TOW damage to front armor

[Fastjack]

implement a laserwarning system

Sounds nice but you can bypass that by firing above your target and circle the missile into it in the last second. So i did it in vanilla.

Ok, atleast you get 1 second before you die a warning sound and the knowledge from where it came from but it would only safe you from unexperienced TOW gunners and not against the guy's who know their job.

[LimitJK]

its not supposed to safe you from tows, but from tanks.

still a valid point though.

[DogACTUAL]

This is a game that relies on heavily on logic. Having TOWs and GLATGMs perform vastly different is not very logical.

What is so bad about tanks being rewarded for aiming at the right spots on the frontal armour?

[Frontliner]

It's trash, plain and simple. The malfunctions that would occur IRL from firing onto such weakspots are either impossible to emulate and/or wouldn't damage the tank's firing mechanism at all. You'd do "no" damage and the tank crew can still fire at you. So it's best to not even try and instead focus on making the combat fair and balanced, and more about how you employ your tank to win against your opponent by making sure you have your armour pointed towards incoming threats at all times.

I don't know when you joined the game, but let me tell you that imo pre 1.3 tank behaviour(which featured weakspots) was pure cancer. It's the same reason why the Merkava post 1.3 was so annoying to play in, because it didn't matter if you had your front portion turned towards the enemy, people would still aim for the weakly armoured spots visible behind the turret and oneshot you every single time. I'm glad this disconnect between "doing the right thing" yet "still gets oneshot" was addressed by making the frontal portion strongly armoured entirely. We don't need to experiment with this garbage reasoning anymore and be glad that we don't.

[Jack_Howitzer]

I'd like to see stationary TOWs buffed so they can kill a tank from side or rear hit, and damage it rather seriously from frontal armor hit, but not immobilize it. IRL most TOWs wouldn't always penetrate most tanks from turret front hit, but would pretty much always from front hull hit. TOWs should be real danger to tanks, unlike now. After all, TOW is an emplacement requiring planning and building so it should have decent effect. Right now biggest danger for tanks (in urban and forest environments) is HAT/LAT guys lonewolfing and hitting tanks in the rear. And at the same time, TOW is mostly used anti-infantry as it sucks against heavy armor. I thought PR was about emphasizing coordination and teamwork to destroy enemy assets, not lonewolf tactics?

[schakal811]

Another problem is the fire delay, I know removing it completely is out of question due to realism, but reducing the delay would buff the TOW in certain situations.

I completely agree with Jack_howitzer.

[viirusiiseli]

TOWs are indeed underpowered ATM, damage model is mostly fine I think. Maybe needed to increase the frontal damage by 5-10% but that's about it. The other issues with TOWs are at fault more, in my opinion.

I think the fire delay from stationary TOWs should be removed entirely due to gameplay balancing reasons. Reality doesn't matter in that case. The delay doesn't fit well with the gameplay aspect.

I play assets and enjoy doing well in them but enough is enough, right now you can rush any TOW position with the knowledge that you can kill him before he kills you. If you don't already kill him before the missile is in the air, you can still do it when it is, and the TOW will spiral out of control. Especially the MILAN, as the missile has piss poor speed after the recent ish nerf.

Yeah it'd be nice to adapt that part of realism in the game but it completely doesn't work due to PR gameplay being vastly different than RL combat.

I would also reduce the spin on the TOWs. This way static TOW gunners would have a better chance at aiming for the rear/top of the tank instead of having to only aim for the hit. Currently if you attempt to aim at a certain part of the tank the probability to miss gets much higher due to the large diameter of the spin.

Those two changes are the only ones in my opinion that would make assets fear TOWs a bit more and also make it balanced.

Making TOWs 1HK from the front or just adding some damage is not really the solution for balanced gameplay, but that's probably what'll happen.

[chrisweb89]

Removing the launch delay could be a good idea to bring the balance back to normal, or atleast make ATGMs good aganst apcs again.

[fecht_niko]

I totally agree with Jack and virus on any point.

If INF whores & asset whores agree on the same thing than DEVs should really make that change!

[DogACTUAL]

Maybe keep a very short fire delay (like 0.5 seconds). Makes TOWs feel more 'real' and prevents misfires while still being just as effective against pushing tanks.

[viirusiiseli]

prevents misfires

[InfantryGamer42]

Maybe keep a very short fire delay (like 0.5 seconds). Makes TOWs feel more 'real' and prevents misfires while still being just as effective against pushing tanks.

No fire delay. Its really not needed.

[LimitJK]

Removing the launch delay could be a good idea to bring the balance back to normal, or atleast make ATGMs good aganst apcs again.

APC vs ATGM balance isnt even an issue, it is already normal. would only shift the balance against apcs. maybe shorten the delay slightly if many see an issue there, but dont remove it.

... while still being just as effective against pushing tanks.

your logic is flawed. removing the delay doesnt change anything about ATGM vs TANK balance, as it is a damage output/effect problem. this issue still needs to be adressed. pushing tow heads on would be still as effective as before due to no damage output.

I'd like to see stationary TOWs buffed so they can kill a tank from side or rear hit, and damage it rather seriously from frontal armor hit, but not immobilize it. IRL most TOWs wouldn't always penetrate most tanks from turret front hit, but would pretty much always from front hull hit. TOWs should be real danger to tanks, unlike now.

on point.
DEVs please consider making a front hull and front turret material as suggested.

[viirusiiseli]

APC vs ATGM balance isnt even an issue, it is already normal. would only shift the balance against apcs. maybe shorten the delay slightly if many see an issue there, but dont remove it.

your logic is flawed. removing the delay doesnt change anything about ATGM vs TANK balance, as it is a damage output/effect problem. this issue still needs to be adressed. pushing tow heads on would be still as effective as before due to no damage output.

on point.
DEVs please consider making a front hull and front turret material as suggested.

Side hits already kill tank. Removing firedelay makes using TOW against tank easier. Making spiral of TOW smaller makes it more accurate, making it easier to hit required parts of the tank.

Buffing damage addresses wrong parts of this problem. Tank vs TOW balance can be achieved with current damage, but other aspects of TOWs need buffs.

Simply increasing damage to front armor is not really a great solution, we already had TOW 1HK tank front armor before, it wasn't good.

[Murphy]

The delay is a joke, short of surprising an idiot enemy asset you're toast. It's way to easy for Armour to accidentally spill into a TOWs LOS and still get the first shot off, and I personally find TOWs have become borderline useless. The days of 8x magnification (could've been even more tbh) are well behind us, and the TOW emplacements have caught the nerfbat to the face a few too many times. It could surely use some love, and I agree that the delay is the biggest culprit here. The damage model might not sit well with everyone but for Tank vs Tank and APC/IFV vs APC/IFV I feel it is balanced quite nicely.

[Fastjack]

Making spiral of TOW smaller makes it more accurate, making it easier to hit required parts of tank.

My heart starts bleeding .... but he is right.

I dont know if the spirals of all TOW weaponsystem are different but it looks really unrealistic. Also the speed of the missiles.

The TOW is a powerfull asset but i dont agree with the oneshot kill in a MBT side armor.
Immobilized and disabled turret that's ok but the crew should be able to dismount the doomed tank.
One Hit on frontarmor should disable the turretweapons but not immobilze it.
Rear Hit - Game Over.

Refractor engine cannot simulate TOW missile damage on vehicles attacked from different angles like their reallife equivalent would do on a real MBT.

[Acecombatzer0]

Viirus you're nothing but an undisciplined cowboy

Let me tell you something Viirus, when you're playing CAS on Muttrah City, you're gonna need my INF. So you better learn to be a team player. We're done here.

Also a stupid gameplay suggestion, please don't implement this, but you can add a slight delay in a tank fire because it is technically a command from the tank commander, not a decision made by the gunner himself.

[Allahu Akbar]

Side hits already kill tank.

No, it fails all the time (at least against Abrams) depending on whether tank has been pre-damaged and actual damage value of ATGM.

Side shots should be more lethal to tanks than rear shots because rear shots usually hits engine and/or fueltank(not something that would blow up a tank immediately) while a side shot could easily hit ammo.

[AlonTavor]

I got one hit by a tow in a full hp Abrams yesterday..... (And on my screen I already rotated the front towards it. Fucking prediction with high ping.)

[viirusiiseli]

No, it fails all the time (at least against Abrams) depending on whether tank has been pre-damaged and actual damage value of ATGM.

Side shots should be more lethal to tanks than rear shots because rear shots usually hits engine and/or fueltank(not something that would blow up a tank immediately) while a side shot could easily hit ammo.

Frontal side is still frontal armour. Side armour shots with ATGMs should make tanks burn.