Increase manpad limitation

[TaBull]

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Today in Saarenmaa there was one very skilled chopperpilot who managed pretty much dominate all map. As Russians we had half team attacking third flag and other half defending second. And we had both under our control. Unluckily mandpads were in second flag when the fun with the chopper started. First it destroyed everyone in third flag by himself. Then he destroyed our apc's and most of defenders in second flag. After that he blocked most of our reinforcements. In the end he scored 68 confirmed skills and who knows how many others. While I think that feat was really impressive, I really think that it is too hard to counter such a great pilot. Single most important thing is not getting an anti-air manpad to your squad (due to limitation) which would give even slightest sense of hope. Instead you have to trust that those few manpads are with someone who can even use them.

I want to point out how frustrating it can be in a map like Saarenmaa. Manpads can be effective if you are lucky and I think their effectiviness is good enough. However our squad did not manage to get hands on any manpads over the course of map. Maybe it was stupid to try to fight without anti-air, but there really is very little you can do anyway. Good pilot might encounter manpads somewhere and easily decide to attack where those manpads are not.

What I'm saying is that there really is too few manpads available. Saarenmaa is really open map and chopper can shoot everything its thermal image shows without worrying too much. Which means it can really easily wipe full squads off the map. Always checking if manpad is in your vicinity is really tiresome and not like any map would be fun to play. I understand manpad limitation in urban maps where you still after encountering chopper even without manpads have slight change to run for cover. And more importantly you can wait in cover until chopper flies away. In forest maps like Saarenmaa you are simply screwed when you encounter chopper. While I'm not saying Saarenmaa is the only map with such a problem, I think it is one of the worst.

I really think that manpad limitation should be increased in certain maps. Maps where there are very few structures and such to hide in, and where there are no other heavy assets than attack choppers. When your squad takes manpad it does not have something else. It can really be a bad decision to carry manpad when you would need marksman or grenadier. Increasing manpad limitation would only make situations like today less perilious. And by that I mean situations where single great pilot dominates too greatly. Situations where only option to do anything is to get rid of that enemy asset. Today it really would have been the only option to fight.
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[solidfire93]

you know that you can build an Stationary AA missile pods

AA's are already OP against slow CAS choppers and even jets !

i guess you team didn't build a good FOB on the right place to counter attack thier air/Armour/infy

PR now days full of newbie players (no offence) that they dont know anything or not that much on how they should play PR !

lake of communication between squads...

i have to disagree with your opinion about giving an extra manpad for each teams !

[LiamBai]

What this means is that your team has to coordinate. If people are taking AA kits and not using them, that's not reflecting on the game itself but on the team.

In my opinion the manpad is right now as good as it's been since I started playing. People taking them and not using them is just a fact of the game you have to deal with on public servers, and it's even worse for the HAT kit.

[TaBull]

Of course I know you can build stationary anti-air. It is just impossible to attack if your very front line should be bunch of supplytrucks. Good anti-air positions will be rocketed first and less good ones will be complete useless. There are not so many good fob places in forest heavy maps. And to say that aa would be op is just silly thing to say.

And I know it is the teams fault and communitys fault when those few manpads are not effectively used. It is not fault in a game, more of an issue of balance between anti-air and choppers. And like I said, problem is only in certain maps.

Limitation with HATs is not so crucial even when it sometimes can be annoying. Single tank can dominate single town or so, but never entire map so that only option would be to sit, wait and hope that someone takes care of it.

Oh and by the way, I'm not here really to discuss the topic. I'm here to give a feedback what I feel about current situation.

[STompa]

edit: was just a test-post nvm

[Jacksonez__]

I don't even fly CAS but I don't want the amount of manpad AAs higher. It does not need to be some damn easymode kit which everyone can have.

You need to play smart with it. If the team is incapable of using manpads or static AAs, then they deserve to be raped by CAS, geez.

[solidfire93]

thats the issue right now with PR

new players play it as BF(which is gay)

PR is more like chess ! so use your head before you make a move, one mistake and thats it !

also whats the fun in that if you dont get ambushed by the enemy !

srsly idk why ppl hate when they get killed and dont accept defeat..

like i said there is no communication with the squads anymore !

i had new players in my squad who cried just bcoz he fired at the enemy while we were trying to sneak up on a cache later he accused me that i leave my Squad member alone to die just because he died and didn't follow my order's...

@TaBull i suggest you make a squad and be the squad leader to set up defense and try to ambush the enemy cas in a location inorder to protecting a flag !

good luck.

[viirusiiseli]

Of course I know you can build stationary anti-air. It is just impossible to attack if your very front line should be bunch of supplytrucks. Good anti-air positions will be rocketed first and less good ones will be complete useless. There are not so many good fob places in forest heavy maps. And to say that aa would be op is just silly thing to say.

And I know it is the teams fault and communitys fault when those few manpads are not effectively used. It is not fault in a game, more of an issue of balance between anti-air and choppers. And like I said, problem is only in certain maps.

Limitation with HATs is not so crucial even when it sometimes can be annoying. Single tank can dominate single town or so, but never entire map so that only option would be to sit, wait and hope that someone takes care of it.

Oh and by the way, I'm not here really to discuss the topic. I'm here to give a feedback what I feel about current situation.

You were most likely playing against one of the best crews in PR. Only a few crews who manage that. You cannot beat best by playing mediocre. Problem lies not with AA, but rather the level at which your team was trying to kill enemy CAS. If you don't try hard enough, you can't expect results either.

A MANPAD or two usually kill a less skilled crew but it rarely takes down a better one.

Next time build some static AA, more is better. Have an APC sitting close aswell. And remember, as long as enemy CAS is up you shouldn't venture into attacking. You're on defense by default when enemy CAS is up unless you want to be killed easily. Keep this as your basic expectation and it'll save you some tears and blood.

[Cpt.Future]

In forest maps like Saarenmaa you are simply screwed when you encounter chopper.

There's plenty of cover (from sight) on forest maps. Infantry players can easily hide under trees or in bushes when they hear CAS overhead. CAS and trans helis sound different in PR.
Don't bunch up. Don't sit in the open.

[Fir3w411]

It is not fault in a game, more of an issue of balance between anti-air and choppers.

No, the problem lies in your team having the AA kits in useless spots on the map, as well as not having useful AA emplacements setup to counter the CAS.

Also Saaremaa definitely is one of the better maps for infantry to hide against CAS because there are bushes everywhere - all you have to do is hide in one and you're fine.

[paragonid]

Opinions, opinions, opinions.

Good games are highly customisable.

Developers should make interface for the server admins to change such settings.
Then each server and each player can decide for themselves.

More diversity (between servers which will use it) is always better.

[Mats391]

That would create lots of confusion among players. There would be no easy way to tell how many kits would be allowed on what servers.

[paragonid]

That's a downside, but is it really enough to limit everyone to one type of game rules?

Most of the servers already create such confusion by enforcing different rules. I can't say that it's a bad thing overall. In some of the cases it makes gameplay experience better. Community wants to have diversity, this thread proves it.

[PeppeJ]

That's a downside, but is it really enough to limit everyone to one type of game rules?

Most of the servers already create such confusion by enforcing different rules. I can't say that it's a bad thing overall. In some of the cases it makes gameplay experience better. Community wants to have diversity, this thread proves it.

You're contradicting yourself with that statement, if it's already confusing that server are enforcing different rules, how would even more different rules make it better?

As for Manpads, they're extremely OP as it is, and the last thing we need is more of them. Even if you shoot and miss 5 times, only to kill the chopper in the 6th hit you've instantly removed 14 tickets, and the most powerful asset in the game for 15 minutes, and all it took was 1 man. Most of the times though you only really need 1 - 3 shots and CAS is bye bye, if not you're doing something wrong.

[paragonid]

I said that a little confusion is not bad enough to limit diversity. There's no contradiction.

I personally wouldn't be confused by different amount of allowed kits, most of the time you try to request it sooner than checking the rest of 47 people in the squads for kits (even then it might be somewhere on the ground).

You want to get rid of confusion? Fine. Give statistics in format:
Kits:
HAT 1/1
AA 2/2
available in some of the game screens or with some of text commands to check availability.

[PeppeJ]

I said that a little confusion is not bad enough to limit diversity. There's no contradiction.

I personally wouldn't be confused by different amount of allowed kits, most of the time you try to request it sooner than checking the rest of 47 people in the squads for kits (even then it might be somewhere on the ground).

You want to get rid of confusion? Fine. Give statistics in format:
Kits:
HAT 1/1
AA 2/2
available in some of the game screens or with some of text commands to check availability.

I would LOVE to have those numbers in game, I'm fairly sure it's possible, but not sure how easy to implement.

A workaround is to check if the kit's available is to just try and request in the middle of nowhere. If you get the "Not available" they are all used, but if you get "You need to be near crate" that means it's available to get.

[rPoXoTauJIo]

I would LOVE to have those numbers in game, I'm fairly sure it's possible, but not sure how easy to implement.

Kit limits are server-side python code, and to have those numbers ingame we'd have to stream them regularly just like caches number. There's numerous problems with this method that making it not worth both server and development resources.

[PeppeJ]

Kit limits are server-side python code, and to have those numbers ingame we'd have to stream them regularly just like caches number. There's numerous problems with this method that making it not worth both server and development resources.

There's no need to stream them regularly, all you have to do is send the new value whenever it changes (new kit, kit removed), and whenever someone connects. I'd imagine it's saved as a py-number as well, so what's that 32 bits*100 = 400 bytes? So with such an implementation that's hardly an issue, but then I'm not sure how BF2 implemented their networking code (although I'd love to get down and dirty in PR code once I have the time).

[rPoXoTauJIo]

There's no need to stream them regularly, all you have to do is send the new value whenever it changes (new kit, kit removed), and whenever someone connects. I'd imagine it's saved as a py-number as well, so what's that 32 bits*100 = 400 bytes? So with such an implementation that's hardly an issue, but then I'm not sure how BF2 implemented their networking code (although I'd love to get down and dirty in PR code once I have the time).

Annnnd get back to pre2008
Bandwith isn't a problem. Problem is that such change isn't worth decrease already low server stability.

[paragonid]

At least maximum amount of kits is constant through round and can be send only once. Or even once per session