[WIP] [Weapon] M2 Carl Gustaf

[w0lf3k]

Hello. My attempt of this recoilless rifle. What i've done so far:





















used refs

tricount = ~9k.

What left: 3d scope(need refs ), ironsight(waiting calibration maybe?) and float geometry for normals.

[VTRaptor]

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f388-p ... mm-rr.html

[Mj Pain]

Great job!
Everything looks really good.

Just seeing some issues..
Backhandle is not really a handle. Its a shoulderrest. Check other refs.

The weapon is also commonly used with the "footpart" inserted. As seen on the pic.
Also..
The padding on the side of the weapon is usually turned to the other side to make room for the soldiers helmet and earprotection. If not, its really hard to get a good sightpicture.
And lastly..
Ironsight are folded when optics are on.
So perhaps you will have to make one ironsight version and one scoped version.

In this doc there is more good refs for the sights.

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-cont ... 01979).pdf

Keep it up the good work!

[w0lf3k]

Mj Pain,
Thank you for feedback. I made shoulderrest variant, but without footpart, because it can make crippling problem with person model.


front-left view.



rear-right view.



preview.

The padding on the side of the weapon is usually turned to the other side to make room for the soldiers helmet and earprotection.

Now my padding is on left side, i need to place it on right?

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-cont ... 01979).pdf

Pure gold.


ref



3d scope view 4k tricount(numbers is heavy)



477 tri



I have question about textures. atm m4 with ACOG have 9(!) materials/textures, i'm confused what must be on what texture sheets.
Also, why 3d scopes not using flat texture with alpha shader instead modelled grid?

[Mj Pain]

Mj Pain,


Now my padding is on left side, i need to place it on right?

Yes. That is the way it´s usually done.

Shoulderrest looks sweet btw.

[w0lf3k]

Preview of UV and mesh with checker. Texture 2k res, padding/bleeding 4 px. Tile coverage ~89%.
This is first planned texture sheet for M2 Gustaf with ironsight.













This is scope texture sheet and checkbox preview. 1k res, padding/bleeding 4px. Tile coverage ~67%.

[Rhino]

The model really needed fully checking over before you started UVing it, as anything that needs fixing will require you to rework your UVs...

As for your UVs, the inside of the launcher shouldn't be taking up 1/4 of your textures, should really be downsized from the rest of the launcher. Although ye, the front/back of the inside are quite prominent, the middle part isn't so could possibly look into saving UV space just by decreasing the rez towards the middle of the tube so that you save space on parts you won't see while keeping the part of the inside you will high rez.
Your UV on the lips between each outer segment are also pretty bad at the moment, right now its 1px or so stretched over them and will look really bad from 1st person.

Anyways, can't give you much more feedback without seeing the model first hand or without more pics etc but I think the model itself needs more work before continuing with the UVs. PM a download link to the model and I'll give it a quick lookover for you if you like.

[w0lf3k]

The model really needed fully checking over before you started UVing it, as anything that needs fixing will require you to rework your UVs...

ops:

As for your UVs, the inside of the launcher shouldn't be taking up 1/4 of your textures

Agreed, but still want keep it somehow at mid-high density forthis.

Your UV on the lips between each outer segment are also pretty bad at the moment, right now its 1px or so stretched over them and will look really bad from 1st person.

I can stitch them to main lip surface.

[Rhino]

Agreed, but still want keep it somehow at mid-high density forthis.

Ye which is why I suggested having the front end high rez, back end low rez, especially since this is going to have a round inside it and won't be totally see through 99% of the time, and will have a big shadow as a result down the middle.

Anyways, first of all, I would always advise to check backface cull on in the objects properties so the mesh draws the same as it does ingame:


Also in Customise>Prefrences, Viewport tab you should have "Backface Cull on object creation checked to" to make sure all new objects have this option by default:


Now you can more easily see hidden faces that can be removed like this one:


You also have a bunch of smoothing errors, mainly from the triangles not being setup correctly for bits of your mesh, should really get your smoothing sorted before UVing and good SGs can also help you with UVing too with selecting faces by SG etc to select elements you want to be stitched together etc:







You also have extra edge loops here and there which aren't needed, just messing up the smoothing and costing tris:







Seems you've sliced this bit, but then not welded it up and optimised it?



Should probably flip this edge to be the other way around? You should really define more of your edges across your model as many things aren't the correct shape since they are not defined and many causing your smoothing errors etc.





Without looking at the refs I would assume the pad should bump out a bit over this bump?


Not sure what these are doing here?


Unless your refs state otherwise, think the top of your rear iron sight could be a lot smoother, players eye is going to be right up to it in for the IS version:


With this block thing being smoothed all over, and being right in front of the player, it really should have more sides to its chamfer than just 1.


Really quick a dirty chamfer to show a bit more how it should be but tbh, I would do the outside of the box again from scratch with decent chamfers:



This I wouldn't model on and would just do by a normal map in the texture:


Also these little rivets I would collapse the every 2nd edge on the inner bit like so and will look pretty much identical as before while saving a few tris per each one, many parts of your model you can apply this to:




And ye as for your inner tube UV I mean this kinda thing, where the front is high rez, but back is low rez, freeing up a lot of room while still keeping it detailed:



And if your worried about the back being to low detail for the reload animation, which tbh, is the time your most likley to best see the inside, then you can add an edge down the middle of the inside which while yes, will increase the tris, will be worth the UV space saved if you use that centre edge in the same way, so the middle is low rez, but front and back are high rez:



But TBH, I would use the first UV optimization for the 3rd person model, where people are going to see in the front, but not in the back (other than in the back reload cone, will probably want to lower its back too the same way btw) but on the 1st person model, the player is never going to be looking down into the front of the barrel unless he plans on blowing his face off with it

As such for the 1st person model, I would recommend doing this:


[/IMG]

And 3rd person this, since they aren't going to see inside during the reload animation and can keep the back of the exhaust thing high rez too:



And apply the same principles to the other parts of the model with similar bits.


Other than that its looking good so far, just try and optimise the model more, fix up the errors and with the savings you make in the optimisations, you can add more smoothness to the bits that need them
I would say that the main tube right now tbh, doesn't have enough sides and is pretty blocky tbh for a 1st person model, can really see the sides from a 1p position, the scope is better but even that could be smoother too:


Right now your tube only has 24 sides where I would recommend an absolute minimum of 32, I would probably say try and aim for 64 sides on the outside and 32 or 48 sides for the inside of the tube and with decent optimization you can get away with that many sides but right now your model is not optimized enough for that many sides.

Hope that helps

[w0lf3k]

Rhino;2169486']
Now you can more easily see hidden faces that can be removed like this one:

Fixed and i'll try to find more.

You also have a bunch of smoothing errors, mainly from the triangles not being setup correctly for bits of your mesh, should really get your smoothing sorted before UVing and good SGs can also help you with UVing too with selecting faces by SG etc to select elements you want to be stitched together etc:

Some of SGs problems appears after export from 18 max. i forgot to fix them with texttools.

Rhino;2169486']

1st fixed, others is export issues.

Rhino;2169486']
You also have extra edge loops here and there which aren't needed, just messing up the smoothing and costing tris:

Deleted. SG's on this fixed.

Rhino;2169486']
Seems you've sliced this bit, but then not welded it up and optimised it?

Missed that, ty! Welded.

Rhino;2169486']
Should probably flip this edge to be the other way around? You should really define more of your edges across your model as many things aren't the correct shape since they are not defined and many causing your smoothing errors etc.

Fixed this and will look more at it.

Rhino;2169486']
Without looking at the refs I would assume the pad should bump out a bit over this bump?

Yeah.

Rhino;2169486']
Not sure what these are doing here?

Just basic meshes for painting with it and later bake normals on it.

Rhino;2169486']
Unless your refs state otherwise, think the top of your rear iron sight could be a lot smoother, players eye is going to be right up to it in for the IS version:

Ok, now its 2x rounder.

With this block thing being smoothed all over, and being right in front of the player, it really should have more sides to its chamfer than just 1.
Really quick a dirty chamfer to show a bit more how it should be but tbh, I would do the outside of the box again from scratch with decent chamfers:

Remodel:

Rhino;2169486']
This I wouldn't model on and would just do by a normal map in the texture:

Ok.

Rhino;2169486']
Also these little rivets I would collapse the every 2nd edge on the inner bit like so and will look pretty much identical as before while saving a few tris per each one, many parts of your model you can apply this to:

Collapsed this from 8 to 4 edges at center, also doing same on similar objects on right side near rear part.

As such for the 1st person model, I would recommend doing this:
And 3rd person this, since they aren't going to see inside during the reload animation and can keep the back of the exhaust thing high rez too:

I assume from that: 1p and 3p not sharing same texture(3p scaled from 1p) and UV?

Right now your tube only has 24 sides where I would recommend an absolute minimum of 32, I would probably say try and aim for 64 sides on the outside and 32 or 48 sides for the inside of the tube and with decent optimization you can get away with that many sides but right now your model is not optimized enough for that many sides.

After all this operation tris reduced from 9048 to 8869.
ATM weight:
Rear part - 802.
Front part - 2029.
Scope - 2184.
Both grips - 280.
Shoulder part - 248.
Tube with trigger - 423.
Ironsight - 374.
Reload grip or smth(part with space between itself and tube) - 425.
Other parts(+pic) - 2104.


I'll look more at faces where you cant see them, but still cant figure out how optimize other things

Hope that helps

It does.

[Rhino]

Some of SGs problems appears after export from 18 max. i'll forget to fix them with texttools.

Ye, one of the main reasons why we don't advise making models in later versions of max, but yours is a pretty impressive backport considering it had only these issues, normally you get much more from backporting.

Ok, now its 2x rounder.

Cool, although might even suggest a tad more

Remodel:

Looks good

Collapsed this from 8 to 4 edges at center, also doing same on similar objects on right side near rear part.

Looks good, although you could possibly even collapse the top face down there to 1 vert, depends on how much you need the silhouette to stay that shape.

I assume from that: 1p and 3p not sharing same texture(3p scaled from 1p) and UV?

Ye, ideally you want separate 1p and 3p models and textures.

Taking the Bren as a quick example, for its 1p model, its 7,750 tris and has a 2048x2048 texture sheet (normal/spec is 1024x1024 and both with no mips)




But its 3rd person model's LOD0 is only 3,083tris and has a texture of 2048x1024 (1/2 the 1p texture size, 1024x512 normal and spec map, although both could be lower & both have full mips) and it is baked off the 1p model/textures:




For now, just worry about the high detail 1p model and the 3p model comes later

After all this operation tris reduced from 9048 to 8869.
ATM weight:
Rear part - 802.
Front part - 2029.
Scope - 2184.
Both grips - 280.
Shoulder part - 248.
Tube with trigger - 423.
Ironsight - 374.
Reload grip or smth(part with space between itself and tube) - 425.
Other parts(+pic) - 2104.


I'll look more at faces where you cant see them, but still cant figure out how optimize other things

Ye, it's unlikely you're going to find any massive reductions without removing some details but some details like that bit on the right side of the pistol grip, are best done with the normal map and won't be seen in 1p anyways so you can easily remove them, saving both tris and UV space

And ye, you can go a bit overboard on the tris for the 1p model as long as you have a well optimized 3p model to go with it and try and keep things as optimized as possible

[w0lf3k]

Bit on the right side of the pistol grip, are best done with the normal map and won't be seen in 1p anyways so you can easily remove them

I remove it from 1p mesh to float geometry for normal baking.

And ye, you can go a bit overboard on the tris for the 1p model

U mean rounding scope and body up to 32/64 edges?

[Rhino]

yes


.

[Mj Pain]

Some details..
Fronthandle dont have the this deep groove in it and newer plastic replacementhandles are totally smooth. Older woodenhandles do have small grooves on the sides.


The back ironsight has a small protective steelring around it.
See page 11 in the doc..
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-cont ... 01979).pdf




Front ironsight has pins on the sides to help with aiming on moving targets.
See page 11 in doc..
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-cont ... 01979).pdf


Thanks for your work.

[w0lf3k]

64 edge body and 32 edge rear part of scope.
Front part.

On refs padding at middle looks smooths, so dunno, should i delete those loops or keep them for small deformation?




Rear part.



Scope, but i dont know, only add edges on rear side or on all mesh?



tricount - 12.5k But i'm sure that i can make proper and decent lods

[w0lf3k]

Fronthandle dont have the this deep groove in it

Okay, i make them smoother with other faces.

The back ironsight has a small protective steelring around it.

On my ref it is absent.

Front ironsight has pins on the sides to help with aiming on moving targets.

Yes, i remember, i place there just box because i want to wait calibration between front and rear ironsights. Most likely i will rotate some parts of front ironsight and just set there reference point.

[Rhino]

Some details..
Fronthandle dont have the this deep groove in it and newer plastic replacementhandles are totally smooth. Older woodenhandles do have small grooves on the sides.

Plus I forgot to mention that there is little point having those 3D details there, they are best done as normal maps and also take note that the pistol grip is pretty much always covered by the player's hand in both 1p and 3p so not worth spending that many tris there.

64 edge body and 32 edge rear part of scope.
Front part.

looks good

On refs padding at middle looks smooths, so dunno, should i delete those loops or keep them for small deformation?

If you can't see it on the refs then ye, get rid of it, and could also be done a bit by normal maps too if need be.

Scope, but i dont know, only add edges on rear side or on all mesh?

I would smooth out the entire scope a bit more but ye, rear part is the most important, and anything that silhouettes like that knob sticking out the top etc could really do with more sides, and the scope cap etc. Also that knob on the bottom left of the scope that has that inside hole, you can collapse every other edge to make its hole lower poly and the edges around it too, while the biggest outside bit could be a bit smoother.

tricount - 12.5k But i'm sure that i can make proper and decent lods

Ye, for a 1p model that's fine and still got areas you can optimise

[w0lf3k]

Plus I forgot to mention that there is little point having those 3D details there, they are best done as normal maps and also take note that the pistol grip is pretty much always covered by the player's hand in both 1p and 3p so not worth spending that many tris there.

If you can't see it on the refs then ye, get rid of it, and could also be done a bit by normal maps too if need be.

I delete those edges at middle, but it is worth of collapsing 1/2 of this edges on both sides of lips?

I would smooth out the entire scope a bit more but ye, rear part is the most important, and anything that silhouettes like that knob sticking out the top etc could really do with more sides, and the scope cap etc. Also that knob on the bottom left of the scope that has that inside hole, you can collapse every other edge to make its hole lower poly and the edges around it too, while the biggest outside bit could be a bit smoother.

[w0lf3k]

I have checked model again.

Delete edges on padding and its look almost same.


Delete some loops around trigger circle inside and outside, and weld some vertexes from sliceplane on mainbody.

Collapsed this on shoulderrest.


Here

And this on ironsight, as almost invisible part and not important for whole mesh.



Overall -200 tris But honestly cant find anything more, may i ask you revise model again, Rhino?

[Rhino]

looks good, main thing I would say from those pics is the last one here: http://i.imgur.com/eO0pqmc.png

That cylinder sticking though I would just remove and do it though normal maps, it will just zfight and isn't worth the tris and especially not the UV space which 90% of it isn't even seen.