HAT being snatched at beginning of round.

[Murphy]

Possibly deal with that by having a HAT pick-up kit at main in the case of those 4km maps that would ideally have 2 HAT kits.

I think having a delay on an INF tool is a bad move. It's like your saying your finger hurts so we cut the whole hand off. The solution is a bit in the extreme, and the impact might be larger than we can surmise in a thread as opposed to seeing the results in-game.

[Avenged_Fate]

Also...to give inf squads and APC hat squads a chance to forget about the hat and focus on getting flags...then those who really need a hat kit, go to a nearby crate and attack their armored foe.

I don't know, man. I feel as if the HAT is really a "once-chance" shot. Yeah, you can resupply, but if you miss, the chances you get to hit your target again are pretty scarce.

I'd propose to have the HAT kit only functional for INF/Mortar squads. Tanks, APC's, CAS, they have their own assets to play with. You miss your AP shot? Tough shit.

they often end up very far away from squads getting lit up by armour

Exactly. THIS! They usually end up fighting their own pointless wars far away from everyone else, leaving INF squads vulnerable.

Armor squads, especially APC's are meant to support infantry. Give them the HAT, you use your cool nifty projectiles and coax.

[Aleon]

"Some guys get asset X, can't use it properly, and the whole team suffers." You could make the same argument about tanks or CAS. This thread is about a people problem, not a game balance one. HAT is currently an unclaimable, yet useful asset that people want. If you want to see this changed, convince servers to make rules regarding the HAT.


(And as for buffing the HAT/adding more doesn't work like you think it does. The problem with HATs and TOWs is that they are effective against everything. By making them more prevalent in game you are indirectly nerfing literally everything else. If you have a problem with the stuff that can only be killed by HATs, change that specific stuff not the HAT; otherwise you'll likely end up with a mess.)

[Mouthpiece]

snip

This.

Doesn't matter that armor got buffed and guided missles nerfed- in the right hands (especially the guided ones) HAT/TOW can impact the game a bit too much.

[Avenged_Fate]

"Some guys get asset X, can't use it properly, and the whole team suffers." You could make the same argument about tanks or CAS.

You're right, and I will make the same argument. I'm not sure if you're replying to me, but I'll take the cue. I've seen CAS, Tanks, APC and even Trans squads wielding the HAT kit, inside of an almost free kit squad that's scattered around the map.

This thread is about a people problem, not a game balance one.

It is a balance problem when the only HAT kit is out and about doing f**k-all, not helping out when infantry squads are almost being overrun.

[PatrickLA_CA]

It is a balance problem when the only HAT kit is out and about doing f**k-all, not helping out when infantry squads are almost being overrun.

And how would you balance it? The only way to balance it while not nerfing the shit out of every asset is with a server rule that can dictate which squads can use it, but even then, how are you going to decide which squad needs it? IMO there's nothing wrong with the asset squads using the kit in the first 20 minutes of the game to keep enemy vehicles from taking up good positions.

[Avenged_Fate]

And how would you balance it? The only way to balance it while not nerfing the shit out of every asset is with a server rule that can dictate which squads can use it.

Precisely. I know this seems very "authoritarian", but the way I see it (and it's just my personal view on the subject), it's the only way to make sure the HAT kit doesn't go wander off while other squads might need it.

how are you going to decide which squad needs it?

I've said it in a less recent post, allow the HAT kit to be only used by INF/Mortar squads to defend their positions against enemy armor.

Trans and CAS don't need the HAT, they'll be busy flying (except for the spotter in CAS), APC's most of the time have enough firepower to go against other APC's, and Tanks (specially The T-72, Abrams, Challenger) sure as hell have enough firepower to go against each other and against APC's.

But this is just my opinion.

[Bastiannn]

.

You seem to have a milsimish point of view on Project Reality and seem not to have the right idea about how public games actually go down.
Also you seem to ignore the idea of TOWs that have been brought up since the very first posts in this thread.

[Murphy]

I've said it in a less recent post, allow the HAT kit to be only used by INF/Mortar squads to defend their positions against enemy armor.

So what if Mortars and that INF Squad Leader decided to take the kit to a part of the map that the APC/Tanks never go to? You haven't solved your issue at all, you're just trying to play the game for someone else. Players are hardcoded, certain people will always rush to get the HAT at the round start and then go on to be useless. There is no ruleset, nerf/buff, gameplay adjustment that will change the mentality of a selfish person.

[Avenged_Fate]

You seem to have a milsimish point of view on Project Reality and seem not to have the right idea about how public games actually go down.

"you have a different point of view therefore are uninformed in the topic at hand"
Lel, what kind of argument is that?
Of course I have a different point of view, and it's exactly because of my own experience of being raped by enemy armor while the only HAT in the team is screwing around on the other side of the map that I have this opinion.

You seem to have a milsimish point of view on Project Reality

Yeah, sorry, dude, I guess we're playing Project of Duty, then.

[Avenged_Fate]

So what if Mortars and that INF Squad Leader decided to take the kit to a part of the map that the APC/Tanks never go to? You haven't solved your issue at all, you're just trying to play the game for someone else. Players are hardcoded, certain people will always rush to get the HAT at the round start and then go on to be useless. There is no ruleset, nerf/buff, gameplay adjustment that will change the mentality of a selfish person.

You got a point there, and I'd scratch the mortar squad off of my "list".
In my opinion, the Admins would have to enforce who is using the HAT and where it is, but that would be a server decision.

[PatrickLA_CA]

It's been said before, the HAT is not a defense weapon, it is an ambush and offensive weapon. If you need to defend a position, build a TOW.

[Psyko]

It's been said before, the HAT is not a defense weapon, it is an ambush and offensive weapon. If you need to defend a position, build a TOW.

If it's an "I want" versus a "you want" argument...

...I want it to be a defense flag and assault flag weapon.

Ambush is fine, but where is the ambush, and who is most qualified to ambush, the noobs that don't have responsibility, or the guys who have enough responsibility to take responsibility and accept the risk of getting beat up on flags?

If the argument is "well...if you decide to defend/offend a flag as inf, then you should have a TOW emplacement."
Well, that's not how it works out though, TOW emplacements are not very effective due to typically poor logistics. a mobile HAT in support of infantry against any kind of Armour to the benefit of the team is more responsible. At least if an inf squad was watching everyone's backs at the flag, then the free weapons/whore squads could go about their business marking targets for the core team.


Don't you think that whoever rushes the logistic crates at the beginning of round is too chaotic?

[Psyko]

to clarify...a tow is mostly used against infantry and not against armor...
fobs (which facilitate TOW) are frowned upon placed on flag cap radius-es.

HAT are unexpected in flag cap radius-es. That's what would make them more useful.

but having them being "rush-able" at round beginning, negates this advantage for inf squads.
At least when once an inf squad could deploy and capture a flag, THEN request a crate tehy have the option of a HAT ONCE THE HAT IS DELAYED. RATHER than the hat being irresponsible being snatched by an uncontrollable squad.

as a mostly inf squad member, our only defense is LAT. and LAT is useful to a point, but not reliable as its a tertiary prioritized weapon due to it's poor deploy-ability, and operator's in-access to range and range Intel. The LAT doesn't even get binoculars to use MRAP distance measurement.

AT LEAST make it so the HAT can be instantly returned to the weapon pool once somebody drops it. that way one squad can spend a moment requesting the hat from another squad, and if the choose to drop it, then the hat can be reloaded and used, and maybe even given back to the previous squad.

[Aleon]

Guys, again, replace "HAT kit" with "CAS helo" or with "tank" in this thread, and re-read the given suggestions. (Put in more of them? Make them return to the pool? Make them delayed?) Can you imagine making these kind of arguments for any other asset in the game? Because I really can't. Tanks not used properly? Add more of them! Yeeeah that'll solve it. Or make the tanks delayed.

These are not solution to the problem of "incompetent people grabbing assets and then wasting them". We already have a solution for this and it's called asset claiming. You are arguing about what the solution is to not having an asset rule.

Make HAT claimable by "AT infantry" or whatever squad you deem viable.
(This also has the healthy side effect of including the kit in the rules as an asset. From there on it's easy for an admin to reason when someone is going full retard with it.)

[agus92]

-snip-

Make HAT claimable by "AT infantry" or whatever squad you deem viable. /thread
(This also has the healthy side effect of including the kit in the rules as an asset. From there on it's easy for an admin to reason when someone is going full retard with it.)

There's only 9 squad slots available, 3 don't fill cause they're assets, 1 is mortars and at least one INF is a retarded free kit squad. With 4 squads remaining to receive most of the team, there's no room for more specialised, almost empty, squads.

Delaying the HAT is the right call, at least until half the tanks timer. Aprox 10 minutes gives plenty of time to position for ambushes, and denies the retarded HAT rushers at the beginning. Want a HAT? Request a crate. That way at least you ensure that HAT's end up on coordinated squads.

[PatrickLA_CA]

There's only 9 squad slots available, 3 don't fill cause they're assets, 1 is mortars and at least one INF is a retarded free kit squad. With 4 squads remaining to receive most of the team, there's no room for more specialised, almost empty, squads.

Delaying the HAT is the right call, at least until half the tanks timer. Aprox 10 minutes gives plenty of time to position for ambushes, and denies the retarded HAT rushers at the beginning. Want a HAT? Request a crate. That way at least you ensure that HAT's end up on coordinated squads.

Unfortunately, that's not how it will work out. Nothing will change, except now those who intended to get the HAT at the beginning will also have a logi with them for the sole purpose of requesting a HAT kit after X minutes. Like Aleon said, this is not a problem that can be fixed by changing game mechanics.

[Aleon]

...

No one said it has to be a specialized squad. It can be just one of the INF squads that is playing regularly anyway.

Delaying the kit won't solve anything. People who want the HAT will still have to fight over it once it is available. What you are saying is the equivalent of suggesting that delaying heavy assets solves the problem of people fighting over them. It obviously does not. Asset claiming does. Delayed assets just make people AFK while they wait for the spawn.

What you are suggesting is also unusable on maps where heavy assets spawn straight away. And these are the maps where having a competent HAT is the most important. What kind of assets would you categorize as "worth HAT-ing" anyway? Do IFV-s count? Or is it just tanks? What about maps without tanks? Even just figuring out when to make the HAT available would be a nightmare, as it depends on the map, the assets, the layout, etc.

Additionally, as far as I'm aware we are lacking server code for changing kit limits based on round timer, so we'd need someone to implement this as well. Making the HAT kit claimable could be introduced to any server literally today, without a single line of code.

Edit: Ah ninja'd

[Psyko]

Guys, again, replace "HAT kit" with "CAS helo" or with "tank" in this thread, and re-read the given suggestions. (Put in more of them? Make them return to the pool? Make them delayed?) Can you imagine making these kind of arguments for any other asset in the game? Because I really can't. Tanks not used properly? Add more of them! Yeeeah that'll solve it. Or make the tanks delayed.

These are not solution to the problem of "incompetent people grabbing assets and then wasting them". We already have a solution for this and it's called asset claiming. You are arguing about what the solution is to not having an asset rule.

Make HAT claimable by "AT infantry" or whatever squad you deem viable. /thread
(This also has the healthy side effect of including the kit in the rules as an asset. From there on it's easy for an admin to reason when someone is going full retard with it.)

uuughhh!!! i hate when people say /thread

like they are an authority on the matter

SHUT UP ALEON

[Aleon]

Well, I know you read the post at least. Classic Psyko