[WIP] [Vehicle] Super Etendard

[anantdeathhawk]

All done as said except capping the back side of the foot wells.

Screens:










Thanks!

[anantdeathhawk]

I am moving to UV the cockpit how many sheets should i make?
-for cockpit piece
-canopy glass
-buttons and ejection handle

Thanks.

[Mineral]

I think the glass we can likely use one of our existing glass textures. Outside of that the entire 1p interior should be on one sheet all together. Buttons included. Do know the engine supports rectangular sheets as well so don't need to stick to a square format if that doesn't work well.

But as usual, perhaps best to ask Rhino for exact ideal size and texture setup.

[anantdeathhawk]

@[R-DEV]RHINO Feedback please!?

[Rhino]

Can't really see anything with the skeleton in the way and you've left out the most important screenshot, what it looks like from the 1st person perspective. Also your rudder pedals are nothing like what they are in r/l:


From F-16 sim: https://www.virginexperiencedays.co.uk/ ... 080612.jpg

Also once you've done that, best send me what you have before begging to UV it.

[anantdeathhawk]

I thought you wanted it 2D and would apply texture for 3D look. Yeah i'll post the 1st person view as well.
Thanks!

[anantdeathhawk]

Update:
Cockpit glass remains to be made.
Camera view is done. Camera FOV as per BF2/PR.
SCREENS:




Thanks!

Latest File Sent in PM.

[Rhino]

Well first of all few jets in PR (and especially vBF2 which just has a totally removed area below the forward displays) have their Rudder Pedals actually modelled, not even the Harrier which just has the footwells in total darkness. I wouldn't recommend this thou as even thou players will only see details like this when looking down into the cockpit, it is still worth having them, if done correctly since they don't take up that much extra UV space, tris or texture memory, which is only loaded by the players who enter the vehicle so it is all fine to go into these extra details nowadays, but ye no point going overboard with them, making things the player will not see even when looking down etc.

First of all this area here is the most important part of your cockpit, the view straight ahead which is what players will be seeing 90% of the time, less if they use their POV views a lot or free cams etc but ye, that is your most important area. Note this shot has been taken of the 3rd person cockpit from the current export of the SupEt, which has no real textures etc yet but you should get the idea.


One jet in PR that does have some Rudder Pedals made, and more or less correctly (although the cockpit really could do with a better/much stronger AO map and better textures etc) is the Tornado. It probably doesn't need the side and bottom sides modelled on them and probably could even get away with the top side being removed but since that is an only an extra 4 tris total and not much UV space that's worth it in this case.



Note they are not visible in normal view, you have to look down to see them:




Anyways moving on to your cockpit, first a better shot of the SupEt rudder pedals.


Also don't forget about this manual, has lots of good refs and explains a lot, even if it is in French: http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/ai ... ome-1.html

Now when I said ages ago "2D Rudder Pedals" I meant just making them a flat, 2D face where they are, with no inside detail and doing that indent in them with the textures/normals. As such the front of your new are fine for that, but you've also modelled their backfaces no one will see unless somehow they can crouch down into the cockpit and stick their head behind them to see
You also don't want those old lump things you made behind them, they wouldn't be there in r/l since they slide back and forwards when you push them, a bit like these (but natrually wont ingame): https://www.relictech.co.za/wp-content/ ... -37175.jpg

As for making their side faces, I don't think its worth the extra tris in this case, or if you do, only the ones you can see when looking down from the cockpit position. Rember to delete all the faces you can't see from the sitting position, as you won't just save tris but UV space too, that otherwise goes to waste.

[anantdeathhawk]

Update:
Things may not be as proper you want, take a look into the model when you can, and i have deleted most faces, not all, which won't show up when in a sitting position.

SCREENS:
Objects that make up the cockpit.




Thanks!

New File sent in PM

[Rhino]

Right Anant as I mentioned over PMs there is quite a bit to fix with this cockpit and first of all are you up for fixing these issues on your own as, to put it bluntly, based on previous attempts I think there is simply just too much of a language barrier between us for me to try and explain what needs to be fixed.

I've done a test export of the cockpit with automat UV and quick AO bake so you can more easily see the issues that need fixing and if your up for fixing the cockpit I can send it over with everything else but a quick few screenshots which you can clearly see, are a bunch of issues with missing faces, smoothing and lighting errors, and general modelling errors here and there. Right now most of the 3p model is included with it just so you can easily see which parts you can see from the cockpit (ie, the wings etc) but most of it, along with a bunch of unseen faces on your 1p cockpit model would be removed with most of it too, to save on unnecessary tris.







(already removed that backplate that doesn't represent the shape of the fuselage behind the seat, and replaced with the 3p back which I would recommend keeping rather than making a new 1p one with its own texture, not worth the UV space https://i.imgur.com/mM4hWvG.jpg)

Also another thing is your 3D gauges, buttons, switches and lights don't seem to be placed that accurately comparing them with the refs and as you can see by doing a quick UV to one of the main cockpit refs, a lot of stuff is quite off, even thou this is only a quick example things should be much closer, mainly the Artifical Horizon, some of the main switches and some scaling of some stuff too ideally needs a bit of tweaking


So ye, let me know if your up for trying to fix this up some more and you can see what needs to be done on your own as otherwise I'm going to have to try and find time to fix it myself and I don't have much time these days and should really be focusing on my Frigate tbh.


Also one other thing, what is this thing in front of the HUD? I can't see it on any of the refs, although some refs I can see what looks to be the base of it, but nothing more? There is the manual that shows a blocky thing there but while it identifies most other things in that diagram, it doesn't identify that either. Unless you've got any refs other than the manual with it and/or know what it is/does, I say remove it.

[anantdeathhawk]

Hey!!,
Well ofcourse i am up for it, as i made those mistakes in the first place .
Yeah, i forgot to apply smoothing groups tp those places, i'll rectify those.

This cockpit drawing from the manual, on which i based the shape.
http://www.avialogs.com/viewer/avialogs-documentviewer.php?id=1890


And from the above image this is explained a bit in 2D, though its vague.So yeah i'll remove it.


Please send over the file.
Thanks!

[Rhino]

Cool, will sort the files out and send you a PM with the details.

Ye the cockpit diagram in the manual isn't totally accurate, one easy to spot example is the Master (or maybe Secondary?) Arm Cover/Switch here:


Which if you compare it to the refs, isn't as long, isn't so close to the HUD and is much higher up:




Best never to rely on just one ref for anything, especially if it is just a sketch and even when it is an accurate technical drawing (which are hard to find truly accurate ones of anything on the net) sometimes they can easily be misinterpreted and best to use a 3D photo to see it from another angle.

BTW not totally necessary but think it would be worth adding some more 3D buttons, switches and leavers. There are some quite big ones that would benefit from it. Anything small and/or shallow best to do with the normal map but anything that sticks out much is best to model
Here are a few suggestions, the ones lower down in cyan (light blue) are not so important since they won't be really seen but still nice to have.


Also another thing is that anything shallow like these are best to weld up, especially boxy things like this that won't add many more tris to weld them to avoid zfighting. Also don't see any need for the very slightly chamfered edges on the front, can do that effect with the normals better and really they should probably dip in from the edges rather than bump out, but ye, either way best to do that with the normal.


And these indicators should make them longer as per the 3D refs as keeping them this short will just mean they will zfight and best to do anything this shallow with the texture normals.


Anyways ye I'll sort out the files for you and PM you in a bit with them.

[anantdeathhawk]

Okay, i'll do the changes and update you as soon as, in a week.
Thanks!

[Rhino]

@anantdeathhawk, do you have the BF2 Editor installed and with working with a PR_EDIT mod, and do you know how to use the basic of its Object Editor? I need to know if I need to go over the basics of how to view/use the object editor or not with you, if I don't have will speed things up for me. Also, do you know the basics of exporting models from max to BF2?

If you don't have the BF2 Editor installed, get it installed and sorted because you will not be able to properly see how your model looks/works ingame which is pretty critical to fixing it. BFMeshView will not show the model properly but more importantly, is much harder to get the viewing angles and right FOVs etc to see the problems.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... dding.html

Thanks and let me know ASAP since I'm sorting this stuff out for you at the moment.

Also I should note that if it wasn't clear from my posts before, don't begin editing your current .max scene as exporting any changes from yours back into the export scene isn't the simplest process and best to be avoided. So if you have made any significant changes to the cockpit then either you will need to redo them, or I will need to merge them in with the proper export scene I will send you in a bit but any future edits you do, should be done to the export .max scene and not any others.

[Rhino]

Editor

I'm going to assume you don't know much about the Editor so going to run though the basics you need quickly.

Once you've got the Editor setup fully from my last post, from the files I've sent you copy the "arg_jet_superetendard" folder into your "\mods\pr_edit\objects\vehicles\Air\" and then you can load the model up in the editor's "Object Editor", double clicking on it will open it.


By default in this case, because there is currently no wreck geom, geom0, the first person mesh will be loaded by default but in case you need to switch between 1p and 3p, since for example after entering and exiting a vehicle, it automatically switches to the 3p model after that, you can switch back to the 1p model again by scrolling to the bottom of the "Resources" Bar, expanding the "geom" tab and then selecting "geom_0" (selecting "geom_1" will show the 3p model):


You can enter the cockpit by clicking the "Enter" in the top right. In the default "Free" mode you can fly around by pressing the spacebar to activate the view and then using the mouse to look, and W,A,S,D to move around. In "Enter" mode you will be in the vehicle like you would be ingame, and like Free mode, press spacebar to activate the view/controls and then you can change weapons (7,8 and 9 are the POV weapons, with right click to use their secondary views) and hold down Ctrl and look with the mouse to use the freecam. If you want to be able to move around/fly the jet, you can click the enable physcis button but the jet is nowhere near fully coded and is pretty buggy right now, as well as flying in the Object Editor is pretty hard since you have no refs other than the small grid in the middle of the area


I think that covers the basics, ask if you have any questions on how to do something or if you get stuck.


Info

First of all, I've stripped back the 3p model to what can be seen from the cockpit, plus a little extra to help with smoothing etc. A little more could be shaved off but it's best to have a little bit extra than not.


I've also sorted out a smoother ejector handle for the 1p model and UVed it to the 3p textures since the 3p textures for it where highish rez, but it could still potentially be UVed onto the 1p textures but unless you've got a lot of free space on them that you can't use up in any other way (which is very unlikely), then it's best just to use the 3p textures like this. Could potentially remove the top faces off this too but that will affect the smoothing a bit so for now just leave them on and can easily remove them later if we do need to save on some tris. One other thing is I might slightly change the UVs later on if the 1p one dose use the 3p textures so the seam is on the inside of the cylinder and not on the underside as right now it is pretty visible from 1p when looking at it, but that's a simple change I can do later so don't worry about that, just thought I would note it for now.


As talked about before I have included the 3p ejector seat and also the 3p cockpit's back wall, since both are hardly seen and best they use the same textures as the 3p cockpit and to integrate them into the 1p cockpit fully. Currently, it has all the hidden faces included in it as they don't take up many tris and already have UV space assigned to them on the 3p model so that isn't a worry and can remove them later if need be. Also you may want to remove or Re-UV the cockpit frame (where the glass attaches) from the 3p model at the back when integrating it with the 1p model so they can share the same texture as the rest of the 1p model but ye, you can decide on that, just don't feel you have to use them, they are just there incase you do.


Again if really need be, these bits you see of the seat could be UVed to the 1p texture but again, only if you have a lot of UV space to spare and this is quite a big area that is only seen when you use the freelook camera and look all the way down to inspect the cockpit so don't think that is worth it. Also worth noting that you can modify the seat model a bit even if you intend to use the 3p textures on it, to give it some more tris and make it smoother etc, but if you intend to use the 3p textures on it you need to keep in mind any changes you make need to work with the current textures.




Cameras

I've also added cameras with the same positions, rotations and settings as the ingame cameras currently coded to the SupEt so you can see, what you can see, from each POV camera and the main/free camera.


The "Camera_Pilot_Free (+70/-35 X, +/- 115deg Z)" in its default rotation of 0/0/0 is also the default forward-looking camera the pilot will have (although possibly subject to change after playtesting, right now it looks down by 7degs which is flat when it's sitting on the ground but this might or might not be odd when actually in the air and trying to shoot people so might have to change a little). In its name are its min and max rotation angles for when it is in freelook mode, which are +70degs up in X or -35degs down in X, and for its Z axis it can rotate left or right by 115degs max. You can rotate the camera by more than this in the editor naturally but best not. Also don't move these cameras at all as that will screw them up, only rotate the freecam if you need and within its limits but still best to use the freecam in the editor than in max scince it is much harder to use in max but still can be helpful.


Also note that in the bottom left viewport where the camera is active I've also enabled safe frames with a 1920*1080 render settings so you can see the same borders most players will ingame so best you enable safe frames when viewing these cameras to get a true idea of what players will be able to see from what angles:


I've also added a "Camera_Pilot_Free_BackLeft01/02" camera which 01 is the very limit of how far the player can look back over their shoulder. Also note the freecam has it's pivot offset so the player looks a bit around the seat when looking back.



Finally on the cameras, the "Camera_DEFAULT" is just a camera with the default FOV settings max normally uses if you need to reset your perspective view settings after possibly using one of the other cameras in it's viewport. Just switch that viewport to use that camera then set it back to perspective view to go back to the default max FOV settings.


Max Scene Setup

Next on the things you need for the 1p cockpit model, this is everything you need from your current 1p cockpit and the 3p parts:


Everything else in the scene is either a backup, for reference or animation or for the 3p model export.


Note all of this is part of the 1st person export, with the slight exception of the "root_bundledMesh_arg_jet_superetendard" helper which is really the header for the entire export, but everything under "geom0" is part of the 1st person model (anything under "geom1" is the 3rd person model export). Note how the Elevator and Alerions are in this export too. While the Elevator is the 1tri dummy mesh since it can't be seen from the cockpit, but it's required in the 1p model like this for coding reasons I won't bore you with. The Alerions, however, can be seen from the cockpit and as such do have their top faces there although have the underside faces removed since they can't be seen. It is important you keep these as they are for the export to work correctly.



Export Tools Setup
First download and install these tools: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=145720

And taking this from one of my other tuts:

When you have them installed (and 3DsMax restarted) go to BF2 > Export


The Export window will popup and in the top right hand corner of it will be a small button called "Run Setup", click that.


A new window will popup and in it, we need to define a bunch of settings. The output directory is to what modification all your exports get exported to, I would advise you to export to PR_EDIT but export to w/e mod you like, but export to the "bf2" or "pr" mod at your own risk. I have filled out in it: C:/Program Files (x86)/EA GAMES/Battlefield 2/mods/pr_edit/ Thou this will most likely be different on your PC since I'm on a 64bit system, hence the "Program Files (x86)" in the file path and you might have your BF2 installed onto a different hard drive than C: or in a different location. All in all, its best to just browse to the mod folder and select it by clicking the Browse button

In section 2 you need to list all the mods you might be using textures etc out of, so in my list I have:

Code: Select all

/rawData/
/mods/bf2/
/mods/poe2/
/mods/pr/
/mods/pr_edit/
/mods/usidev/
/mods/eod_dev/
/mods/bfp2_edit/

Thou you can include as many mods as you like etc. The first 2 lines, /rawData/ and /mods/bf2/ are 100% critical, as well as a bunch of others if you are exporting to pr / pr_edit.

Your settings should look like this by then end:


Now your exporter is setup and everything should be good for exporting and with any luck you wont need to do this again, unless you reinstall etc

Exporting

Right the first thing you need to do is assign all your 1p parts that are going to use a new 1p texture sheet to use a dummy material/texture for a test export. I've included a flat grey "dummy.dds" texture in the SupEts texture folder and this is part of "Material 4" in the export Multi-Sub object Material. (the "Cockpit" From the files I've sent you copy the "arg_jet_superetendard" folder into your "\mods\pr_edit\objects\vehicles\Air\" and then you can load the model up in the editor's "Object Editor"



Info

First of all, I've stripped back the 3p model to what can be seen from the cockpit, plus a little extra to help with smoothing etc. A little more could be shaved off but it's best to have a little bit extra than not.


I've also sorted out a smoother ejector handle for the 1p model and UVed it to the 3p textures since the 3p textures for it where highish rez, but it could still potentially be UVed onto the 1p textures but unless you've got a lot of free space on them that you can't use up in any other way (which is very unlikely), then it's best just to use the 3p textures like this. Could potentially remove the top faces off this too but that will affect the smoothing a bit so for now just leave them on and can easily remove them later if we do need to save on some tris.


As talked about before I have included the 3p ejector seat and also the 3p cockpit's back wall, since both are hardly seen and best they use the same textures as the 3p cockpit and to integrate them into the 1p cockpit fully. Currently, it has all the hidden faces included in it as they don't take up many tris and already have UV space assigned to them on the 3p model so that isn't a worry and can remove them later if need be. Also you may want to remove or Re-UV the cockpit frame (where the glass attaches) from the 3p model at the back when integrating it with the 1p model so they can share the same texture as the rest of the 1p model but ye, you can decide on that, just don't feel you have to use them, they are just there incase you do.


Again if really need be, these bits you see of the seat could be UVed to the 1p texture but again, only if you have a lot of UV space to spare and this is quite a big area that is only seen when you use the freelook camera and look all the way down to inspect the cockpit so don't think that is worth it. Also worth noting that you can modify the seat model a bit even if you intend to use the 3p textures on it, to give it some more tris and make it smoother etc, but if you intend to use the 3p textures on it you need to keep in mind any changes you make need to work with the current textures.




Cameras

I've also added cameras with the same positions, rotations and settings as the ingame cameras currently coded to the SupEt so you can see, what you can see, from each POV camera and the main/free camera.


The "Camera_Pilot_Free (+70/-35 X, +/- 115deg Z)" in its default rotation of 0/0/0 is also the default forward-looking camera the pilot will have (although possibly subject to change after playtesting, right now it looks down by 7degs which is flat when it's sitting on the ground but this might or might not be odd when actually in the air and trying to shoot people so might have to change a little). In its name are its min and max rotation angles for when it is in freelook mode, which are +70degs up in X or -35degs down in X, and for its Z axis it can rotate left or right by 115degs max. You can rotate the camera by more than this in the editor naturally but best not. Also don't move these cameras at all as that will screw them up, only rotate the freecam if you need and within its limits but still best to use the freecam in the editor than in max scince it is much harder to use in max but still can be helpful.


Also note that in the bottom left viewport where the camera is active I've also enabled safe frames with a 1920*1080 render settings so you can see the same borders most players will ingame so best you enable safe frames when viewing these cameras to get a true idea of what players will be able to see from what angles:


I've also added a "Camera_Pilot_Free_BackLeft01/02" camera which 01 is the very limit of how far the player can look back over their shoulder. Also note the freecam has it's pivot offset so the player looks a bit around the seat when looking back.



Finally on the cameras, the "Camera_DEFAULT" is just a camera with the default FOV settings max normally uses if you need to reset your perspective view settings after possibly using one of the other cameras in it's viewport. Just switch that viewport to use that camera then set it back to perspective view to go back to the default max FOV settings.


Max Scene Setup

Next on the things you need for the 1p cockpit model, this is everything you need from your current 1p cockpit and the 3p parts:


Everything else in the scene is either a backup, for reference or animation or for the 3p model export.


Note all of this is part of the 1st person export, with the slight exception of the "root_bundledMesh_arg_jet_superetendard" helper which is really the header for the entire export, but everything under "geom0" is part of the 1st person model (anything under "geom1" is the 3rd person model export). Note how the Elevator and Alerions are in this export too. While the Elevator is the 1tri dummy mesh since it can't be seen from the cockpit, but it's required in the 1p model like this for coding reasons I won't bore you with. The Alerions, however, can be seen from the cockpit and as such do have their top faces there although have the underside faces removed since they can't be seen. It is important you keep these as they are for the export to work correctly.



Export Tools Setup
First download and install these tools: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=145720

And taking this from one of my other tuts:

When you have them installed (and 3DsMax restarted) go to BF2 > Export


The Export window will popup and in the top right hand corner of it will be a small button called "Run Setup", click that.


A new window will popup and in it, we need to define a bunch of settings. The output directory is to what modification all your exports get exported to, I would advise you to export to PR_EDIT but export to w/e mod you like, but export to the "bf2" or "pr" mod at your own risk. I have filled out in it: C:/Program Files (x86)/EA GAMES/Battlefield 2/mods/pr_edit/ Thou this will most likely be different on your PC since I'm on a 64bit system, hence the "Program Files (x86)" in the file path and you might have your BF2 installed onto a different hard drive than C: or in a different location. All in all, its best to just browse to the mod folder and select it by clicking the Browse button

In section 2 you need to list all the mods you might be using textures etc out of, so in my list I have:

Code: Select all

/rawData/
/mods/bf2/
/mods/poe2/
/mods/pr/
/mods/pr_edit/
/mods/usidev/
/mods/eod_dev/
/mods/bfp2_edit/

Thou you can include as many mods as you like etc. The first 2 lines, /rawData/ and /mods/bf2/ are 100% critical, as well as a bunch of others if you are exporting to pr / pr_edit.

Your settings should look like this by then end:


Now your exporter is setup and everything should be good for exporting and with any luck you wont need to do this again, unless you reinstall etc

Exporting

NOTE: Before doing this, you will probably want to clone all your 1p files (NOT including the export files under "root_bundledMesh_arg_jet_superetendard") and only attach them otherwise you will have to revert to a backup or work with them as they are, or detach them to work with them off the 3p parts.
Also note doing an export will overwrite the old exported mesh files and the ones I've given you by default are the ones with the test AO bake, and low poly, 3p ejector seat handles etc and if you want to restore those for whatever reason, simplest thing to do is just re-extract them over the new files.

Right the first thing you need to do is assign all your 1p parts that are going to use a new 1p texture sheet to use a dummy material/texture for a test export. I've included a flat grey "dummy.dds" texture in the SupEts texture folder and this is part of "Material 4" in the export Multi-Sub object Material. (the "Cockpit" material is of the AO test I did before but that's no good for a new test export since that AO bake was for that automatic UV I did of the first test cockpit and won't apply to yours):


I've already assigned all your 1p parts to use material 4 and assigned the export material to them but any new parts you make you will want to ensure are set to MatID 4 and the correct material is assigned to them also.


Then before you can do a test export, all you need to do is select the 1p's, geom0's, lod0's "_PlayerControlObject" (the fuselage with all the removed faces that can't be seen from the cockpit, not to be confused with the 3p one under the same name but under geom1) and under Edit Geometry section of the modifier bar, click the "Attach List" button and then attach all the 1p bits to it.


Then once all the 1p parts are part of the 1p "_PlayerControlObject" Mesh and with it selected, go to BF2>Export at the top, the export window will pop up and all you should need to do now is just hit export.


After that, if you still have the editor running you should see a window pop up saying the .con file has changed and do you want to reload it, click No as it should be the same as it was before and clicking yes will just be a waste of time of the editor reloading the same code it has loaded.
NOTE: Do not be in "Entre" mode (ie, inside the vehicle controlling it) when you either reload the code as per above, or the next bit with reloading the Geom as that will crash the editor if you are in that mode when you do so.
Then click "Reload Geometry" on the right to reload the mesh and you will get the new mesh loaded in the editor, without having to restart the editor (ignore any errors that might flash up in the bottom about the code, that's normal).


While the export will look very flat, with a flat texture, you can still easily spot any errors in the model etc, some more easily than if it had an AO map or a non-flat texture.



And I've even spotted that I've removed a little too much of the air intakes from this which I didn't pick up from my max cams which is why I insist on testing with the editor on these matters and not just max
Will fix it now before I send the files off to you btw



Think that covers everything. Check your PMs for the files.

[anantdeathhawk]

I meant, that i will make changes as i get the file from you.
No experience with the editor, haven't read your tutorial yet.I will surely try it.
Thanks!

[anantdeathhawk]

This image is at an angle which when used, misplaces every object on the cockpit instrumentation panel.
Should i model things, as close as possible as you said? I ask this because, how the texture is going to be applied on it, based on the photograph like a lay over or painted by hand? ( i don't know about texturing by photos)



Thanks!

[Rhino]

Naturally, you don't use an image that is at a different angle from the view your using it on as a direct ref as then everything would be out of proportions.

You can attempt to correct it like I have done here, either by UVing it to the base to correct the angle and then working on top of it (but you would want to UV it to a copy, and probably one without all the 3D details on it, just the flat background with just the borders etc as otherwise as you work you would distort the UVs) a bit like I did in this example, but this was only a quick one and as such, you can see some things are messed up so you would want to do better than this but the general concept is the same (This is what I would do along with the last point btw):


Or you try to correct the proportions in Photoshop and then have it as a flat background image but that is normally harder to get right.

Or you do as a painter would and just keep on glancing at the ref, and others as well and working out for yourself where things should be, which you should be doing even if you do setup a background as like I said before, very few refs/drawings etc are totally accurate and can easily be misinterpreted when they even are.

[anantdeathhawk]

Thanks!
Don't mind, but only the last option of eyeballing it seems easy for me. I'll post the results today.After this i'll setup the editor.

[Rhino]

Any updates Anant? Have you managed to view this in the editor etc?