DoD being used to control gameplay too much

[chrisweb89]

I'm away from playing pr and a main computer for now so I can't give any great specific examples or pictures other than the general outline of what i see as a problem, and a few specific examples. Overall i feel that DoDs have been continuously increasing in size and scope around mains, and therefor server admins have been using them as a crutch to support their rules. Yes pr developers and features don't change server rules, but they do affect them. This also became much more apparent to me after the recent patch of no building in DoD. I support that change completely, but on some maps the DoD is so large it keeps your team from building usefully fobs near your last flag other than 1 fob directly on it.

My most recent example being bijar canyons as mec at radio tower. The DoD cuts very close and all around the cap, this actually hurts both teams, and I'm general hurts gameplay and thinking outside the box other than head on attacks. The Mec team can't build multiple overlapping fobs covering the flag and approach, the idf team can't build flanking fobs and are forced into a narrow attacking corridor. Even with these massive DoDs on large 4km asset maps, it doesn't recent baserape. AA has such a long range and easy locking (not a negative) that unless you cut off most of the playable area of a 4km, you will always be able to baserapr if you really want. Even with ground vehicles you can do it a little bit. Overall the DoD while maybe discouraging the act doesn't make it impossible, and it's still done accidentally all the time, but it does cut down on the tactics and playable area of a map, and around flags.

I've also seen the opposite happen from DoD placement on marlin near the Mec main. The mountains west of the Mex main had a French hat kit waiting to ambush the tanks as they headed west and crossed the dam or went north on the main road (both engagement area that I would be fine with). The hat engaged a tank, made it burn but he repaired enough to stop the flames and attempt to rtb when black smoke. In the rush of things the hat didn't pay attention to the exact position of the tank as he saw him on the road running and fired directly into the Mec main as the tank ran at the reputation which was 50m away when it died but out of view distance to the hat. Here the DoD did nothing to protect the tank other than an artificial feel good. I'm not saying extend the DoD even further, intact the complete opposite.

DoD should only be there for close spawn/super vulnerable areas and have enough playable space between the main and first flag. They shouldnt attempt to cover every possible position that someone could baserape/basecap from, it's impossible and cuts too much play area out. That should be left to the admins who in early versions of PR managed their servers expectations of safely leaving/entering main.

Finally the shield that protects most carrier maps and some other air maps I believe should be added to all maps and it should be a 2 way shield. This would prevent more accidental AA redirects that still happen, simple stupid mistakes like the hat kit on marlin and other annoying problems like people shooting in or out.

[Outlawz7]

You've brought up an interesting point, I'm thinking.

I'm away from playing pr and a main computer for now so I can't give any great specific examples or pictures

Try this? PR Map Gallery

[chrisweb89]

Lol I know. Just on my phone living off data so don't want to constantly bring up large images.

[DogACTUAL]

I agree with everything chris said. I had a very similar opinion about this topic for quite some time, but he put it to words perfectly. Fun fact: I was the gunner of that specific tank on marlin (i am still sceptical about that HAT clanmate of yours though, i really think he had an idea of what he was doing and was just depserate to finish us off ;not mad though, had a great laugh).

[Jacksonez__]

DoDs have been continuously increasing in size

Yeah, I feel like DOD is taking 1/3 of area in some maps

[viirusiiseli]

Wouldn't need such big DODs if maps featured more than 1 or 2 good ways out of main

[VTRaptor]

Servers tend to have "no fighting over DOD" or "no shooting into and from DoD/main" rule, which is good in a way, but basically just breaks the gameplay, as we often see games soo unbalanced, that one team is pushed back to the main and forced to respect existence of some invisble line, that is not even marked on the map xD. IMO servers should allow players to attack main base of the loosing team, which lost all its flags. Qwai is perfect example - when CH has no flags, it's impossible to stop both sides from firing from and into the main base, these fortifications are not just for aesthetics - they can provide fun for team that just got steamrolled and vice versa. Right now it's all about waiting out the ticket bleed... <no fun allowed> it can also speed up map change, so admins can balance the teams up.

I agree with DoD being too large, but i think that servers can work with that, if they enforce certain rules.
comic sans best font lol

But what'ive said is a bit offtopic, hope you guys don't mind it.

[mectus11]

Don't think the DOD is too large, just because you had a bad experience with an abusive admin doesn't make it all bad.

You've got a map on Fools Road that is horrible for British when coming out of their main everytime, you could argue that the DOD on that map should be increased to cover the entire Island so they don't get camped from the only 2 ways they can leave from.

Militia aswell when they get outcapped, the brits start shooting at the militants leaving from their main and the DOD rule stops them depending on the server you're on.

The DOD also helps on Hades Peak so both teams can't easily look into each other's mains to kill the assets before they even get a fighting chance.

viirus brings up a point, you've got some maps that feature horrible ways to get out of main (Fools Road for example again)

Here the DoD did nothing to protect the tank other than an artificial feel good. I'm not saying extend the DoD even further, intact the complete opposite.

Should be the admin's responsability to enforce the rules.

DoD should only be there for close spawn/super vulnerable areas and have enough playable space between the main and first flag. They shouldnt attempt to cover every possible position that someone could baserape/basecap from, it's impossible and cuts too much play area out. That should be left to the admins who in early versions of PR managed their servers expectations of safely leaving/entering main.

The PR community is vastly different today to what it used to be, aswell as the game is quite different. You've got a lot of people who just play to grief nowadays and cause trouble just to troll. Sometimes you catch them too late and they ruin an entire round because people are just pricks and you can't predict their behaviour.

I agree that the DOD on some maps should be tweaked obviously for large maps but people will always find a way to exploit shit.

[CAS_ual_TY]

Im sure once all maps feature DODs which will make it impossible to baserape, the "no fighting in DOD rules" will be removed. But as long as there is a single map where you can easily look into the enemy main base, servers will keep that rule for sure. Fools being an example. And I am happy seeing DODs increased so that plain baserape is simply not possible anymore making admin work easier.

But the FOB-on-last-flag problem does exist, I agree with that.

[chrisweb89]

At mectus, where did I have a problem with an abusive admin?

Why limit a 500m-1000m radius around a main to prevent baserapr when you just have the shield that keeps everyone in the physical boundary of the main protected no matter what, and use the DoD as a deterrent to stay away, but not the end all be all magic solution.

As people have said players will always grief and find a way to exploit mainbases or baserape, so constabtly enlarging DoDs won't fix it until it becomes so absurdly large a 4 km map turns into a 1km. Preventing baserape/unavoidable basecamping is something that should be primarily left to server admins, and map designers. Look at black gold Russian main, basically impossible to baserape.

Also I think people have to be able to differentiate ambushing which is legit, and can be countered/stopped. And basecamping which is nearly unavoidable/unstoppable unless you pour a huge amount of resources back to your main as a team. My quick example would be good road. Ieds on the end of the bridge not ok, ieds at the Y in the village ok in my books

[Rabbit]

Yeah, I feel like DOD is taking 1/3 of area in some maps

Poor map design.

[viirusiiseli]

Good map design does make actual baserape and even the most harmful ways of camping mains impossible. After that all is fair game.

Maps like Kashan, Black Gold, Ia Drang, Assault on Grozny, Gaza IDF side, Sbeneh, Silent eagle have it quite well made.

Many maps suffer because the ways out of main are limited and in the case with multiple exits, most of them are inconveniently placed like Dovre, Gaza hamas side, Dragon Fly, Kozelsk, MEC side on Muttrah etc.

[mectus11]

Why limit a 500m-1000m radius around a main to prevent baserapr when you just have the shield that keeps everyone in the physical boundary of the main protected no matter what, and use the DoD as a deterrent to stay away, but not the end all be all magic solution.

Can be abused by CAS just flying back above their main when dog fighting, it will get abused no matter what.

Some maps aren't designed with this in mind, on some maps the base can look at the last flag and then you can abuse this shield by edging the DOD with AA or HAT so you can shoot but not get shot at and by edging the DOD you can claim that it was an accident ez.

[chrisweb89]

Make the shield so it goes both ways, prevents fire in and out. As for jets using it is an exploit As long as the dome stays low, and to a minimum it's going to be hard to exploit As a jet, and yes I fly.

[sweedensniiperr]

Some good points. But I can't really say that it is a problem majority of the time. But when it does it sure is annoying.

I would rather say it's not a problem of DoD but a mix of flags, DoD and map design.

[waldov]

I agree with most of the point's made in this thread in favor of a reduced DoD, Gaza I think is really good example of a bad DOD/layout design. I've played at-least two games where the Cache has spawned at the North eastern most end of the city literally 100-150 meters from the IDF DoD. Engagements into and out of the DoD are inevitable here, especially for the tank that can either shoot from the relative safety of the DoD or enter one of the tightest choke point's in the city and get ambushed. Also the Dod extending south into the open makes things awkward, with the city defenders looking perfectly at passing IDF units from the outskirts without being able to engage until they've passed some magic line and vice versa. Unfortunately theres plenty of other example that share similar flaws.

Making a secure entry into the combat zone should be a consideration for force's leaving the safety of there main base, not such a forced mechanic. Reducing the DoD would encourage teamwork, by putting a little more emphasis on safety in numbers and convoys/escorts while making lone wolves easier targets and removing the "gimmicky" way the DoD is often exploited such as armor fighting in a position where they just need to reverse a meter to be back in the immunity of the DoD etc. A win/win imo.

[assetruler69]

Poor map design.

This. But it works both ways. Big DoDs are bad and non-existing DoDs are bad too. Like Beirut Russian on-land vehicle spawn point at factory. Jabal. Khamisiyah's runways which aren't protected from AA camping.

If you don't have proper DoDs you, as an admin, would have to deal with enforcing artificial(i.e. non-gameplay) boundaries like "basecamping" and to deal with some troubles which will occur because of that. For example it's hard to determine what does "basecamping" exactly means and when it starts and ends.

Properly placed DoD and good map design makes it impossible for players to do any damage "basecamping" and thus there will be no butthurt, forum wars or drama.

[Dorian]

No Shooting in and out of DoD is horrbile sometimes. When Hamas pushes IDF back to their DoD on Gaza Ins, the IDF still has the option to leave by boat and the main is concealed by trees, small hills etc.. So why would you enforce that rule so hard like some admins do?

[Fuller]

Is it possible to put a "shield" around airfields similar to those protecting carriers? (e.g. saaremaa)

[Suchar]

Is it possible to put a "shield" around airfields similar to those protecting carriers? (e.g. saaremaa)

It already exist and it already is on every map in PR AFAIK.