Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

[chrisweb89]

Druid all helicopters got their speeds cut, and lost the ability to go vertically down, and the speed gained by diving a while back in previous versions. Their only usefull mode now is to fly high and hover around, especially with how hellfires act now. Flying low and fast isn't a possibility.

[Rabbit]

I will probably just make a video showcasing this, I know it can sound like butthurt whining coming from a pilot to people who don't fly that much or at all. From the video at least it should be quite easy to see.

It actually takes a really long time to RTB etc, with already longer reload times it's a waste of time right now with CAS helis.

Nah I am anti cas and I think their speed drop was bad, you are not alone.

[viirusiiseli]

Also another problem kind of related to thread title, jet AT missiles are worthless, because neither a laser target or a guided missile will ever score a direct on a tank reliably. They really need to have a 5-10m kill radius, if they are to be used for armor at all. Jets just aren't as steady as helis to be able to get direct hits on tanks.

[FFG]

Also another problem kind of related to thread title, jet AT missiles are worthless, because neither a laser target or a guided missile will ever score a direct on a tank reliably. They really need to have a 5-10m kill radius, if they are to be used for armor at all. Jets just aren't as steady as helis to be able to get direct hits on tanks.

Agreed, I think its just slightly too hard for your average player to consistently hit LGMs from jets as jets are a lot faster and the window the nuke is alot smaller.

[viirusiiseli]

Agreed, I think its just slightly too hard for your average player to consistently hit LGMs from jets as jets are a lot faster and the window the nuke is alot smaller.

Not even a skilled pilot flying dangerously slow/steady/straight with a skilled gunner can get a reliable direct on a tank.

The shaking is too much, I'm assuming it'll be even worse with the new flight physics because you can't fly steadily for shit with them.

[Mats391]

Not even a skilled pilot flying dangerously slow/steady/straight with a skilled gunner can get a reliable direct on a tank.

The shaking is too much, I'm assuming it'll be even worse with the new flight physics because you can't fly steadily for shit with them.

That got changed for 1.4. Not sure if it was in changelog

Code: Select all

Revision: 25367
Author: mats391
Date: Thursday, 28. July 2016 13:09:33
Message:
WEAPONS: Set jet air-ground-missiles to kill tanks with close miss cause CAS whore are whiny ******* that cant even aim properly fb #4565

[fecht_niko]

Mats learnd from uncle rob how to fix problems.

Thats why PR is getting better and better

[Imdruid]

Mats391;2155020']That got changed for 1.4. Not sure if it was in changelog

Code: Select all

Revision: 25367
Author: mats391
Date: Thursday, 28. July 2016 13:09:33
Message:
WEAPONS: Set jet air-ground-missiles to kill tanks with close miss cause CAS whore are whiny ******* that cant even aim properly fb #4565

It is not about aiming properly. A dive, the only useful thing on let's say muttrah. is the only valid tactic that doesn't get you shot down every time you engage. I can shoot down any hovering cobra on muttrah. And that is no the only map. The cobra should be able to dive and also I get the whole sarcasm thing but, it's unbecoming of a "professional". Cas heli along with trans heli have seen some major nerfs over the years. And some of them are good, but some are also bad. This game engine is not meant for realism like the dev team dreams of it. So having a cobra or apache or havoc being able to dive is quite the comfort to any cas pilot. If you remove the only valid tactic that won't get the pilot and gunner shot down, then you might as well remove the actual asset instead. Because you get the pilot/gunner flamed by other players because they can not act the way they want to, This also comes especially with how flares have been acting. I wish to understand what you all want and what you all want to achieve, but with what you are going for you make this seem like you don't want CAS at all.

Druid all helicopters got their speeds cut, and lost the ability to go vertically down, and the speed gained by diving a while back in previous versions. Their only usefull mode now is to fly high and hover around, especially with how hellfires act now. Flying low and fast isn't a possibility.

I understand, the nerf to CAS has been gradual but steady. They might as well remove all Trans/CAS helis from the game because the way they keep this going. they won't be useful anywhere.

Look the best way to put this is, Diving in CAS is the only viable option in this game, with this engine. Unless you somehow buff CAS air to ground targeting/damage/CAS movement speed. CAS in general is in a terrible spot right now. The DEV team fixed armor warfare. Now fix CAS please.

[viirusiiseli]

I understand, the nerf to CAS has been gradual but steady. They might as well remove all Trans/CAS helis from the game because the way they keep this going. they won't be useful anywhere...

...CAS in general is in a terrible spot right now

Couldn't have said it better myself, CAS was nerfed incredibly hard with several changes (missile turn rate, speed, dmg of missiles etc.)

Not only that, but CAS helis were nerfed to worse ones or removed entirely from several different maps. Thats been the direction for the past 2 years at least. Can only hope a DEV starts to fly CAS and realizes how shit CAS is right now when they can't get anything done with it.

[Rabbit]

Couldn't have said it better myself, CAS was nerfed incredibly hard with several changes (missile turn rate, speed, dmg of missiles etc.)

Not only that, but CAS helis were nerfed to worse ones or removed entirely from several different maps. Thats been the direction for the past 2 years at least. Can only hope a DEV starts to fly CAS and realizes how shit CAS is right now when they can't get anything done with it.

What maps? Only one I can think of was Burger sands.

[Singh408]

What maps? Only one I can think of was Burger sands.

what maps?? shijia, beirut, vadso, wandashan, black gold std, silent eagle alt I can go more

[QuickLoad]

I will probably just make a video showcasing this, I know it can sound like butthurt whining coming from a pilot to people who don't fly that much or at all. From the video at least it should be quite easy to see.

It actually takes a really long time to RTB etc, with already longer reload times it's a waste of time right now with CAS helis.

actually very true, now theres even less reason to be hunting and roaming for targets as your time and ammunition would be better spent going for prioity targets or assisting priority teamates since you have so little time on station. i gotta say the belt fed cannons and MG's take awhile to bingo though.

[Rabbit]

what maps?? shijia, beirut, vadso, wandashan, black gold std, silent eagle alt I can go more

BG still has hind on std though.

[viirusiiseli]

What maps? Only one I can think of was Burger sands.

• Bijar Alt: 2 heli > 1 heli
• Black Gold Alt: SU39 vs Fantan > Hind-F vs Zhi-9 HJ8, Zhi-9 rockets
• Black Gold Std or Lrg: Mi28 and Z10 removed, replaced with Hind-E, Zhi-9 guns
• Burning sands long ago used to have 2 attack helis iirc, but that was years back when alt had 2 gazelles facing apache
• Karbala: 2 kiowas > 1
• Kashan Alt: 2 attack heli+1 light > 1 attack 1 light
• Khami Lrg: hind removed
• Lashkar AAS Alt: Tiger added, removed again
• Saaremaa Lrg: Hind removed
• Sbeneh: Hind removed
• Shijia: All cas removed
• Vadso: Mi28 > Hind-F
• Wanda Shan: Z10 vs Tiger > Zhi-9 rockets, no tiger

It's funny because most of these changes are entirely without good reason, most of those maps had attack helis because they fit in them. Some are just due to the removal of map layer diversity, because having 2 identical layers with different tickets is apparently more appealing.

As a side effect of this, admins have also almost entirely stopped setting any other layer than STD, because there isn't really that much difference in many maps between the layers.

There were also some added CAS helis, but I think the majority of maps or layers they were added on were quite unfitting. A few reasons: too many cas assets already, unfitting pick for the map, or not balanced.

For example Pavlovsk, hind facing harrier. Black gold would be better with jets only in 2 layers, std with 2 Fantan vs 2 SU39. Large with fighter bomber combo. Alt with either 2 Z10s facing 2 Mi28s or Z10 and Zhi9 HJ8 facing 2 Hind-Fs for example.

I think the only layers in AAS that the light helis should be put in is INF. Any other layer is so asset heavy they serve no use. Zhi-9 excluding HJ8, Kiowa, Griffon CAS, EC635, and maybe even Hind-E could see actual uses in infantry layers on larger maps, make them more interesting and even face other such helis in air combat.

Generally maps with jets and attack helis are worthless, because the heli is underpowered, it was like this already before the removal of AAs. The only good combo with jets and helis used to be Qinling: SU30+Z10 vs Tornado+AH64.

A lot of maps have too many CAS assets in them that are badly thought out. Khami's 3 vs 4 jets is silly, so is hades peak with the astounding 4 vs 4 jets in a small view distance map where actually doing CAS is entirely impossible.

Would be much better to have a simple max limit of 2 jets and max 3 helis per team in a map. Keeps it simple, balanced, and usually, doesn't result in infinite dogfighting. Instead CAS could be used for CAS.

[Rabbit]

Sbeneh hind removed

I actually speak for this one as I did it. I had to drop VD and render distance so far you could really notice statics popping in and out, I even seriously considered removing all choppers.