[WIP] [Vehicle] Super Etendard

[Rhino]

Nice work but you need to work on where and how you're spending your tris a lot more.

First of all I would prefer if you could show your progress in pictures, makes giving feedback a lot easier. You can use programs like ShareX to make taking and uploading screenshots super easy with just the press of a button even. How I take my screens

Also BTW, if you press "o" while you have your perspective view active, you will toggle the "Expand Object Toggle" which will mean that when off, when you move your view you will see the full 3D objects and not just the bounding boxes of them. This tool is only really for making moving through really complex scenes much faster but no point using it unless you're really lagging.
Expand Object Toggle On (while moving): https://i.imgur.com/EmgnYWz.jpg
Expand Object Toggle Off (while moving): https://i.imgur.com/0gdbSsF.jpg

Moving on, firstly looking at my refs I think you have the base of the flight stick a little incorrect, where you have it mounted on a cylinder which then mounts to the big box to the floor, where from what I can tell, it mounts directly into that box:



As for the flight stick itself, your spending a lot more tris than you need and you could simplify its mesh a lot more. Also remember if you really want to give something a lot of detail, best to make a HP model of it and bake its normals to a low poly model

As for the Secondary Ejector Firing Handle (one just behind the stick, you have multiple ones encase the pilot can't get to one due to which way the G-Forces are pulling you), you haven't got the shape quite right (far wider in yours compared to the refs) and here you could actually spend a few more tris, with giving it more edges etc. I would also recommend making this with the line/spline tool if you haven't already, like I did with the Primary Handle above the seat as it gives you far more control
The base for the secondary firing handle could also be optimized a little removing those unnecessary edges/verts but other than that looks good.

The Throttle is about right although needs a little box under it connecting it to the panel and possibly could have its tris done a little better. Would also recommend making this with the line/spline tool too myself.

The seat, however, was better overall before you removed those edges which you should have really just made it rounder, not less so. Would revert back to the 3p seat and start again on that tbh.


Keep up the good work and remember the main thing is the instruments panel which still needs more 3D Buttons and Switches to bring it to life


PS. I'm almost done on fixing up all the moving parts now. Just gotta to the rear landing gear and then add a bit of extra detail before I plan to do the UV foundations for you

[Rhino]

Finished fixing up the model and did a little animation teaser video of all the moving parts
Super Etendard Flight Animation Teaser - Project Reality Forums

I had to redo quite a lot of the model, in the end, to get all the moving parts to work properly.
Had to modify the fuselage shape so the wheels could fit inside and to be in line with the real shape, which then also meant having to redo the air breaks again I had redone previously




I also totally remade the landing gears to be optimized and also be able to be fully moveable etc.

Also had to modify the flaps quite a bit, they where missing the big hydraulics bit under them and also made an internal flap bit to simulate the multiple moving parts in r/l, with just one moving part per flap



Made a new Exocet hardpoint:



And also made a new Drop Tank model as your one was too small and not very optimized etc:



Also made a new Magic Hardpoint:


And then added quite a bit of extra detail since had quite a few tris to spare after the optimizations and these can easily be cut down and removed in the LODs etc







Made a bunch of other changes along the way but think it's all good now and already started UVing it, but shouldn't take long to get that out the way then onto texturing and exporting!

BTW how are you coming along with the cockpit, made any progress?

[anantdeathhawk]

wow! looks good. I really craved for those details .I have exams! right now although i have worked a little bit on it.

[Rhino]

Cool and Cheers

Done the UVs and almost finished the packing, just not totally happy with the packing right now, quite a bit of empty space left over which is kinda hard to fill with all the odd shapes etc, going to try and use some more of it up tomoz.


Soon going to be ready for texturing, anyone up for it here by any chance?

[anantdeathhawk]

update:
Hello!

Screens:
You really don't want these details on the seat to be replaced?
What about the lower ejection cord base? (encircled)


Lower ejection cord.




Flight stick module.
Made the stick holder as a different object and cords as well.




Made a copy of the stick part to use as a HP model, can this be done?
Will reduce the tris on the original stick later.


Video:


Thanks!
I'll make the other changes and post tomorrow.

[Rhino]

Small update from me first

UVs and baking all done now and done a basic export of it and even got some of it coded up but code still needs a lot of work. Unforantly I had to sacrifice the Folding Wing Tips, Trim Flaps, Arrestor hook and the Air Brake Arms from being their own moving parts as it turns out that the limit for subparts is 25 (had 32 before) for BF2, at least if you try to load an object with more than 25 subparts in the editor, it refuses to load the object or crashes (depending on how you try to do it) and this will most likely apply to the main game engine too but not tried it yet. There may be other ways to hack in a few more moving parts as separate objects but might explore that later on.

You really don't want these details on the seat to be replaced?

Just not removed, if anything add to them but no point down rezing them from the 3p model even if they aren't going to be seen much.

What about the lower ejection cord base? (encircled)

That really just needs optimizing was I was saying. Has loads of unused edges/verts right now.

Lower ejection cord.

Flight stick module.
Made the stick holder as a different object and cords as well.

looks good although the wires under it should really be one object and probably should be fewer sides too since it is just wire at the end of the day. Use the Line tool and make sure you also do a non-normalised automatic UV for them too, will save you loads of time later

Made a copy of the stick part to use as a HP model, can this be done?
Will reduce the tris on the original stick later.

Yep, a good way of doing it

[anantdeathhawk]

Update:

Screens:
Instrumentation.








Throttle and enclosure.



Climb/dive indicator.



Video:


The jet looks great!

1.Is the instrumentation okay?; We are currrently at 11000 tris.
2.Do you want me to make Normals for the panel like floating dials?
3.You want me to remove those front curves on the seat right or its okay? (didn't understand what you were saying)

THANKS!

[Rhino]

Cool but your wasting so many tris on the switches etc, they can be done with very few tris, I would even call 30tris quite a lot for a small switch let alone 300? Your switches don't even look like quite the right shape to me either?
This switch that I've shown you before as an example, is only 18tris and is pretty much the same thing you want, with also the base done via normals (though a HP bake in this case but could even be done via hand painting it into the texture)





Your throttle could also have fewer sides to it, this isi something the player is not going to see and is quite far away from him even if he does look down. Also doesn't really look right to me, mainly the mounting bit for it being really big compared to its ref? Also, we are not able to make it, or the stick move btw, since we are already on the limit of moving parts with the jet and as such, can't have them moving too.

1. 11k tris is really over the top tbh and that's before we put the 3p elements in the player can see out the window. Save tris on the small things that don't need them and that will free up a lot, which you can then spend on the bigger things right in front of the player that are going to silhouette.
2. I don't know what you mean by panels and floating dials?
3. for the chair just do this, with a curve at the front etc, dunno why you've done that double dent bit, isn't in any of the refs?: https://i.imgur.com/UjZGkg3.jpg
Actually, for the chair itself, I would recommend you stick 100% to the 3rd person chair (other than possibly the headrest which you will see if you look far back), other than possibly smoothing it out a little (can do that later if need be) so that way, it can use the 3rd person textures for it and will save you a lot of UV space that way for your 1p textures.

Key thing to remember that the most important part of the cockpit is what is ahead of the player's face. Next important is the parts the player will see when looking around and outside when using the POV, views. What is down, inside the cockpit, outside of the players forward, side and rear views, is really not important as the player will never be looking there and in many of the jets, they have nothing down under the players FOV because it wasn't needed (note, all vBF2 jets and this is not how we recommend doing it)





I agree this is extreme since this totally limits the player from looking down at all (and other things) but it is a good example for my point, that things below the player's main frontal view, or other side/rear views, really isn't that important. If the dials worked then sure they would be as there would be a need to look at them but otherwise, they are for a large part, just a waste of tris and texture space so do not spend loads of tris and UV space on these things that the player will hardly ever see and spend them on the bits they will, on smoothing up the dashboard walls etc.

[anantdeathhawk]

Update:
Reduced the tris to 3.5K

Screens:




Don't mind the mismatch in size the cockpit had to be scaled down a bit to fit inside the cockpit of the 3P model you gave me.



They are only a few of these.








Ref for double curve on the seat:

It's in the collection of pictures you gave me(updated version)


Video:


Thanks!

[Rhino]

Nice work, getting there

Firstly, looking at the refs, there is no wall around the top right part of the cockpit:



Instead, only this shade is fitted around the radar screen. Dunno if it is worth doing this shade but it might be worth giving it a pop and seeing if you can make it look decent. If not, can just go with the unshaded radar screen but ye, forget the wall around it (even if the 3p cockpit has a wall, they do not need to match 100% btw).


I would make the corner here smoother thou, as you can see in the ref above it is quite a smooth corner and worth spending some extra tris there since this will silhouette and is right in front of the player


I'm also confused as to why the inside of your artificial horizon, gets fewer sides, then more sides as it gets towards the middle? Should just have fewer sides the more it gets towards the middle like so:


The switch is better but I would make the end have only 4 sides, and providing you do a HP bake for its normals then the rest is good, if not, I would do one chamfer around the top edge but HP normals will be best
For the pointy nob, it needs a few more sides for the main part and a central vert at the top, also no need for that dividing edge on the base, especially if you do a HP bake but even without it, no need.


hehe you've gone down the other extreme with the throttle now, it having only 6 sides (from about 64?) is far too few hehe. I would say give it around 16 sides

And ye, for the seat, just use the 3rd person cockpit seat so it can use the 3rd person UVs/Textures for it as the player will never look down that far for it and putting it on the 1p textures is just a waste. Will send you over the latest files and refs in a bit btw over PMs so you can get the latest 3p files but for the 1p cockpit, only the seat and things outside the cockpit that you can see from within the cockpit should be used from the 3p model, everything right in front of the player should be new and on the 1p textures

[Rhino]

Right small update. I wasn't at all happy with my last UV pack after we began to texture it and on top of spotting a few overlapping/mirror errors (ie, mirrored text where I forgot I couldn't overlap as we needed to put text there on opposite sides), as well spotting a few parts that could be mirrored and overall save a bunch of space, and that some of the logos etc where pretty low detail I decided to repack the UVs again from scratch and redo a few UVs.


Old UVs: https://i.imgur.com/SS4zDvK.jpg

Got a much better pack second time around and with a lot more detail from before too
(note the size of the grid, finer grid is better)
Old Checker: https://i.imgur.com/dwzuFcY.jpg
New Checker: https://i.imgur.com/SQMr0Py.jpg



Also redid the wheels and it's UVs a little to work better with the baking



So ye if anyone wants to give texturing this a shot let me know as we are all pretty busy right now so would be good if someone from the community could step up to do this

[anantdeathhawk]

update:
screws, AH and knobs are optimised as you said, radar screen cover made, canopy part made.The seat is ready to be welded.I aslo did a detail on the flight stick for the HP.
front facing parts like compass and watch also done.Will remove the shade around the radar screen later.

Screens:


















Thanks!

[Rhino]

Nice work. Can you get a screen from the actual pilot's head location so I can see how everything looks from there so far since that is the most important thing for any 1p model, is where it is being seen from.

Your new canopy arch isn't quite right when comparing it with the refs and also, there is a lot more detail you could add to it. This is one area you can spend a lot more tris and go a little wild tbh with also covering it in bolts and having lots of smooth edges etc.


I would also start off by making the basic curve shape with a spline. Right now your curves aren't very good and your wasting tris all over the place. Really quick spline I made as an example:



Here's that spline if it helps, once you've done tweaking it's basic shape, just convert it to editable poly then you can make all the other details from there
http://files.realitymod.com/temp/Super_ ... Spline.max

Also has the camera from the around the pilots 1p perspective in that scene with a 91.309 deg FOV which is the same default FOV as BF2/PR (3DsMax's default FOV is 45 degs).


Also, does your Radar Shade have any inside faces? Looking closely it looks it doesn't right now and I think it will need them. Remember to turn backface cull on to see meshes the same as they will be seen ingame.

Keep up the good work!


In other news, I've taken on the texturing of this jet myself it seems hehe. Was just fixing up the AO, then colours, then a few details ready for someone else to texture it but one thing lead to another and with no one else available to do it I thought I might as well just do the textures myself. Working on all the panelling work right now, although thanks to PS's recovery backing up mixed with a BSOD at the same time, did just lose 2 days of detailing work which is rather pissing off, but could have been worse if I hadn't done any backups hehe. Not going to show the textures in 3D for now since want to save that until its done but what I've done so far https://i.imgur.com/CYGh9fu.jpg

[anantdeathhawk]

Update:



Are these nuts good?

Thanks!

[Rhino]

Ye, although the 6 sided nut, shouldn't be smoothed (unless you plan on controlling its smoothing through a HP normal bake) and also, no point welding the thread to the nut, your not saving any real amount of UV space or preventing any zfighting and just a waste of tris so best to just have the nut have its top fully capped and the thread sitting on the top.

Also I would recommend you distribute your nuts along a path like this, BUT best to do their base UVs first (can pack them later, just UV the first one now), before you distribute them, so then you don't need to UV each one individually later and also if you choose to have them all share the same UVs (which is most likely for all/most of them, other than ones that need to be in shadow or w/e) then you don't need to manually stack their UVs later too and you just unstack the UVs of any you want unique for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y8gEkisJQw

EDIT: might not be in Max9, but can use this script to do the same thing in Max9: http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scrip ... line-align

or this one: http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/array-3d

[anantdeathhawk]

update:




Sorry for the small images, internet is slow where i am right now.
Are these nuts good now?
fixed the smoothing and UVWed.
and made a test align with 45 nuts as i counted 44 on the cockpit reference picture.
If you are happy with the UVs, i'll go ahead with the alignment and placement on the cockpit, but what will i do with the spline as they are attached to the spline and the spline's visible, perhaps i'll reduuce opacity of the spline! ??:

Thanks!

[Rhino]

You don't want to pack the UV, and especially not on its own sheet, and you shouldn't overlap the nut base and thread top like that either. You just want a basic UV of everything the same proportions and pack it later into the main 1p texture sheet, once you get to the UV packing stage. The only reason to UV it now is to save time instead of UVing each one individually later.

Placement looks fine from that pic but can't tell fully since it isn't up close and against the canopy either.

[anantdeathhawk]

Update:

Screens:

Made a new canopy and a high poly version. The high poly version has some minor smoothness problem,where the arc ends and bars extend to the sides.



Added details to compass(redone) and watch.



Added inner lining to the radar cover.



Reduced around 350~400 tris on flight stick





Camer view and placement.




Thanks!

[Rhino]

Nice work. Glad your going with a HP for the canopy but can't see how it looks in edged frame. You want to show HP models in smooth view (ie, no edges, or at most, isolated edges) so people can see actually how its smoothing looks as that is the most important thing of a HP model. Also looks like your LP model has the control edges for the HP on it? LP model should be optimized, with removing unnecessary control edges.

Looking at the pic, the bit the nuts are on should be wider. Right now the nuts hardly fit on. I'm also not sure if you've got them correct either since, while it is pretty hard to tell from the ref, they don't have that thread sticking out you've made and not really sure they are traditional nuts like you have made. Do you have any better refs of them that I don't have?

Next, the Arch should really continue all the way around and should merge into the side wall, not clip inside of it. Only clips inside of the outside area at the back and only very slightly, so I wouldn't even model that, just make it one bit. Also for more detail, it would be good to make the canopy wall explosive packs and wiring that blow the glass before ejection, but worry about that after you've got the canopy done
Also, you shouldn't be making just the back part that opens, but all of the canopy arch as one object since there is no need for it to open and also totally merge in the struts into it and generally weld it into the rest of the 1p cockpit.





For the Camera, did you merge/use the camera I sent you with the Arch? Doesn't look to be in the same position or have the same settings, and seems to be a target camera rather than a free camera I made? Also really want a high rez pic with both edges and non-edged views so we can see how it really looks.

As for the compass and clock, think you have them far too forward right now. From the refs I'm looking at, they look to be positioned behind the main arch, just off the struts. Alos would get their position and the mountings correctly before working to much on their details but looking good so far.

Anyways keep it up

[anantdeathhawk]

Update:

Hello!

1.Redid the arch (modified) with the HP version.
2.New bolts and washer(UVed and aligned to spline).
3.In the making Det. charges along the canopy glass with its cord.
4.rear view mirror.

Will weld everthing when all is done.

Screens:










Do i need to weld these to the cockpit frame and with eachother.











How to give you a picture that is at a higher rez than these?

No i didn't merge and infact didn't know you sent me the camera already setup, i tried to download the arch you made a few days later you posted and by that time the link had expired.So, i setup the camera by myself and that was the result, if you could send me the setup camera again, that would be great!

Thanks!