Beirut, 1.4.6. balance

[viirusiiseli]

The balance is off, although the new Beirut is significantly better than the old one, here's some feedback.

IDF doesn't get its fast HMMWVs anymore to rush flags, but Russians get BRDM-2 at start along with BTR-80.

IDF gets 2x M113, which can both be beaten with the BRDM, or anyone with a gun. Russia gets BMP-3, although no thermals it can still be superior to the Namer and can also take out Merkava.

Merkava spawns a few minutes before the T-90 but is still quite useless since IDF main bridges can easily be blown out and mined. The 20 minute delay gives the Russians good time to do it. It often has to fight both BMP-3 and T-90 at once as well.

In the case that both teams have good players, IDF is at a significant disadvantage. Especially since the M72 LAW is garbage and the Matador isn't that wonderful either.

A few options asset wise could work better:

• Delay the BTR80, either by the spawn time (10 minutes) or have it spawn on Factory, once capped (not sure, but might have opposite effect if capped quickly..?)
• Have namer and BMP-3 (carrier) spawn at the start. Probably not good, though.
• Give IDF a Vulcan M113 or two with considerable spawn times (15min?) at the start to counter BRDM-2 and BTR-80.
• Remove BMP-3, replace it with a BTR-80A, possibly upgrade the other BTR-80 with a BTR-80A as well.

The main base island is a large issue, that should be fixed. The hill is now DOD, to stop IDF from being able to defend coastal or gas station, (too..?) easily. It also takes away the possibility to watch the bridges and defend them, creating only 2 ways out of main. Both of those ways are extremely easy to camp with AT, TOW or assets because they are very narrow.

If the hill was not DOD, and the island would have a way to exit that isn't an easily destroyable bridge, it would help IDF. They could defend the bridges with armor and FOBs.

Alternatively, and possibly the easiest solution, the main could be moved back to A13, which was previously a good solution with no drawbacks as far as I remember.

[Outlawz7]

T90 spawn is tied to Russian Cargo Ship and spawns 20 minutes in at Factory regardless if or when Factory was or wasn't captured.

Namer was delayed because it could wreck Russian transport helicopters at start.

The hill was always DoD, if it's not DoD then Russians could also camp the IDF base from there. Coastal flag is gone.


So how's AAS Alt?

[Mats391]

From my experience IDF has a way easier time rushing than Russia. The BRDM and BTR spawn on carrier so it takes some time to reach land. In the mean time the M113 can just dash down the main road and kill all the cows unopposed.

[CAS_ual_TY]

The IDF bridge "situation" is a huge problem. Even if you get a close support bridge up, you are a very easy target for the enemy tank while passing them.

I agree with mats, but I think exchanging 1 transport truck with a transport humvee (wothout 50cal) would also be a good solution since it makes it easier for IDF to take a foothold on the east side of the bridges.

[FFG]

So how's AAS Alt?

AAS alt has a better flag layout for the tank. Its a lot harder for the russians to camp the tank with Tows, and they can't blow the bridges stopping it from moving. But Hind vs Tank is still a shit meme.

If alt was Tank verses Tank, Id say it would get played as often as STD is currently.

With IDF having the mainbase where it does on STD, and the Russians lack of DoD on the russian repair bay/mainbase flag. Its not a map that as an admin I can just throw on at any time of day.

[viirusiiseli]

T90 spawn is tied to Russian Cargo Ship and spawns 20 minutes in at Factory regardless if or when Factory was or wasn't captured.

Namer was delayed because it could wreck Russian transport helicopters at start.

The hill was always DoD, if it's not DoD then Russians could also camp the IDF base from there. Coastal flag is gone.


So how's AAS Alt?

I haven't gotten to play T-90 in this patch. Before, it was, for sure that T-90 spawned in at factory a few minutes after 3:40, meaning 20min from flag cap. It was changed?

Yeah I recognize the namer issue, having ruined Beirut rounds with it, in the past. That's why I suggested BMP-3 at the start, but that would most likely turn out to be a bad idea, too.

About the DOD, I meant it should be DOD for Russians only, not for both as it currently is. It would give IDF a pretty big advantage on holding the western part of the city. I think that advantage would be necessary.

I have only gotten to play alt maybe twice so take this lightly. I think it's a great layer but the flags need to be set well, because Docks not having DOD opens Russians up for the same problems IDF is facing on STD, and more. It is still much better, because BTRs are amphibious and logis can be supplemented with trans helis. ALT right now is IMO much better than STD.

I'm not sure how the Hind balances with the tank. I imagine it helps merkava stay alive while defensive, but should be easy to kill if it wonders too far. It's a great idea because the havok was too strong against IDF if well used. If Havok was brought back, IDF should get an AAV to work with the tank. I don't even think an avenger would be overkill.

Maybe a Vulcan M113 with 10min respawn and Hind-F could work as well? ATGM hind seems OP against infantry with its 128 hydras, but in reality falls short of that fear very often unless it is used as BVR artillery with a good spotter. It is killed very easily with AAs should it decide to fire hydras, using which lowers its altitude quickly to easy kill levels. Especially since its armor is literally no help against AAs, which is silly.

And if Russia "only" gets CAS against the tank, they should get one or two 80As?

From my experience IDF has a way easier time rushing than Russia. The BRDM and BTR spawn on carrier so it takes some time to reach land. In the mean time the M113 can just dash down the main road and kill all the cows unopposed.

Russian helis are hard to kill with M113, as it is extremely slow to get to any spot worth camping. Simple .50cal HMMWVs would outperform the M113s in this map easily. Usually once you get to the main road past the bridge, the helis are already flying low in building cover to market and the other eastern flags. After that, it's a slow loud vehicle with an open turret .50cal against enemies in good cover.

BTR-80 takes a long while to get to land, but BRDM-2 is a bit faster and can still get to the first IDF flags before they are capped. With its zoom, closed turret and new HE/AP rounds it can do much more against IDF than the M113s can to Russians, despite getting there later.

For example, IDF capped Gas Station, then moved to Construction Site. Once they were getting ready to leave, the open area around the flag allowed the BRDM to kill nearly 20 guys there. By the time the BRDM was done with them, BTR was already on land too.

The way I see it, Russia has better tools to do damage than IDF.

[FFG]

I've done the HIND twice on Beirut alt. Both times I played, I managed to shut the Tank down as soon as it engaged the russian team. The layer needs an M163 tbh. Apart from static/kit AA. You basically get free reign in the HIND if you know how to abuse it.

[Outlawz7]

I haven't gotten to play T-90 in this patch. Before, it was, for sure that T-90 spawned in at factory a few minutes after 3:40, meaning 20min from flag cap. It was changed?

It used to spawn 20 minutes after Factory was captured, yes.

About the DOD, I meant it should be DOD for Russians only, not for both as it currently is. It would give IDF a pretty big advantage on holding the western part of the city. I think that advantage would be necessary.

Cue 'IDF firing from DoD'.

[viirusiiseli]

It used to spawn 20 minutes after Factory was captured, yes.



Cue 'IDF firing from DoD'.

That would still be my solution to 'fix' this layer, since the hills can also be engaged BVR. Of course moving the main to A13 would be the best option imo.

[Filamu]

As it is now it is now with the DoD it is fairly impossible to hold the gas station flag. Maybe either remove the
dod or move the flag.

[Outlawz7]

So how's the new one?

[X-Alt]

So how's the new one?

What's the point of playing Beirut if you can't rush Factory and mine the T-90 spawn?

[Hunter291]

What's the point of playing Beirut if you can't rush Factory and mine the T-90 spawn?

You couldn't do that on any sever so...

[Hunter291]

#GIvebackNamer #GivebackBMP3 please

[Carti]

You couldn't do that on any sever so...

But it happened to me many times.

The standard layout feels weird to me, the russians clearly have an advantage with the brdm-2 and the btr-80.

I think the devs should change IDF to an other faction, like Britain, with a Panther, Warrior and a Chally. And maybe the Alt layout could have CAS choppers and instead of tanks.

[Unarmed Civilian]

Russia wins much more now than before, it was the other way around in my experience.

IDF's LAT kit sure is a let down with two weaker rockets than the RPGs.

Since it's Beirut, I think Lebanon, perhaps could we have an alternative IDF x Syrian Army / Rebels from Sbenet there?

[PBAsydney]

Russia wins much more now than before, it was the other way around in my experience.

IDF's LAT kit sure is a let down with two weaker rockets than the RPGs.

Since it's Beirut, I think Lebanon, perhaps could we have an alternative IDF x Syrian Army / Rebels from Sbenet there?

The problem is that you cant have different voices on the same map, so the Syrians would speak Russian.

[Filamu]

Somewhat accurate I guess

[Raidonrai]

Main problem with current Beirut imo is lack of IDF logistics vehicles. Give IDF one more logi truck at beginning of the round.

[Unarmed Civilian]

The problem is that you cant have different voices on the same map, so the Syrians would speak Russian.

Can't we duplicate the files and change the audio? I know it'd incur in a larger download size, something the Devs don't want AFAIK.