Dogfighting and flares

[Fuller]

I think there is sometimes a problem with the AA warning not going off in CAS choppers when a MANPAD is locking on to them. I recently had the problem with the Cobra on Murrah City when the rocket impacted the heli about 0.5 seconds after the AA warning sound went off.

[PBAsydney]

I think there is sometimes a problem with the AA warning not going off in CAS choppers when a MANPAD is locking on to them. I recently had the problem with the Cobra on Murrah City when the rocket impacted the heli about 0.5 seconds after the AA warning sound went off.

Pretty sure that's intentional since the launcher locking on via heat-signature is passive.

[chrisweb89]

95% sure you got a redirect and got fucked.

[Menuen]

95% sure you got a redirect and got fucked.

Nope you have 1 or 2 seconds after lock sound to do anything. There is no time to dodge or at least to turn. Only thing that can save you is speed, so if you pop flares and have speed to move away enough to take only damage.

[DogACTUAL]

FAKE NEWS.

I was already 95% percent sure that a manpads lock on before firing the missile would give you a warning tone, but i tested it again just because of your claim. A expected, you hear a warning tone after the manpads aquired a lock on before it even fires the missile. And for that matter, this is the case for every lock on AA in this game.

I don't know how these fake news starts spreading, a good tip, don't make any claims about stuff you assume must be true, only stuff you actually tested and verified.

The reason you assumed that was the case, was probably because every self respecting AA guy will fire the missile as soon as he aquires a lock, which effectively leads to a similar result as if your claim was true.

[Menuen]

FAKE NEWS.

I was already 95% percent sure that a manpads lock on before firing the missile would give you a warning tone, but i tested it again just because of your claim. A expected, you hear a warning tone after the manpads aquired a lock on before it even fires the missile. And for that matter, this is the case for every lock on AA in this game.

I don't know how these fake news starts spreading, a good tip, don't make any claims about stuff you assume must be true, only stuff you actually tested and verified.

The reason you assumed that was the case, was probably because every self respecting AA guy will fire the missile as soon as he aquires a lock, which effectively leads to a similar result as if your claim was true.

"pilot cant hear first locking sound from hand-held AA, you can only hear second one" The problem is he can shoot faster than you will drop your flares. He is more prepared, and you as a pilot have to fly straight, look for hats, AAs, Helis and also you need to talk with your gunner. He will almost everytime be faster than you.

[fecht_niko]

Is it possible that the stinger AA is much worse than all other AAs?
I tried it yesterday on Beirut 5 times. Locked on a transheli which didn't even flared but the rocket flew into the water not even close to the chopper.

[Jack_Howitzer]

This update was really a nail in the coffin for CAS & dogfighting. First the maneuverability of fixed-wing aircraft was wrecked, then ridiculous ground AA re-track ability, new (broken) flare system combined with increased bullet drop and reduced gun ammunition.

I have seen loads of nerfing and buffing in my PR years but this is one of those cases when some DEVs apparently had enough of CAS jets. This system reduces experienced pilot's chance of survival to that of a noob. Now it's just first see, first kill. Tactics play very little role, any maneuvers or moves play no role whatsoever. Who first gets a lock-on gets the kill. Kind of like aimbot for every pilot. ))))

[Danesh_italiano]

Dogfights are not fun any more. 90% the time i die by AA (first lock/first missile). The same to kill enemy jets, 90% the time i kill enemy jet with on the first lock/frist missile.

The problem is not the flare, is the AA. AA got buffered on 1.4...

1.3.9 AA + no missile spam + new flight models = the best

Edit: Pre-flaring doesn't work (at least for jets)... and pooping 60 flares is not enough for AA :/

[Brozef]

Want to make dog fights more fun? Easy as pie, instead of allowing lock on times to be fucking 1 second make it like 5-6 seconds before lock is good and reduce the size of the lock on radius. That will make them last longer and force pilots to use their guns more which is so much more fun to use.

[Jack_Howitzer]

Want to make dog fights more fun? Easy as pie, instead of allowing lock on times to be fucking 1 second make it like 5-6 seconds before lock is good and reduce the size of the lock on radius. That will make them last longer and force pilots to use their guns more which is so much more fun to use.

That would make dogfights require more skill, which is not really the trend we have seen in the PR development during last couple of years. The game is constantly being made more and more easy for newcomers to get decent success, and more changes being made to diminish any edge gained from skill and experience.

[DogACTUAL]

Do you even think before you post trash like that? A lock on duration of 5 seconds would make it impossible to engage helicopters with missiles. Jets also would be almost impossible to be engaged with missiles and in the rare case you would get a solid lock on, the engagement distance would be absurdly close.

Tbh i like the new air to air gameplay meta, it is quick and decisive, no room for errors. The only thing wrong right now is the overpowered ground AA, preflaring needs to be more effective.

[Brozef]

Yes I have thought it through, and the idea of a longer dog fight sounds great, and forcing the pilot to use guns more than missiles also sounds quite appealing

[DogACTUAL]

Play some war thunder if you want gunfights, modern jets use the gun against other jets only in rare cases.

[Menuen]

Tbh i like the new air to air gameplay meta, it is quick and decisive, no room for errors.

Yeah find enemy jet shoot 1 rocket or 2 and GG. Quick and decisive, no fun allowed. I dont remember when was the last time that someone writed on chat "good dogfight".

[Fuller]

@DogACTUAL

This is not true. The USAF had to retrofit their jets (F-4D) with guns because bvr fights didn't go so well due to the poor accuracy of their missiles.

If the situation has really changed today is highly doubtable with all the active and passive protection systems. An exception might be high tech planes vs. low tech planes similar to what we saw in syria with the old su-22 vs. super hornet.

[DogACTUAL]

All your historical anecdotes about vietnam and the Su-22 are already known to me.

Since there is no actual example of modern state of the art jets fighting against each other, one can only assume.
But missiles have come a long way since vietnam and with the AMRAAM and R-77 most experts agree that air to air gun engagements would be rare in modern air to air combat.

But yes, they would still happen like they do ingame too.
Claiming gun fights would take prevalence over missile use is just nuts though.

[Fuller]

The missile technology has come a long way no doubt about that...
Do you have any sources that support your arguments?

Evidence is obviously hard to find and in most cases classified but according to
this article http://www.ausairpower.net/SP/DT-AAM-Ev ... h-2009.pdf
"[...] The long term outlook is that the ‘Kill Probability=1’
AAM will remain an illusory goal,[...] ".

This article shows the performance of the AIM-9X missile vs. the mentioned SU-24 M4 (?) possibly with newer russian flare dispensers.
How did a 30 year-old Su-22 defeat a modern AIM-9X? | Combat Aircraft

[Danesh_italiano]

Yeah find enemy jet shoot 1 rocket or 2 and GG. Quick and decisive, no fun allowed. I dont remember when was the last time that someone writed on chat "good dogfight".

True!

#ReverseAATo1.3.9
#MakeAANonGreatAgain

and dog fights will be fun again...

[Hunter291]

danesh does all the time