A list of unrealistic game mechanics

[Lugi]

Motivated by some other threads, I would like to make a list of unrealistic game mechanics, BUT only those that actually do not benefit the gameplay - spawning on fobs is most certainly an unrealistic mechanic, but it is essential to the gameplay. Another type of entries excluded from the list are the ones that are a result of game engine limitations - i.e. 8 seats on a Chinook.
This should allow to get some insight into what kind of things in-game could be changed to make it both more realistic and more enjoyable.

So I'll start:
-APCs putting a big pile of smoke on top of them, then just seeing clearly through thermals while being invisible to everyone

-armour gameplay that relies heavily on LISTENING for the enemy vehicles

-useless commander - he is mostly just an UAV operator, but I think this is both because of the role being underpowered, and people not being used to having someone above you in chain of command as a squadleader

-heavy weapon handling - while for hand-held weapon like MG or HAT it's probably an engine limitation, mounted heavy weapons like M2HB on hummvee shoukd in no way be allowed to be swung around like it was a pistol. After all youre trying to move a 40 kg gun, as well as the turret it is mounted on, which adds probably another 40-80 kg.

[agentlegend]

Commander is very good having a birds eye view telling you where the enemy is , best thing ever unless you have a bad commander

[Jacksonez__]

Motivated by some other threads, I would like to make a list of unrealistic game mechanics, BUT only those that actually do not benefit the gameplay - spawning on fobs is most certainly an unrealistic mechanic, but it is essential to the gameplay. Another type of entries excluded from the list are the ones that are a result of game engine limitations - i.e. 8 seats on a Chinook.
This should allow to get some insight into what kind of things in-game could be changed to make it both more realistic and more enjoyable.

So I'll start:
-APCs putting a big pile of smoke on top of them, then just seeing clearly through thermals while being invisible to everyone

-armour gameplay that relies heavily on LISTENING for the enemy vehicles

-heavy weapon handling - while for hand-held weapon like MG or HAT it's probably an engine limitation, mounted heavy weapons like M2HB on hummvee shoukd in no way be allowed to be swung around like it was a pistol. After all youre trying to move a 40 kg gun, as well as the turret it is mounted on, which adds probably another 40-80 kg.

well aren't those things pretty much real life stuff.

Armor usually has (IR) self-defense smoke screens
you can't operate armor deaf in real life tbh
The HMMWV 50.cal is probably on ball bearing which makes it easy to turn, or that would make sense to me.

E: I have no idea why I even googled this shit: https://www.quora.com/How-do-Humvee-turrets-turn

[AlonTavor]

Non of these are really unrealistic, There are far worse problems in the game in terms of realism...

[LEGIYA]

well aren't those things pretty much real life stuff.

Armor usually has (IR) self-defense smoke screens
you can't operate armor deaf in real life tbh
The HMMWV 50.cal is probably on ball bearing which makes it easy to turn, or that would make sense to me.

E: I have no idea why I even googled this shit: https://www.quora.com/How-do-Humvee-turrets-turn

The smoke that gunner uses is different from regular INF smoke...

[LEGIYA]

Non of these are really unrealistic, There are far worse problems in the game in terms of realism...

Sorry,i cannot find a video showing how driver or INF man in battle throw there smokes on top of apc.

[bahiakof]

-useless commander - he is mostly just an UAV operator, but I think this is both because of the role being underpowered, and people not being used to having someone above you in chain of command as a squadleader

In fact, the commander is not useful in BF2: Project Reality, because for some reason, they gave squad leaders the same functions that were unique to the Commander, which was: set where to build FOB, mark enemies on the map, and Voip radio to all the leaders (all mumble - tecla *).

See, the idea of turning the Project Reality Commander into a "GENERAL" failed, because in public servers and even in events it is the Squad Leader who is commanding the whole team, not the Commander.

[Jabil_One]

That things should be removed in my opinion :

Infinity rifleman kits requestable at crates. At all the ability to request infinity kits at a crate.

Antipathy vs. ammo drop for Tanks/APC's in the fields.

.......

[Valmont]

How about this idea to increase the spawn realism:

1) Remove spawning from fobs and rally points as it is now.
2) Make it so that in order to spawn near a fob you need a transport vehicle nearby (And players spawn in those vehicles).
3) Make it so that transport vehicles automatically become rally points when a squadleader is in them and inside friendly territory/flag.
4) Depending on the transport vehicle size it will have X amount of spawn points that refresh every XX number of minutes simulating the vehicle going back to base, getting the troops and then driving back to the battlefield.
5) In order for this change to work there must spawn enough transport vehicles to accommodate 50 players.
6) Once destroyed new transport vehicles re-spawn at main after XX amount of time. This time should be quite high so it is more reliable to RTB for repairs than to just wait for a new spawn.
7) IMPORTANT: Vehicles are not spawn points everywhere. They must be near a FOB or with a SQ leader inside and on friendly territory for them to work as spawn points.
Transport helicopters are also spawn points when a squadleader is in them and only for his squad and when landed on friendly territory. This will render the helis a easy target so pilots must be very careful of where to land in order to become spawnpoints. Also Helicopters spawn points regenerate much faster simulating them RTB and then back to the field much faster.
9) Transports should STOP being spawn points if damaged more then 40% their health.
10) Armored vehicles like APCs do not become spawnpoints when near fobs but they do when a SQ leader is in them but only for their squad and on friendly territory.
11) Bases/carriers/parachutes etc are still spawnpoints and vehicles are not required to spawn there.
12) Vehicles should not be able to work as spawn points if enemies are too close to them.

Possible Benefits of this:
- Will make transport vehicles much more valuable and also a much more valuable target that needs to be well defended by heavy assets/infantry all the time etc.
- Will make the game more realistic, stoping players from complaining about magically spawning reinforcements on infantry only squads etc.
- Squads who lost members on enemy territory would have to "fall back" to friendly territory in order to repopulate their squads giving time to the defenders to re-setup their defenses.
- Squads will move much faster across the battlefield creating a more dynamic combat scenario.
- Scout squads become more important to rely info about possible danger zones for transport vehicles.
- CAS Becomes KEY to stoping enemy spawn advance.
- Creates a more realistic combat flow: basically teams will take their transport to "safe" locations, protected by heavy assets and then infantry would dismount, build a FOB so those transports can be used as spawn points and only then proceed on foot to take a nearby flag and only after the flag is completely secure bring the transport into the flag to pick up the infantry. Rinse a repeat for next flag/important location.
- Promotes the use of Ambushes and Mines, destroying of bridges etc.
- Since it is very hard/risky to resupply troops on enemy territory, it will make territory control and flags much more important than they are now.
- FOBs would need to be well defended and most will require all static objects built around them to protect the vehicles acting as spawn points near them.
- Good placement of FOBs is even more important now as locations that provide "natural defenses" are key to keeping the transport vehicles operational.
- Destroying the enemy FOBs and/or the vehicles around them become both a viable option/tactic to diminish enemy presence in an area. (A Squad with no C4 could still disable a FOB by destroying the vehicles near them, likewise a single C4 that destroys the FOB can render all the vehicles nearby unable to spawn reinforcements.

Potential Problems with this:
- Well managed teams could easily over run less experienced ones and win matches very fast.
- CAS could become TOO important so bad CAS pilots would be felt harder and perhaps represent the downfall of a side much strongly.
- A team that looses most of their transports in a short period of time would probably end up loosing many flags or perhaps the entire game.
- Engine limitations regarding vehicles as a spawn point/ amount of vehicles.
- It could alienate legacy players (this could be addressed by making this a game mode on its own, say rsCNC: "realistic spawn CNC")
- It will hurt "infantry only" squads that are used to special ops heavily into enemy territory with no vehicle support, since they would require heavy support from the TRANS squad using specialized transports like helis. On the other side the TRANS team will become the main focus now instead of being the "noobs that dont know how to shoot squad" to the "OMG you saved us and won us the match Squad"
- Even if it promotes a more mobile gameplay, using more of the map, it also requires more planning and meticulous teamplay specially when attacking. Since attacking could become harder and more dangerous (ONE bad/good attack could mean the the game) then a defense strategy might become the standard strategy for this mode making its gameplay slower that it currently is.
- Makes it too easy to spot enemy FOBS (tough it is like that in Real Life)
- Renders FOBS deep on enemy territory almost not viable since there is no way to bring transport safely to those locations and it is even harder to defend them. (Thou it will be alot more realistic like this, since no real army is able to magically spawn troops deep into enemy territory without using some sort of transport).

Final problem: This has probably been suggested before and it hasn't been implemented for very good reasons!
In this mode, lots of previously viable tactics will die but new ones will emerge.

[LEGIYA]

How about this idea to increase the spawn realism:

1) Remove spawning from fobs and rally points as it is now.
2) Make it so that in order to spawn near a fob you need a transport vehicle nearby (And players spawn in those vehicles).
3) Make it so that transport vehicles automatically become rally points when a squadleader is in them and inside friendly territory/flag.
4) Depending on the transport vehicle size it will have X amount of spawn points that refresh every XX number of minutes simulating the vehicle going back to base, getting the troops and then driving back to the battlefield.
5) In order for this change to work there must spawn enough transport vehicles to accommodate 50 players.
6) Once destroyed new transport vehicles re-spawn at main after XX amount of time. This time should be quite high so it is more reliable to RTB for repairs than to just wait for a new spawn.
7) IMPORTANT: Vehicles are not spawn points everywhere. They must be near a FOB or with a SQ leader inside and on friendly territory for them to work as spawn points.
Transport helicopters are also spawn points when a squadleader is in them and only for his squad and when landed on friendly territory. This will render the helis a easy target so pilots must be very careful of where to land in order to become spawnpoints. Also Helicopters spawn points regenerate much faster simulating them RTB and then back to the field much faster.
9) Transports should STOP being spawn points if damaged more then 40% their health.
10) Armored vehicles like APCs do not become spawnpoints when near fobs but they do when a SQ leader is in them but only for their squad and on friendly territory.
11) Bases/carriers/parachutes etc are still spawnpoints and vehicles are not required to spawn there.
12) Vehicles should not be able to work as spawn points if enemies are too close to them.

Possible Benefits of this:
- Will make transport vehicles much more valuable and also a much more valuable target that needs to be well defended by heavy assets/infantry all the time etc.
- Will make the game more realistic, stoping players from complaining about magically spawning reinforcements on infantry only squads etc.
- Squads who lost members on enemy territory would have to "fall back" to friendly territory in order to repopulate their squads giving time to the defenders to re-setup their defenses.
- Squads will move much faster across the battlefield creating a more dynamic combat scenario.
- Scout squads become more important to rely info about possible danger zones for transport vehicles.
- CAS Becomes KEY to stoping enemy spawn advance.
- Creates a more realistic combat flow: basically teams will take their transport to "safe" locations, protected by heavy assets and then infantry would dismount, build a FOB so those transports can be used as spawn points and only then proceed on foot to take a nearby flag and only after the flag is completely secure bring the transport into the flag to pick up the infantry. Rinse a repeat for next flag/important location.
- Promotes the use of Ambushes and Mines, destroying of bridges etc.
- Since it is very hard/risky to resupply troops on enemy territory, it will make territory control and flags much more important than they are now.
- FOBs would need to be well defended and most will require all static objects built around them to protect the vehicles acting as spawn points near them.
- Good placement of FOBs is even more important now as locations that provide "natural defenses" are key to keeping the transport vehicles operational.
- Destroying the enemy FOBs and/or the vehicles around them become both a viable option/tactic to diminish enemy presence in an area. (A Squad with no C4 could still disable a FOB by destroying the vehicles near them, likewise a single C4 that destroys the FOB can render all the vehicles nearby unable to spawn reinforcements.

Potential Problems with this:
- Well managed teams could easily over run less experienced ones and win matches very fast.
- CAS could become TOO important so bad CAS pilots would be felt harder and perhaps represent the downfall of a side much strongly.
- A team that looses most of their transports in a short period of time would probably end up loosing many flags or perhaps the entire game.
- Engine limitations regarding vehicles as a spawn point/ amount of vehicles.
- It could alienate legacy players (this could be addressed by making this a game mode on its own, say rsCNC: "realistic spawn CNC")
- It will hurt "infantry only" squads that are used to special ops heavily into enemy territory with no vehicle support, since they would require heavy support from the TRANS squad using specialized transports like helis. On the other side the TRANS team will become the main focus now instead of being the "noobs that dont know how to shoot squad" to the "OMG you saved us and won us the match Squad"
- Even if it promotes a more mobile gameplay, using more of the map, it also requires more planning and meticulous teamplay specially when attacking. Since attacking could become harder and more dangerous (ONE bad/good attack could mean the the game) then a defense strategy might become the standard strategy for this mode making its gameplay slower that it currently is.
- Makes it too easy to spot enemy FOBS (tough it is like that in Real Life)
- Renders FOBS deep on enemy territory almost not viable since there is no way to bring transport safely to those locations and it is even harder to defend them. (Thou it will be alot more realistic like these, since no real army is able to magically spawn troops deep on enemy territory).

Final problem: This has probably been suggested before and it hasn't been implemented for very good reasons!
In this mode, lots of previously viable tactics will die but new ones will emerge.

Really good ideas.
We have/had vehicles for spawn points on Muttrah,so this might be possible...

[Lugi]

well aren't those things pretty much real life stuff.

Armor usually has (IR) self-defense smoke screens

Yup, but they dont stay in one place and the driver doesnt keep popping smoke grenades on it to hide his vehicle.[/QUOTE]

you can't operate armor deaf in real life tbh

But armor combat doesn't look like in PR: go into some spot, cut your engine off and then listen for enemy tanks.

The HMMWV 50.cal is probably on ball bearing which makes it easy to turn, or that would make sense to me.

Even if it moved with no friction at all it is not that easy to swing around 100 kg of metal. Just look how TOWs are handled in this game.

Non of these are really unrealistic, There are far worse problems in the game in terms of realism...

But there's no reason we can't change them, if it's gonna benefit both gameplay and realism. If there are far worse problems you know of I'd be happy if you listed them here.

Also I don't say these things are what's worst in the game right now, it's just 3 things that came into my mind right off the bat.

[Lugi]

To all the shitposting retards: please, either contribute to the discussion, or just shut the fuck up.

Another thing that is kinda meh to me is the offroad capabilities of most wheeled vehicles. Of course, military equipment should be able to move on almost any surface, but making it behave in exactly the same way driving through the middle of the forest as when driving on a paved road is just wrong.

[Tackleberry86]

I don't know but the tank gameplay isn't " realistic" at all. It's not a game mechanic but rather the player's action. A lot of times they are playing hide and seek for 30 min, getting killed by cas, spawing in again and go afk for 20+ min until the next tank is available.....

Tanks should support the infantry and inf should support armor.

[AfterDune]

I've removed a bunch of very off-topic posts. Please stay on topic, or don't post at all. Thanks!

[Jacksonez__]

How do you simulate 1:1 realism in game that is over 12 years old? Like, you cant have it all. PR is already pushing the engine to its limits. Comparing vanilla BF2 and nowadays PR, devs made PR 10500x more realistic

ot: Wondering why nobody has mentioned bloody screen

E:

Even if it moved with no friction at all it is not that easy to swing around 100 kg of metal. Just look how TOWs are handled in this game.

well moving tow on its tripod isn't that hard irl. Though I agree, it could be little bit slower to turn

[agus92]

To all the shitposting retards: please, either contribute to the discussion, or just shut the fuck up.

Another thing that is kinda meh to me is the offroad capabilities of most wheeled vehicles. Of course, military equipment should be able to move on almost any surface, but making it behave in exactly the same way driving through the middle of the forest as when driving on a paved road is just wrong.

You make an excellent point. Roads should have more value, and they can be ignored completely even by wheeled vehicles.

[agus92]

I don't know but the tank gameplay isn't " realistic" at all. It's not a game mechanic but rather the player's action. A lot of times they are playing hide and seek for 30 min, getting killed by cas, spawing in again and go afk for 20+ min until the next tank is available.....

Tanks should support the infantry and inf should support armor.

While true, I can even get a pass to tanks. What really gets into my nerves is APC's refusing to carry inf. Which is their fucking job.

[Lugi]

How do you simulate 1:1 realism in game that is over 12 years old? Like, you cant have it all. PR is already pushing the engine to its limits. Comparing vanilla BF2 and nowadays PR, devs made PR 10500x more realistic

ot: Wondering why nobody has mentioned bloody screen

But still, we can push realism even further in places where it can benefit gameplay.

Bloody screen is a compromise, there needs to be something that reduces the effectivenes of wounded personel. If you have a better idea im all ears.

While true, I can even get a pass to tanks. What really gets into my nerves is APC's refusing to carry inf. Which is their fucking job.

I think this is because we have 8-man squads that dont fit in one APC. Back when PR was only 64 players I remember getting rides from the APCs much more frequently.

[LEGIYA]

I don't know but the tank gameplay isn't " realistic" at all. It's not a game mechanic but rather the player's action. A lot of times they are playing hide and seek for 30 min, getting killed by cas, spawing in again and go afk for 20+ min until the next tank is available.....

Tanks should support the infantry and inf should support armor.

You are right.
Irl armour is there to support INF,not hunt each other like in this game...

[bahiakof]

-The "GIVE UP" is not only not real, but also discourages the use of the combat medic in the squad and greatly harms the team that has irresponsible players who abuse it, ex: 3/30 = -60 tickets

While true, I can even get a pass to tanks. What really gets into my nerves is APC's refusing to carry inf. Which is their fucking job.

This would be solved by placing vehicles with APC (armoured personnel carrier) classification, to provide suply medium, this would require that all APCs be used as safe transportation vehicles and land logistics.

It is necessary to separate the APC from the IFV (infantry fighting vehicle) based on its armament and armor. They need to be forced to work the right way. The infantry would be satisfied.

APC (low armor and low firepower): Transport and logistics
IFV (higher armor and higher firepower): Frontline support