Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op

[ComradeHX]

Here I tested, without compensating for recoil in any way, UBGL AK-74M vs. modified(600rpm -> 900rpm) rifleman-ALT AK-74M on Hades Peak INF locally.

As anyone can clearly tell, the recoil is significantly lower overall with 900rpm and it does not shift to left/right significantly(although still noticeable) either.



Here I tested, without compensating for recoil, IDF's UBGL M4 vs. modified(900rpm -> 600rpm) rifleman-ALT M4 on Bijar Canyon ALT locally.

M4(and from experience, every other BluFor rifle, 600 or 900rpm) does not suffer nearly as much from problem of animation.
600 or 900rpm, it goes mostly straight up. But obviously 600rpm version had more recoil, as it went higher than 900rpm version after firing.



Problem gets worse on semi-auto, where animation will play out fully.

IIRC, AK-74M has lower recoil(vertical and horizontal) "stat" than M4.

Two things needed to be fixed:

1. fix AK-74M animation(make it shift camera top-right if at all).

2. fix length of animation(so a high rate of fire does not make recoil nearly-nonexistent) for other weapons or increase their recoil to match.

[Strategos]

These are pretty impressive demonstrations. Thanks for doing the field work and recording the videos. Hope this gets fixed.

[TristanYockell]

Thanks for posting. I knew something was wonky, when fighting blufor now their firearms feel like lasers.

They out perform in most ways and even when firing on them first you often lose simply due to accuracy and shot follow up times.

[DavviZ]

Great demonstration!
I fully agree with the changes you suggest. For too long high RPM rifles have dominated and the one that sprays the fastest win.

Especially the ak-74 variants have been broken for a while now.

[tankninja1]

The M4 should recoil like an undeployed m249 be much more realistic and balanced.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f255-infantry/135522-raging-g36-nerf-request.html

Blufor guns are fine. You keep insisting that there is a "recoil animation bug" but it is more likely user end. Because the ak74 is lower ROF you have a little time to make small adjustments between shots, whether these are conscious movements or not, something you can't do with the m4s. Further the high ROF of BLufor guns is cancelled by the fact that they burn through ammo stupidly fast.

http://imgur.com/a/G8m6P

Overall Ak74 recoil effects horizontal spread more, M4 effects vertical spread more.

[ComradeHX]

The M4 should recoil like an undeployed m249 be much more realistic and balanced.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f255-infantry/135522-raging-g36-nerf-request.html

Blufor guns are fine. You keep insisting that there is a "recoil animation bug" but it is more likely user end. Because the ak74 is lower ROF you have a little time to make small adjustments between shots, whether these are conscious movements or not, something you can't do with the m4s. Further the high ROF of BLufor guns is cancelled by the fact that they burn through ammo stupidly fast.

M4/Ak74 recoil @ 20m - Album on Imgur

Overall Ak74 recoil effects horizontal spread more, M4 effects vertical spread more.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f255-i ... est-3.html

When full-auto AR-15 has similar recoil to M249(undeployed), it would be balanced and realistic.

Only "user end" problem is not being able to predict whether the gun will swing wildly to left or right...oh wait that's NOT a user problem...
AK-74 needs you to "subconsciously" compensate for horizontal recoil(which is next to impossible).
M4 just needs you to pull down a little.
And if happened to be using Tavor, you don't have to pull down much at all.

The fact is that there are two problems:
1. AK-74 recoil animation is fucked; it's causing AK-74 to unrealisticly sway left/right when firing.
2. length of recoil animation(on all guns) have been cut short by the next round fired, which means fullauto == lower recoil and faster ROF == even lower recoil.
They are both completely unrealistic and needed to be fixed.

It's pretty obvious how higher ROF has less muzzle rise and does not go left/right nearly as much.


BluFor guns are not "fine" unless you only play BluFor. Last time I checked, IRL a higher rate of fire does not make gun more controllable...

Burn through ammo? Amount of ammo left is useless if you DIED first. And if you don't want to "burn" ammo...you could just fire on semiauto; the animation makes it easier to keep on target(pull down for the most part).

AK-74 has horrid horizontal recoil that made no sense(without muzzle brake, AK recoils top-right; with muzzle brake, AKM recoils mostly upwards and AK-74 recoils mostly backwards) in this game while M4 has less recoil in ANY direction...
Don't try to bullshit anyone. It's not impossible to shoot AK-74 somewhat accurately in full-auto; but it takes MUCH MORE effort to do so(because you just need to pull down a little with M4...etc.)...that is why BluFor weapons are easymode(which is completely unrealistic).

This is also why HAMAS is so popular; because they have M16...etc. that are just slightly worse than Tavor(sad day to be Warrior, you got to pick from shitty AK-"47" and shitty Galil).

Pictures tell nothing. You can see from my video(in 1080p60fps) that I was testing recoil, not deviation, from continuous firing. I can't tell from your picture where you fired from, how much you tried to compensate for recoil, or even what gun fired the bullets.

[rPoXoTauJIo]

Not every bluefor op actually. L85 is same shit, if not even worse. Type95 also having problems, won't you deny the fact that chinese forces are bluefor?

[ComradeHX]

Not every bluefor op actually. L85 is same shit, if not even worse. Type95 also having problems, won't you deny the fact that chinese forces are bluefor?

L85 has no such problem as recoil throwing aim left/right too much.
QBZ-95 isn't that bad either.

By your logic, RUS is also blufor; it happens once in a while when RUS or China gets on insurgency.

[Navo]

Hamas are OpFor and get AR15's.

There is no BluFor bias here, not the devs' fault the AR15 is designed to have low recoil.

[ComradeHX]

Hamas are OpFor and get AR15's.

There is no BluFor bias here, not the devs' fault the AR15 is designed to have low recoil.

Hamas is the exception, not the norm...
No matter how BluFor biased you are; people will easily catch your bullshit if M16A1 somehow shoots terribly compared to M4.

You know what else is designed to have low recoil? AK-74, and it does the job very well.
Except that's not the case in this game.

Notice how I posted nothing about AK-"47" and AKM because they DO have high recoil.

I call bullshit if anyone played this game for more than an hour and didn't notice how BluFor weapons are unrealistically easy(because higher rate of fire == lower recoil!!!) to use.

Location: netherlands... Why am I not surprised you would deny there is BluFor bias on these guns?

[Airsoft]

Lay off the personal attacks or this discussion is over.

Higher ROF guns do have less recoil in full auto in PR. You will see the recoil between for every shot in semi vs full auto is a different difference. The firing animation for the next round cancels out the previous round, similar to when you try to reload and immediately go prone. This is an engine limitation, not much we can do without changing full auto values to unrealistic numbers.

[tankninja1]

Somebody open a window its getting heated in here :0

[ComradeHX]

Lay off the personal attacks or this discussion is over.

Higher ROF guns do have less recoil in full auto in PR. You will see the recoil between for every shot in semi vs full auto is a different difference. The firing animation for the next round cancels out the previous round, similar to when you try to reload and immediately go prone. This is an engine limitation, not much we can do without changing full auto values to unrealistic numbers.

That's what I have been suggesting: to shorten recoil animation so it feels more "sharp"(as intended with guns that have shortstroke piston system...etc.).

---
After swapping around animations; I found out that AK-74 tends to cause gun to immediately start drifting left/right while L85 or Galil ironsight zoom_fire(firing while aiming down sight) animation tends to keep the first few rounds going up instead.

[MistakeNot]

Lay off the personal attacks or this discussion is over.

Higher ROF guns do have less recoil in full auto in PR. You will see the recoil between for every shot in semi vs full auto is a different difference. The firing animation for the next round cancels out the previous round, similar to when you try to reload and immediately go prone. This is an engine limitation, not much we can do without changing full auto values to unrealistic numbers.

This has always been my main gripe with PR. However, playing with the semi-auto rifles (SLR, M14) I noticed that the semi-auto shooting feels much more "on point". The carbines and rifles that are capable of fully automatic fire somehow seem to lose this trait and the recoil seem much harsher, so much so that auto is almost preferable.

I do understand the argument of using auto up close and single at longer range but single fire still feels under-powered when engaging in CQB. Quick taps with single fire should be a viable alternative. From my own experience shooting an AK equivalent in 7.62 x 39, it was always preferable to "get behind" the gun and tap multiple shots on target than switching over to automatic fire.

I understand if this is an issue that cannot be fixed, but I would appreciate confirmation if that is the case.

[mectus11]

You're replying to a post from 2015.

[Frontliner]

You can balance stuff out(900 RPM compared to 600 RPM compared to 450 RPM).
You can make semi more viable, too.

[MistakeNot]

You can balance stuff out(900 RPM compared to 600 RPM compared to 450 RPM).
You can make semi more viable, too.

You're implying that it is doable rather than I ought to do it it, I hope.