the green block should work well, or the one to the left of it.


For your detail texture, isn't really much to pick from but painted_metal2_de.dds from the pr textures, is probably the most fitting, even thou its for metal technically, it should work well here even so:



For the Bin, you can probably use the same common_01_c.dds colours as the pot, although think the more greyer of the two would work best, not the one on the very left mind you, has too much variation for this kinda object.

For detail, metal_panel_de.dds would work well, flipped on its side so the black bit was on the top of the bin to do that black topping a bit, and also tiled a little so it was on the bottom too. Might have to forgo the black stripe down the middle but no one will miss that but could possibly do that though the colour texture, but not really worth it tbh.


Alternatively could use the metal texture in common_02_de.dds and do all the colouring though the colour texture:


Might also want to look into a few crack textures for detail markings like logos etc

I posted this question in '' Ask a Dev part2 ''
And I repost it here since it doesn't seem to get any attention. And I want the answer.
Thanks

I don't see it in that topic, but the main issue with that is, setting them up as a mapper would be hell on earth to do it large scale, and these doors have serious issues, mainly with them not being destroyable, which is why I removed them from OGT, as well as them being laggy etc.

I don't know how many people watch this thread and if any of you got this answer but.

How can I display the backface of the model in MAX ? Only 1 face will apear in BF2 editor and this is causing me alot of time delay since I have to export everything 3-4-5-6 time and correct the face that are on the wrong side of the model.

If i could just see it in 3dsmax it would save me alot of time.

i've been searching the net for 10 min now
i'll keep you updated if i find the answer

[EDIT1:]

It is stated in quite a few tuts, think its even in my shed tut iirc, but anyways

Select all objects in scene, right click, Object Properties, check "Backface Cull":


And also so you don't need to do it for every new object you make etc, Customise, Preferences, Viewport Tab, check "Backface Cull on Object Creation".


Only time you want backface cull off, is when doing things like Overgrowth which draw their backfaces ingame too.

[W.Darwin]

seeing a bunch of unnecessary edges/verts

You talk about the 6 edges on the base of these flower pots LOD0 ?
Hehe darn, I knew I should've removed them! you picky

Don't recall linking any expired tuts?

That is how I see your Thread
It make it very hard to understand a tutorial that only comment expired pictures for explaination, ehehe

you want your modelled window space to be at the same aspect ratio of the texture, or otherwise you will need to stretch it etc.

Well yeah, I thought I could handle well the texture palette and all that. Until I discover we cannot go beyond the little square in the UV map window.

Wich make everything more complicated. Unless there would be method to modify all that.
On medium surfaces the chvillage_01_c was overly stretched on the surface I was trying to fit it while trying to respect the Allowed square space (Again in UV mapping).

Although, it became a child game when I started to stretch the faces of my model beyond that same square.

The problem is, when I loaded my model in BF2 editor (Garden_door) the engine stats bar displayed an error message of texture being over the limit capacity or something.

Now for your textures, done a quick scan though the common and PR textures and for the flower pot, would suggest these.

I like ur enthusiasm, hehe, it incite me to invest even more time into modelling and that sounds hectic to me, there will be no rest for me, 10+ hours a day of modelling everyday untill I collapse !!!

(or until I ascend to a God-like form of 3d modeller Teehee)

Only time you want backface cull off, is when doing things like Overgrowth which draw their backfaces ingame too

If you look back on the picture I sent of the Flower pot/bin , You will see in the last LOD of the bin a cross shaped form of surface, forming the shaft of the garbage bin, I thought of this idea to save memory in Tri count, would this work in a surface like this? And would it be efficient

[Rhino]

You talk about the 6 edges on the base of these flower pots LOD0 ?
Hehe darn, I knew I should've removed them! you picky *

That is the most obvious thing in that picture yes, but can't see much with it being only from one angle and small size in the pic.

It make it very hard to understand a tutorial that only comment expired pictures for explaination, ehehe

Blame ImageShack for removing the pictures off of their server, which no one foresaw at the time (although obvious now).

As such all the tutorials I've made over the last few years have their pics uploaded onto our FTP server and also I have all the pics backed up on my PC encase that even goes down but too late for the old tuts which dont.
And Ratface made this tut to replace it: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... orial.html

Well yeah, I thought I could handle well the texture palette and all that. Until I discover we cannot go beyond the little square in the UV map window.

Only BundleMeshes have to say inside the 1:1 UV Cords. StaticMeshes can go from -16:-16 to +16:+16 tiling max, effectively giving you a max tiling of 32 tiles which is enough even to do the massive airbases with, with a little cutting up of the Mesh/UVs thou.

The problem is, when I loaded my model in BF2 editor (Garden_door) the engine stats bar displayed an error message of texture being over the limit capacity or something.

That's down to bad UVs and will cause slight performance issues.

If you look back on the picture I sent of the Flower pot/bin , You will see in the last LOD of the bin a cross shaped form of surface, forming the shaft of the garbage bin, I thought of this idea to save memory in Tri count, would this work in a surface like this? And would it be efficient

No, that isn't a good way to do it, same tri count, same vert count even, just worse shape and the lighting from the LMs would be totally wrong. We will come on how to best do the LODs later on once your LOD0 is 100%.


Also one thing I forgot to mention from before:

On the flower pot, I wasn't sure if I needed to make the flower? Probably it is better to make them seperate and integrate them later on?

For now, just make the one, but when it comes to exporting, you will want to weld all three up together, deleting the hidden faces to save on LM UV area and to reduce draw calls. Can also export single and double blocks too for mappers who might want to use that setup.