Increase manpad limitation

[Piipu]

The reason manpads feel so useless these days is that all ground to air missiles have been nerfed to total uselessness for some reason. The miss chance for a single missile against a target dropping flares has been changed from the earlier value of 75-15% depending on the missile to 90% across all missiles, as Chuva_RD posted on this post. Let me break down what this means.

Realistically, every time you're trying to shoot at a chopper, they're going to drop flares due to the warning already sounding when you're still locking the target. This means that practically every missile you ever get to fire has a 90% chance of missing. This already sounds pretty terrible since most of the time the one shot is all you're going to get, and you need a solid hit to actually bring down a chopper instead of just annoying the pilot a bit.

With a 90% chance of missing, you'll have to fire 7 missiles to have a kill chance of over 50%. Let's say you have a FOB with the AA platform built. That's going to have time for two shots before having to reload. This translates to a 1-0,9^2=19% chance of killing a chopper. If that chopper is a CAS, you know it's going to have a 100% chance of killing the AA launcher if those missiles don't hit, so the CAS chopper in this scenario has a 81% chance of winning.

Even with a manpad near enough the FOB to fire as well, the win chance for the CAS pilot is 73% if all three missiles can fire before the CAS pilot has time to take any of them out. To have a better than even chance against the CAS, right now you'd need to have 3 AA platforms as well as the manpad on the fob. Those 7 missiles launched against the CAS would have a 52% chance of scoring a kill.

Don't try telling me that these numbers sound okay to you. What the nerf to AA has caused is that if you want to have an even chance of downing a CAS, you have to pool all your team's AA assets into a single point, which the CAS pilot can then avoid due to the limited range of AA in PR. This basically gives CAS almost complete freedom to just stomp all ground assets with impunity as long as the enemy can't bring about any air-based AA. That doesn't sound like a fun game for anyone apart from the two players in the CAS.

[dalianplant[x64]]

The reason manpads feel so useless these days is that all ground to air missiles have been nerfed to total uselessness for some reason. The miss chance for a single missile against a target dropping flares has been changed from the earlier value of 75-15% depending on the missile to 90% across all missiles, as Chuva_RD posted on this post. Let me break down what this means.

Realistically, every time you're trying to shoot at a chopper, they're going to drop flares due to the warning already sounding when you're still locking the target. This means that practically every missile you ever get to fire has a 90% chance of missing. This already sounds pretty terrible since most of the time the one shot is all you're going to get, and you need a solid hit to actually bring down a chopper instead of just annoying the pilot a bit.

With a 90% chance of missing, you'll have to fire 7 missiles to have a kill chance of over 50%. Let's say you have a FOB with the AA platform built. That's going to have time for two shots before having to reload. This translates to a 1-0,9^2=19% chance of killing a chopper. If that chopper is a CAS, you know it's going to have a 100% chance of killing the AA launcher if those missiles don't hit, so the CAS chopper in this scenario has a 81% chance of winning.

Even with a manpad near enough the FOB to fire as well, the win chance for the CAS pilot is 73% if all three missiles can fire before the CAS pilot has time to take any of them out. To have a better than even chance against the CAS, right now you'd need to have 3 AA platforms as well as the manpad on the fob. Those 7 missiles launched against the CAS would have a 52% chance of scoring a kill.

Don't try telling me that these numbers sound okay to you. What the nerf to AA has caused is that if you want to have an even chance of downing a CAS, you have to pool all your team's AA assets into a single point, which the CAS pilot can then avoid due to the limited range of AA in PR. This basically gives CAS almost complete freedom to just stomp all ground assets with impunity as long as the enemy can't bring about any air-based AA. That doesn't sound like a fun game for anyone apart from the two players in the CAS.

M8, you don't know shit about how CAS is done.If you think it's so easy then why not go ahead and do this shit yourself?
The thruth is when OP from this thread got raped on saarema there were 5 (FIVE)
people in ONE channel on TS3 talking constantly and planning each attack.

Let me tell you how it works.
Commander puts the UAV 2 minutes before the heli spawns, this gives him enough time to find one target (lets say APC/anti-air) by the time cas is in the air at about 1000alt.
Then cas proceeds with doing a DIVE on that target and if its stationary AA shooting with hydras from BVR to make sure it goes down easily.Keep in mind this all has to do with communicating with the guy in UAV (to make sure the target is down completely) and the guy/s on the ground for the same purpose.
After the attack you back-off towards friendly main and have to spend your time going 1300 alt again because its 100% sure theres gonna be some tryhard in the other teams CAS that's jealous hes fucking shit at it so he has to come try kill us (keep in mind you will get called out after we kill you on all chat).
After we get rid of the tryhards on the other team's heli we have 20 minutes of freedom (which is basically nothing for these slow *** helis) and now im gonna reveal the secret of 70 kills in CAS.
It's called camping fobs (if the enemy team is good), or getting random full squads in the middle of nowhere (if the enemy team is shit).
It was the middle ground on the saarema round OP stated here.
A thing I would suggest people like OP is if the AA seems useless (as retarded as it sounds) DONT FIRE.
Just LOCK.The lock will go through all the flares and continuosly lock (I know this from experience).Even if the pilot pops flares 1 seconds later he will get locked again and this will make him fly away (instead of the opposite you miss and my gunner cannons you).

My whole point is your job as AA requires NO TEAMWORK (LITERALLY) especially if you are using MANPAD.
If you are using STATIC-AA..well anyone can go in trans squad and do 2 supply drops then go back to the crates and do static-aa fob (same done with logi trucks).
The amount of 1 man AA fobs i've done out of rage and had success with is countless.
Not to mention most maps have AAVs which as you might have thought require commander to spot the AAV and then cas to dive/fly-by (deppending on situation) to kill it.(and then theres other threats you have to take into account)




I suggest you watch these videos to see how CAS is done on muttrah.And see for yourself if its as easy and no teamwork-ish as described.

[Piipu]

;2126962']M8, you don't know shit about how CAS is done.If you think it's so easy then angry words blah blah I'm the greatest

The teamwork required by CAS is not that relevant to my argument. What I'm saying is that you need to pool literally all your team's AA assets together to have a decent chance of even scoring a kill against enemy CAS. And on maps like Saaremaa where you don't have any AAVs, the best you can do is one AA placement that gets nuked quickly like you described, plus one manpad who's not gonna do much alone. Just locking the enemy CAS won't do all that much either, since they can just fly away and go kill stuff somewhere else. It doesn't matter how much teamwork that requires if the CAS is basically invulnerable to AA altogether.

Another thing I'd like to note that 5 men on a TS channel isn't anything special. Most of those full squads that you kill are all more than five people together in VOIP. Of course maybe they don't count since they're not part of your special CAS circle, so they don't need to have fun while playing.

[dalianplant[x64]]

The teamwork required by CAS is not that relevant to my argument. What I'm saying is that you need to pool literally all your team's AA assets together to have a decent chance of even scoring a kill against enemy CAS. And on maps like Saaremaa where you don't have any AAVs, the best you can do is one AA placement that gets nuked quickly like you described, plus one manpad who's not gonna do much alone. Just locking the enemy CAS won't do all that much either, since they can just fly away and go kill stuff somewhere else. It doesn't matter how much teamwork that requires if the CAS is basically invulnerable to AA altogether.

Another thing I'd like to note that 5 men on a TS channel isn't anything special. Most of those full squads that you kill are all more than five people together in VOIP. Of course maybe they don't count since they're not part of your special CAS circle, so they don't need to have fun while playing.

Well I really can't understand how you can't kill shit with a kit that requires nothing but aim and shoot (you don't need 8 people to operate a fucking anti-air), and when I use it i hit helis with everyshot and then they either start smoking/burning and RTB or just die.
I'm playing my best and 8 men that are just playing the game ignoring the fact that CAS exists will then complain why they got killed and how AA is useless.Maybe it's time to acknowledge the fact that you might die if you run out in the open like a headless chicken.
Also the guy who made this thread played ONE round where his team got rekt because they didn't build stationary AAs.Perhaps if he instead of coming to complain, tried to build AA he might have had some chance.

I dont know what else to tell you apart from, idk maybe try HAT instead of AA.

But be aware that requires some game-knowledge(hitbox where to shoot etc) and skill which I assume are the two things you lack of.So I dont think you will get anything done in that aspect too..

[Piipu]

;2126967']Well I really can't understand how you can't kill shit with a kit that requires nothing but aim and shoot (you don't need 8 people to operate a fucking anti-air), and when I use it i hit helis with everyshot and then they either start smoking/burning and RTB or just die.
I'm playing my best and 8 men that are just playing the game ignoring the fact that CAS exists will then complain why they got killed and how AA is useless.Maybe it's time to acknowledge the fact that you might die if you run out in the open like a headless chicken.
Also the guy who made this thread played ONE round where his team got rekt because they didn't build stationary AAs.Perhaps if he instead of coming to complain, tried to build AA he might have had some chance.

M8 I don't know when you've last played AA, but it's nerfed to shit from what it used to be. Sure you can still occasionally get lucky, but only one out of ten missiles hitting the target is just ridiculous.

I also like how you assume that OP has to be a 'headless chicken' since they're complaining about CAS being too good. Sounds to me like you don't have any better response to my arguments. I posted proof saying AA has turned to shit in the latest patch or two and that needs to change. Do you have any counterpoint to my argument or are you just here to fling shit at anyone who wants ground units to be useful in this game?

[Jacksonez__]

Well I really can't understand how you can't kill shit with a kit that requires nothing but aim and shoot

I've been wondering exactly the same. AA is easymode. Aim and shoot, if too many flares; fire without locking.

[dalianplant[x64]]

M8 I don't know when you've last played AA, but it's nerfed to shit from what it used to be. Sure you can still occasionally get lucky, but only one out of ten missiles hitting the target is just ridiculous.

I also like how you assume that OP has to be a 'headless chicken' since they're complaining about CAS being too good. Sounds to me like you don't have any better response to my arguments. I posted proof saying AA has turned to shit in the latest patch or two and that needs to change. Do you have any counterpoint to my argument or are you just here to fling shit at anyone who wants ground units to be useful in this game?

AA vs CAS balance was normal back in 0.981 and before that.After the OPEN BETA they did some weird changes and up to this moment the nerfs on CAS are the following slower heli speed/slower missile speed/slower missile turn rate/flares staying up 3 seconds instead of 6 and falling straight down instead of moving with the heli/spawn timer not taking into account the first 5 minutes of the briefing/easier to fly helis meaning anyone could take an attk heli on the other team and kill yours with basically no effort and only patience/helis more vulnerable to 50cal; jeeps; infantry weaponary and other nerfs i cant think or atm.(maps also have severely decreased view-distance = Kashan, Shijia, Xiangshan..)(maps with removed/lowered amount of cas assets = Beirut, Saarema, Kashan, Vadso)

Now are you saying with all these CAS nerfs developers should just give back AA 0.98 properties and have them kill with every shot?During 1.0 the aa was only OP in v1.2
After that they introduced several changes that made it back to normal (given the cas nerfs its pretty okay)

Code: Select all

Updated AA missiles to have higher gravity and reduced deviation. Overall increased AA effectiveness.
Updated handheld AA missiles to get less distracted when having a locked target.

And then there is this..

Code: Select all

Updated AA missile physics to not pull up straightly when they have no lock.

..which is the reason why jets and helis die from redirected missiles every 3rd round reflected in this (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f252-p ... oblem.html) thread.

Not to mention bugs like this (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f26-pr ... eters.html) which prevent you on maps with big VD like Kashan, Bijar to fire from the maximum distance with cannon (cannon being the only useful weapon to take down AA emplacements fast with CAS)