Shotguns

[sweedensniiperr]

That was a satisfying video.

Was good that this was brought up since it something I really don't think about. And weird that it hasn't before. Agree with rebalance.

[Vista]

best part of the video "user entered your channel" "HEHE" i wonder which faggot this was

Hehe, probably some weirdo I dunno

[Murphy]

So walking deviation is the advantage a Shotgun has? Why not keep it that way but adjust the drop-off values to bottom out at 40 meters? If we add rifle levels of deviation to shotguns they will serve no purpose other than opening doors, why not accept the shotgun has unique values and is a different tool for a specific purpose. If we're on about walking deviation I could single out the MP5 as well, that gun is pretty much deadly accurate while on the move beyond 50 meters. An Mp5 would out gun a Shotgun in CQB every time, and there are other SMGs that respond just as well while on the move.

I'm not saying Shotguns do not need adjusting, I would just like to see it stay somewhat "OP" in very close quarters as it is very underpowered in fights over 100 meters. The video only shows fights within 30 meters, and it is quite anecdotal. I'm sure majority of those kills could be scored with ANY WEAPON IN THE GAME. If you're going to post a video crying about how a weapon is op and cherry pick the situations shown you're doing it wrong, try the same thing in a controlled environment with a scientific approach instead of just doing a "wrecked unaware enemies" kill montage video.

[Mouthpiece]

snip

No, you can't go running and gunning with any weapon, just the shotgun.

[inb4banned]

So walking deviation is the advantage a Shotgun has? Why not keep it that way but adjust the drop-off values to bottom out at 40 meters? If we add rifle levels of deviation to shotguns they will serve no purpose other than opening doors, why not accept the shotgun has unique values and is a different tool for a specific purpose. If we're on about walking deviation I could single out the MP5 as well, that gun is pretty much deadly accurate while on the move beyond 50 meters. An Mp5 would out gun a Shotgun in CQB every time, and there are other SMGs that respond just as well while on the move.

I'm not saying Shotguns do not need adjusting, I would just like to see it stay somewhat "OP" in very close quarters as it is very underpowered in fights over 100 meters. The video only shows fights within 30 meters, and it is quite anecdotal. I'm sure majority of those kills could be scored with ANY WEAPON IN THE GAME. If you're going to post a video crying about how a weapon is op and cherry pick the situations shown you're doing it wrong, try the same thing in a controlled environment with a scientific approach instead of just doing a "wrecked unaware enemies" kill montage video.

With any SMG or a rifle you're still very ineffective when not aiming down sights. That's the number 1 problem with the shotgun. You can move faster and aren't faced with the awkward: "Do I rely on RNG and hipfire spray or do I take the time to aim down sights letting him see and shoot me first." That's a big deal.

Then there's the point where breachers have a rifle anyway, so anything you can do I can too + way more in CQB.

Of course a good player can get kills with any weapon, especially on unaware enemies. But the gap between hipfire 1 tapping people with little to no risk and either taking more time to ads and deviate or relying on RNG is huge.

These kills aren't cherry picked at all, I simply put all of the shotgun kills I made over the weekend in there, I played 0 rounds of Dragon Fly or any other map where clearing buildings is a thing. I did kill 6 people covering Mosque on Muttrah but my GPU drivers crashed and I lost the recording.

[schakal811]

I'm sure majority of those kills could be scored with ANY WEAPON IN THE GAME. If you're going to post a video crying about how a weapon is op and cherry pick the situations shown you're doing it wrong, try the same thing in a controlled environment with a scientific approach instead of just doing a "wrecked unaware enemies" kill montage video.

No you are wrong here, he wanted to point out that you dont have to ADS with shotguns, with any other gun it would be a lucky shot killing them hipfire. With shotguns it doesnt matter, cause you hit the center everytime. Not sure how u use shotguns but u dont have to ADS at all. In RL there is no way that you can hipfire with a shotgun and kill people on a daily basis.

Is it possible to lower the deviation quickly while ADS?

[viirusiiseli]

This video shows very little to no situations where most guns couldn't have been used to do the same in a very similar time frame. In addition, rarely do situations in this game allow the shotgun to perform significantly better or faster than another gun used similarly.

While the shotgun has zero deviation while walking, it does only have 6-9 rounds and doesn't always OHK. Rifles have more rounds and even with their deviation, you are able to produce similar results in most situations.

Where the shotgun does admittedly outperform nearly every single other gun ingame is extremely close combat and fast situations. This is exactly what shotguns advantages are in real life and are supposed to be in the game.

And as far as realism goes, hip-firing guns in real life is generally far more accurate than it is in game right now. Up to about 25 meters in real life it is not especially hard to fire a rifle either from the hip or the shoulder while not aiming down the sights.

In fact, having experience in military live fire drills with a 7.62 AK variant, I would always rather shoulder the rifle but not aim down the sights to fire unless the range was more than 25 meters or the target would be very small. Aiming by only looking down the barrel is much quicker and works as well. It makes beginning to fire a lot quicker and you are able to maintain a faster level of movement while engaging, unlike while aiming down the sights.

I would assume the same goes for shotguns, although I have no experience in firing them in such situations.

Spoiler for videos:

https://youtu.be/spEwDdqdvr8?t=33
https://youtu.be/pE1Hzlwtvpc?t=4
https://youtu.be/210D519c1Wo?t=104
With some training: https://youtu.be/ESHpTqjOtWk?t=63

[inb4banned]

This video shows very little to no situations where most guns couldn't have been used to do the same in a very similar time frame. In addition, rarely do situations in this game allow the shotgun to perform significantly better or faster than another gun used similarly.

Oh please, at
0:14 he'd be behind the corner before I'd finish firing first few show because I'd have to stop and aim down sights, at 0:18 it'd be the classic "do I take the time to ads and have him shoot first or do I rely on RNG and hipfire"
0:23 you could never just ads and kill the guy instantly
0:25 you'd have to wait for deviation exposing yourself to the others or you'd shoot and the guy would go prone before you could kill him because you'd have too much deviation
0:58 how long would it take you to kill that guy with a rifle...
1:02 he catches me off guard while I'm searching for the medic kit and he can't even shoot before he dies
2:00 he actually died after the 1st shot (can't hear it here, but can on original), which gun can you do that with?
2:37 good luck doing that with a rifle

And all others are pretty much the same. People are almost always unaware of me because I can hear them well and they tend to be oblivious, always only covering 1 thing. I'm sure you realise PR player standard is very poor atm.

This is retarded gameplay and should be reconsidered. Next stop: OP ARs

[Mats391]

We investigated shotguns and found that their deviation is not working as intended. This is a BF2 issue and we are looking at ways to resolve it.

[Vista]

Funny how the tone of the thread changed when he posted that video

[Mineral]

It's almost if video feedback is one of the best formats


although mats did look into it way before the vid was posted

[DogACTUAL]

-Complain about something noone had an issue with for years.

-Call the behaviour of the shotgun unrealistic, even though it is not so unrealistic afterall as it turns out.

-Totally ignore that the breacher role is intended to be very effective at CQB.

-Get the DEVs to remove the one and only advantage shotguns have over all the other weapons.

-Brace for the incoming complaints about shotguns being too ineffective and how there is no incentive to use them anymore.

With that said, a moderate increase in deviation when not ADS, especially while walking might be justified.
But the breacher should still be able to walk around corners, into rooms or entrenched positions and take out the defenders there quickly while one the move, he is a 'breacher' afterall.

[fecht_niko]

-having played PR for less than a year

-posting stupid or irrelevant suggestions all the time

-making experienced players laugh about the most retarded "tactics" ever read

-still believing to know everything better

With that said, no you contradict yourself again.

[B2P1]

I just spit in the middle of my screen at the start of every round and use that as my crosshair.

[Tit4Tat]

This is the thing, without a crosshair that ban uses and whoever else, shotguns are still very good in cqb (as many pointed out they should be) but not as op in a run and gun situation. I can't stress enough how much of a help a crosshair is for a gun running shotty user. I don't think it shotgun values should be changed just of a video where the user uses crosshair.

My 2 pounds.

[gwa1hir]

This is the thing, without a crosshair that ban uses and whoever else, shotguns are still very good in cqb (as many pointed out they should be) but not as op in a run and gun situation. I can't stress enough how much of a help a crosshair is for a gun running shotty user. I don't think it shotgun values should be changed just of a video where the user uses crosshair.

My 2 pounds.

that was more like 2 pence
DEVs agree its not working as intended. people agree on it being not as it should be and now you come here and just post random "yadda yadda crosshair yadda yadda" and say that nothing has to be changed....
in my personal opinion not even 2 pence

[Tit4Tat]

that was more like 2 pence
DEVs agree its not working as intended. people agree on it being not as it should be and now you come here and just post random "yadda yadda crosshair yadda yadda" and say that nothing has to be changed....
in my personal opinion not even 2 pence

You should change your name to, YaddaYadds, seriously. Cause it seems that's all you been doing recently on the forums.

My 2 sterling pounds.

[Frontliner]

This is the thing, without a crosshair that ban uses and whoever else, shotguns are still very good in cqb (as many pointed out they should be) but not as op in a run and gun situation. I can't stress enough how much of a help a crosshair is for a gun running shotty user. I don't think it shotgun values should be changed just of a video where the user uses crosshair.

My 2 pounds.

The thing is they have no deviation currently, which is one of PR's most defining aspects when talking about infantry combat. That somebody can just run around without having to put that into consideration when engaging someone is quite dumb and unfair. And it doesn't matter that the potential for abuse is higher when you're.... abusing already.

I wondered, a while back when I messed about in local, why those shotgun bots on Fallujah possess godlike aim, now it makes perfect sense lol. I figured something was broken but my money was on the AI cheating rather than there not being deviation on the shottis. Since I don't Co-op ever I didn't bother investigating.

[viirusiiseli]

I can't stress enough how much of a help a crosshair is for a gun running shotty user..

Although, I think a very small deviation could be introduced while walking.

[Tit4Tat]

I understand the argument, yes deviation is near non existing at close range for shotguns, but what I'm stating is, when one has a crosshair and uses a shotgun the magnitude of the situation increases drastically. Try hip fire a pistol at close range, near dead center all the time, unless your got a sharp eye and a steady hand you will struggle to hit people all the time by running and gunning. As a shotgun uses a buckshot, the radius of the pellets is larger and has more chance of hitting. I don't mind deviation increase etc what I do mind is proof been giving based on a person using a crosshair.

Also would like to know if you get the same effect using a 40mm buck shot of the thumper.