Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

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Heavy Death
Posts: 1303
Joined: 2012-10-21 10:51

Arnoldio's (One-Life) Damage Model

Post by Heavy Death »

Having liked Zwillings idea very much (although implemented very badly), I decided to continue his work making "damage" realistc and yet balanced at the same time.

How? The current system is based on shots-to-kill which is reasonable for gameplay, Zwillings idea is based on bullet exit kinetic energy, which is mathematically correct, Vista's edit is based on ROF balance which is fair but too meta for PR. I decided to work from the receiving end, meaning that all bullets hurt, therefore basing the damage on the physical effect and disabling chatacteristics on the victim. Instakill from headshot also makes a return and snipers lose the 2x modifier, however have match grade ammo with heavier load. This system is primarily created for One-Life events, but can be used in core PR if one so desires, with minimal to no tweaks.

But Arnoldio, how is this system balanced at all, all weapons do substantial damage and the caliber does minimal difference, this is outrageous! Caliber and load makes a difference at damage dropoff over time. These ratios are where Zwillings system shines and are proportionally used here aswell. 7.62mm retains energy over distance, 9mm from a pistol however loses out on velocity far quicker. The effects in close range are very detrimental to health in both cases though, pistol slightly less so. The dropoff overtime not only simulates loss of kinetic energy but also bullet characteristics and a variable hit position at ranges, which cannot be properly simulated on BF2 engine, but in this case gameplay>realism. Balance is achieved by making weapons lethal close to medium range, which puts ROF and recoil to less advantage and aiming to hit accurately and sooner more prevalent.

The underlying system works as such:
  • Pistol fired projectiles have 45 base damage against unarmored torso.
  • Smaller rifle rounds have 90 base damage against unarmored torso.
  • Larger rifle rounds have 90 base damage against unarmored torso.
  • DMR rifles have 95 base damage against unarmored torso.
  • Sniper rifles have 100 base damage against unarmored torso.
All projectiles don't have the same ammount of penetration however.
  • Common, non-pointed pistol rounds and shotgun pellets are 66% effective against plate amor and 83% effective against kevlar vest.
  • Pointed pistol rounds and smaller caliber pointy bullets are 75% effective against plate armor and 86% effective against kevlar vest.
  • Large diameter bullets have 83% effective against plate armor and 95% effective against kevlar vest.
All rounds lose damage overtime, pistol round damage starts dropping off at about 50m, rifle rounds at about 250m and largest rounds at about 500m. This not only simulates the energy reduction and various flight characteristics, but also hit position "variation", meaning a torso hit at 400m can mean a shot through the heart or a graze on the side, which would respectively deal 100 and 10 damage, but with this system it translates to about 75 damage.
Headshots are instant death - This way snipers still get the confirmed kill, if their marksmanship is sufficient.
Limb shots (arms and legs in their entirety) are 45 damage for all projectiles, based on the premise that if 50% if limb usage is compromised, the bloodloss is severe and ability to fight is heavily compromised.

100 - Full Health
75 - Bleeding starts. The ammount of damage is sufficient to bother the victim. Medical attention is not urgent, but desirable, as health drops overtime.
10 - Victim enters a critical state. High physical damage/ blood loss/ loss of limb functionality/ shock trauma/ loss of cognitive ability are simulated at that point. Medical assistance is urgent.
0 - Victim enters a state of unconciousness.
-420 (I guess) - Death.

All rifles do significant damage and result to two shot kills at close to med ranges. This simulates the adrenaline, damage and physical shock at once. System is not too harsh due to the fact that the victim has about 1 minute to retaliate, although with impaired abilities, and a patch can stabilise the situation. In the case of armoured combatant, the effect is even weaker. This system encourages shooting from cover and punishes exposure. Even a debilitating shot to unarmored torso at 200m means that the victim is in b&w state but can retreat to cover to use a patch and get medical help, whereas traversing open ground means that a follow-up shot is easily achievable, or bleed-out imminent if they have used the patch already.

Ultimately, there can be slight changes in bullet damage (up to + 7 or so) depending on calibers to simulate how much time you have left in the black and white state and change of point when the bullet starts losing damage, to make the decline less steep and thus more "believable". I did not make any charts as the system is pretty unified and only the damage dropoff points make a difference. System will be used in One-Life events to increase lethality and realism and will be tweaked if I so desire. Files are readily avaliable to the R-DEV team aswell if they deem the system worthwile.
Last edited by Heavy Death on 2017-10-27 18:30, edited 2 times in total.
Vista
Posts: 1282
Joined: 2011-04-30 10:36

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by Vista »

Heavy Death wrote: Files are readily avaliable to the R-DEV team aswell if they deem the system worthwile.
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But seriously, if you want to, you can try this in a one life event. You need to lock the server and force everyone to download a modified version of the map you want to play in, though.

Good effort, thanks for explaining the concept. Good luck trying to get this to the DEVs, I tried ;)
DogACTUAL
Posts: 879
Joined: 2016-05-21 01:13

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by DogACTUAL »

With respect Vista, but your take on weapon damage based entirely on ROF would completely go against the realism aspect of PR (which makes PR different from regular shooters and imo is one of the biggest facilitators of tactical gameplay and teamwork). A balance approach such as yours is better suited for casual shooters where the players don't care about any sort of realism.

Two rifles that have a different ROF, but use the same cartridge, just can't have a big difference in DMG per shot just for the sake of forcing weapons to be 'fair'. In PR there has to be a base level of authenticity concerning weapon systems, and while yes, there are many casual elements for better gameplay or because of engine limits, there are none of the kind your DMG system would be.

I like Arnold's system quite a lot, because it is based on terminal ballistics, which is ultimately the deciding factor on how a cartridge performs against a soldier. Of course kinetic energy plays a role, but only insofar in how it affects the terminal ballistics. I believe if the previous model had been based on that instead of solely kinetic energy it would have been received far better by the community.

Arnold put it best, all bullets hurt (even if their KE might seem low).
mectus11
PR:BF2 Developer
Posts: 805
Joined: 2015-09-05 19:44

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by mectus11 »

DogACTUAL wrote:With respect Vista, but your take on weapon damage based entirely on ROF would completely go against the realism aspect of PR (which makes PR different from regular shooters and imo is one of the biggest facilitators of tactical gameplay and teamwork). A balance approach such as yours is better suited for casual shooters where the players don't care about any sort of realism.

Two rifles that have a different ROF, but use the same cartridge, just can't have a big difference in DMG per shot just for the sake of forcing weapons to be 'fair'. In PR there has to be a base level of authenticity concerning weapon systems, and while yes, there are many casual elements for better gameplay or because of engine limits, there are none of the kind your DMG system would be.

I like Arnold's system quite a lot, because it is based on terminal ballistics, which is ultimately the deciding factor on how a cartridge performs against a soldier. Of course kinetic energy plays a role, but only insofar in how it affects the terminal ballistics. I believe if the previous model had been based on that instead of solely kinetic energy it would have been received far better by the community.

Arnold put it best, all bullets hurt (even if their KE might seem low).
Please don't derail this thread with your opinion on something that's in a totally different thread.

This is interesting Arnoldio, I'm definetly looking forward to it if you're going to test it in a one-life event possibly.
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Lugi
Posts: 590
Joined: 2010-10-15 21:36

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by Lugi »

Heavy Death wrote:It's already on the server and will indeed be used in all future onelife events.
Is this change fully on the server side?
rPoXoTauJIo
PR:BF2 Developer
Posts: 1979
Joined: 2011-07-20 10:02

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by rPoXoTauJIo »

Heavy Death wrote:It's already on the server and will indeed be used in all future onelife events.
It would be very interesting for me to hear how it's done on your side :p
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assetruler69: I've seen things you smurfs wouldn't believe. Apaches on the Kashan. I watched burned down tank hulls after the launch of the single TOW. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

Time to give up and respawn.
Heavy Death
Posts: 1303
Joined: 2012-10-21 10:51

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by Heavy Death »

This thing is getting expanded.

I have remembered that grenades don't kill if standing on it, so that has been fixed, grenade damage vs human body does enough damage to kill outright if standing very close. At about 5m it is only critwounded, which is also nice.

Then I rummaged through the APC rounds and found that they also don't kill, not even in the head. PR logic, 25mm to the head hurts less than the same round to the torso, and is pretty weak by itself, so that is getting a rework aswell, together with RPGs, ATGMs and so on.

I also remembered that if 7.62 does 90 damage,what does this mean to shitboxes like BRDM2, so I tested it. Full mag (150rnds) of MG3 to the sides or the rear begins sparkling, full mag to the front does just about nothing. About 80 rounds or so to the G-Wagon makes it explode. Fits in perfectly - Car internals, including passengers are weak and not protected, if this was a simulation there would be also tires to pop, same goes for the BRDM2 - Has to be taken with a grain of imagination.
Heavy Death
Posts: 1303
Joined: 2012-10-21 10:51

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by Heavy Death »

Everything is now lethal and kills outright on impact or very close proximity in case of HE.
Fracsid
Posts: 115
Joined: 2006-12-12 00:35

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by Fracsid »

I asked this elsewhere, but perhaps you would know. Is it possible to make weapon damage a pseudorandom value from a range? The simplest example, a .30cal battle rifle dealing say 70-90 base (unarmored, 0 distance), but an intermediate caliber assault rifle dealing 60-80?
Heavy Death
Posts: 1303
Joined: 2012-10-21 10:51

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by Heavy Death »

Not that I know of. The distance dropoff kinda represents that, but its not what you ask for.

While we are on the topic, I have overlooked placed explosives, now C4s and such stuff will also kill in close proximity.
Deadmanfoot
Posts: 49
Joined: 2016-03-14 17:12

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by Deadmanfoot »

All bullets should be a 1 shot injure tbh, because it's realistic that way.
Heavy Death
Posts: 1303
Joined: 2012-10-21 10:51

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by Heavy Death »

But, they are. Unarmored torso shot will send you to black and white. Except pistols, they are 50% the damage so you need 2-3 shots, which you will anyway since you are CQB and the enemy has momentum. It would be really stupic if you could immediately stop him with 1 bullet.
mebel
Posts: 143
Joined: 2017-02-18 16:03

Re: Arnoldio's One-Life Infantry Weapons Damage Model

Post by mebel »

Awesome work. Works so well in onelife.
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