Automatic Rifles OP

[viirusiiseli]

And the majority of the engagements are between 0 to 300m

So? My point was something is not a laser gun just because it can hit something on a range you could do so realistically.

[Mouthpiece]

Why do people always want to nerf everything that has a potential killing power?

[Gerfand]

So? My point was something is not a laser gun just because it can hit something on a range you could do so realistically.

What I mean is that you are going to use the LMG on it high accuracy zone on the majority of the time, and only in few engagements you are going to use that on a greater range.

Why do people always want to nerf everything that has a potential killing power?

At least me,(the necromancer of this post), just want it to be nerfed to the point where its encouraged to used as a suppress fire weapon, and not be used by lone wolfs... while at the same time not being garbage
I know that is a balance weapon, a bit to strong as you have super high accuracy while deployed, but not broke on any shape or form

[Mouthpiece]

I get where you're coming from (your argument), but I don't see its relevance. You said that you mostly want the AR for be more of a suppression based weapon (as I think it's mostly used that way IRL) just because there are some bad apples who could use it as a solo-killing machine. I have been on a year break from PR, but in the last 2 months I seem to have returned, and I usually squad lead whichever squad I play in (except when I know that some other SL is better then me - then I tend to join his squad to soak up his mannerisms of leading the SQ), so I usually see which are the kits lonewolfs tend to request before getting kicked/leaving instantly after a request - and AR in most cases is not one of those kits (the most popular still is sniper, followed by HAT/marksman and even AA (because HAT and AA are so rare) and then the rest).


So I feel we should not fear the AR becoming a killing machine in a lonewolfs hands. Instead we should think of a potentially implementable idea about how to limit the possiblities of a lonewolf/kit-stealer to join a squad, request a kit and leave (or whatever are the other ways for him/them to get his/their hands on a special kit).

Whatddya say? Am I not a little bit right? We don't have to change things because of some bad apples (nowadays there are too many of them though), instead we could think of a way how to counter their tactics. Any ideas?

[LimitJK]

the point you seem to miss is that supression is about the fear to get shot. accuracy is no opposition, but necessity for supression. thats one of the reasons the marines are switching to the iar.

and about the range thing: the pkp (pkm?) scoped of the russian faction already reaches its limitations on appartement to appartement fighting on iron ridge and needs to be improved if at all changed

[Mouthpiece]

the point you seem to miss is that supression is about the fear to get shot. accuracy is no opposition, but necessity for supression. thats one of the reasons the marines are switching to the iar.

This. And also this (the same thing).

This is a game afterall. I had some fear of dying in the first months of playing, but now I feel that the regular old competitiveness has beaten this fear out of me completely. I mean, I don't stay prone if someone is shooting at me IF I have gotten my crosshair on him before going prone - knowing where he is, I just pop up and return fire when I can do it without getting killed (though the success rate is not as big because the bigger the distance, the harder to hit the shooter while getting suppression effect because of his bullets flying by, so we can say that the suppression is working as intended). As nothing can really scare people in a game with a competitive nature.

Of course, not everyone plays the same as I do, especially now (in my last 2 month experience, after being away for a year) - I would say that there's a big influx of new players, and that means that suppression might work against them in both ways (both the blur effect and the real psychological effect, e.g., fear of getting shot, therefore going prone). But people who have played this for a year or one of the older players will keep on functioning under suppressive fire - returning fire, throwing grenades towards the shooter or even just zigzagging away from the bullets. I've noticed that nowadays a lot of people still haven't gotten their heads around the "minimum basics" of PR - especially the shooting mechanics therefore making them "easy to evade/kill enemy" in experienced person eyes.

And I can't imagine If the new players I have to deal with when squadleading (I mean, my squadmates) nowadays would be challenged even more by an AR that basically can only suppress and be less deadly as the killing range would be reduced drastically. In that case I would not ask for the default "medic, breacher, AR, LAT" setup, but I would probably always choose another rifleman in the AR's spot. Hands down.

[Gerfand]

you right, the Lone wolf issue can be solved w/ a good SQL that kick the player, but my problem is that I do not play as much as I played before, and when I play I don't go for the SQL spot, for language reasons (I am playing on NA servers as Divsul has a password that I don't want to get for other reasons), and often I see that guy using one kit and not even playing w/ the squad...
For the second player type, I think I will try to get the AR more often...

But anyway I still think the AR should get an annoying COD recoil, even if it applies only for me

[Murphy]

Ar settle time compared to Rifle settle time balances most engagements to whomever starts their prayer to deviation deities first. Majority of the time the camping AR wins, but if gets suppressed and is forced to move the balance completely shifts into the rifles end of the scenario (this would be at mid-further ranges, in CQB the AR has such a high ROF and a belt of rounds which can be a real tide turner when you're barrel to barrel with an enemy).

[PatrickLA_CA]

What I mean is that you are going to use the LMG on it high accuracy zone on the majority of the time, and only in few engagements you are going to use that on a greater range.

That means you are using it right. And when you use something the way it's supposed to, it should perform.

[solidfire93]

But anyway I still think the AR should get an annoying COD recoil, even if it applies only for me

what do really mean by suppression but not killing ?

you need a gun that can waste a lot of bullets and ammo but yet doesn't do any damage to the enemy team ?

[arjan]

Leave deviation to the military advisors that are on the dev team to advise . I am curious where the feedback is based on that it should be changed as those things are just as lethal in the real world as they can hit perfectly fine with proper techniques over 200-300 meters.

And this:

This is where the COD myths come out, people believe that MGs and ARs are wildly inaccurate bullet hoses. The standard when I was a machine gunner in the army was first round hits with the c6 SF/c2 combo at 1600m, even with a bare naked c6 first burst hits off a bipod out to 800-1000m were not overly difficult. Then you have the c9(m249) which is just as if not more accurate than a c7 rifle.

I've seen guys on exercise perform better than what you are capable of doing in PR. E.g. hitting the deck and get a accurate burst out in less than 4 seconds with the pop up targets going down.

[Gerfand]

what do really mean by suppression but not killing ?

you need a gun that can waste a lot of bullets and ammo but yet doesn't do any damage to the enemy team ?

I never sad that, the only thing that I sad was that it needed more recoil so is treated more as a suppression weapon than an accuracy weapon(while not going crazy on the Nerf, like I sad only the annoying COD recoil... which in that game would be the "Viewkick")

[Hunt3r]

I never sad that, the only thing that I sad was that it needed more recoil so is treated more as a suppression weapon than an accuracy weapon(while not going crazy on the Nerf, like I sad only the annoying COD recoil... which in that game would be the "Viewkick")

This is unrealistic. SAWs are something like 22 pounds and have almost no recoil as a result.

If you're going to nerf ARs/MGs it should be on the basis of things like sight-in and deviation settling time, which is already worse than rifles. The suppression effect should not be changed as fear of staring at a black respawn screen is more than enough of a deterrent.

This game is already highly realistic in the sense that even at 300m it is unlikely that you will be able to rapidly engage and take someone out unless they're AFK and strongly incentivizes closing with the enemy. There is no need to change infantry in this regard.

[oakman26]

Tangentially related, would it make sense to give the MEC AR kit the eotech / irons MG3 and the MG kit the elcan MG3?

The MEC MG3 is both the best AR and the best MG kit in the game currently it seems.

[Heavy Death]

Tangentially related, would it make sense to give the MEC AR kit the eotech / irons MG3 and the MG kit the elcan MG3?

The MEC MG3 is both the best AR and the best MG kit in the game currently it seems.

High recoil makes it less accurate, frequent reloads are a problem aswell. I think it's rather well balanced. As much as I like both variations on MEC, a 200 round box on the ironsighterd M249 is still my best choice.