put squad v12 revive system into PR

[Psyko]

Except I believe all professional armies train every soldier to apply first aid to themselves or others to hold over until more qualified people come along. This was a hamfisted idea (talking kits and medic system interaction) and I'm glad they are realizing the error they made years ago.

so...if soldiers are able to patch each other up...then you agree, every soldier should be able to rescue a fallen comrade?


which one is it?

[Rhino]

I'm not totally sure on this but I believe that due to the limitations of the BF2 engine, in order to be able to revive or heal players, we would have to remove the "repair" ability from all our soldiers, which would mean they wouldn't be able to build deployables with their shovels. The bandages get around this issue by not healing directly from the player like the medic bag does, but from being a mini supply crate dropped on the ground so to speak. This is the main reason why the medic does not have a shovel because even if he did have one, he couldn't use it with also being able to heal players as you can either set him to be able to only do one or the other, repair things or heal people, not both. This may not apply to reviving, I don't know about that, but it probably does.

[Psyko]

I'm not totally sure on this but I believe that due to the limitations of the BF2 engine, in order to be able to revive or heal players, we would have to remove the "repair" ability from all our soldiers, which would mean they wouldn't be able to build deployables with their shovels. The bandages get around this issue by not healing directly from the player like the medic bag does, but from being a mini supply crate dropped on the ground so to speak. This is the main reason why the medic does not have a shovel because even if he did have one, he couldn't use it with also being able to heal players as you can either set him to be able to only do one or the other, repair things or heal people, not both. This may not apply to reviving, I don't know about that, but it probably does.

I'm checking you off my Christmas list.


So I'm guessing that you developers wanted to put the idea in the game some time ago... because you know far too much about why it cant be implemented, so you had to go with plan B?

[ALADE3N]

Creating a really shortrange fake firearm, with negative explosion forces (implosions) and a dragging animation when you press fire.
You fire the weapon close to the wounded body into the ground and the implosion forces drags the body closer to the point where you aimed at than you go a step backward and press fire again .... than again .... than again till you reached cover.

Problem could be people staring trolling with it. You could also drag small ammocrates.

but can we integrate it with python so it can only drag wounded players?

[lakinen]

In squad v12 you can simply revive ANYBODY with one of your patches, your stamina doesn't replenish until you return to the medic to get finished up.

-It can be done,adding Epipen to others kits.(normally to put only one epipen to kit,so if you succeed from the first you are lucky+give to him medikit dressing+medic to get finished up )-good for gameplay

I'm not totally sure on this but I believe that due to the limitations of the BF2 engine, in order to be able to revive or heal players, we would have to remove the "repair" ability from all our soldiers, which would mean they wouldn't be able to build deployables with their shovels.

-There is no need for remove the "repair" ability ,because klappspaten(shovel) and epipen they are not the same "ObjectTemplate.itemIndex " number.
Probably there is a reason why it was not put shovel on medic.But this is not a programming reason.Probably because gameplay.

greeting

There's no real flame on your screen, it's just magic

[Rhino]

.... seriously?

I'm on about this code you find in each kit:

Code: Select all

ObjectTemplate.createComponent Ability
ObjectTemplate.ability.hasRepairingAbility 1

Or as you find it in the medic kit:

Code: Select all

ObjectTemplate.createComponent Ability
ObjectTemplate.ability.hasHealingAbility 1

[Outlawz7]

I think the ability code line might only be needed to display the repair/heal bar at bottom right, the medic icons when you use 'i need a medic' and see who's medic on the map etc. and there should also be a rearm ability, at least in vBF2.

[Rhino]

I think the ability code line might only be needed to display the repair/heal bar at bottom right, the medic icons when you use 'i need a medic' and see who's medic on the map etc. and there should also be a rearm ability, at least in vBF2.

Na that's part of the "AbilityHud", not the "Ability". Pretty sure if you remove it, they can't repair or heal, depending on which one it was before.

[lakinen]

It looks like there is a misunderstanding.What you wrote maybe it is and maybe it is not.Should try to see what that the code is for:

I'm on about this code you find in each kit:
Code:

ObjectTemplate.createComponent Ability
ObjectTemplate.ability.hasRepairingAbility 1

Or as you find it in the medic kit:
Code:

ObjectTemplate.createComponent Ability
ObjectTemplate.ability.hasHealingAbility 1

-In the case of this topic,there is no need to remove "repair" ability".Why?
As I see it(in medic code), it does not mean that only medic can revive others,anyone can.Maybe this code you wrote really serves to heal players.But we're interested in revive.
Example:
When you use patches and you heal you and others(and you're not a medic)-Works

In this story,we're the only interested in this code:

rem ---BeginComp:ResurrectCollisionComp ---
ObjectTemplate.createComponent ResurrectCollisionComp
ObjectTemplate.collision.resurrectDamage 20000
ObjectTemplate.collision.restoreHP 0.1

To me it means you revive someone,and give it to him certain number of HP.If this code works independently of "Ability"(medic class) then it's possible anybody to revive. Maybe I'm wrong but should try.

[FFG]

Back in may Fuzzhead asked me for some Feedback and ideas from PR players for SQUAD.

One of the complaints common in all the PR players I had spoken to about SQUAD was the medic system. So after thinking for it for about a week and discussing it with said people I spoke to and then came back to Fuzz with this idea.

"slight tweak of the medic system" So without the kits being pickup-able, An Idea we threw around was that patches worked like epipens in PR. You can revive with them to like 5% health and then the medic can heal everyone up. This allows squads not to be linch pinned on the medic/rally.

Now the reason this works in SQUAD is because you can't pickup kits. This means while you can revive your buddies you cant heal them to full and they have to go rearm before they can do it again. Still keeping the medic integral to the squads in SQUAD.

This wouldn't work in PR for the exact reason it was made this way. Using patches to revive sounds good but you can pickup kits, which means you can not only revive without medic but heal to full without medic. This would promote lone-wolfing to a new level.

[Psyko]

edit:
nvm

[Psyko]

.... seriously?

Okay what size socks do you take?



edit:

This wouldn't work in PR for the exact reason it was made this way. Using patches to revive sounds good but you can pickup kits, which means you can not only revive without medic but heal to full without medic. This would promote lone-wolfing to a new level.

Problems with that include, stealing kits from downed players, and losing the kit if it disappears into the ground.

[Dr. Phil Perlmutter]

If there should be a change at all in the way injuries have to be cured, it should definitely not be that everyone should be able to revive with patches or whatever, hell, please no, but take a look at the soldiers equipment in real life and what they are drilled to do!
What I mean is basically having first aid possibilities and work every soldiers knows such as check vital signs, check injuries (checking for additional bleedings other than the obvious ones), getting wounded body in certain positions, fe on side when unconscious or legs up when in shock state.
As well applying first aid equipment as tourniquets, morphine, quikclot etc. would be cool.
This should be influence the time how long a medic could take further action to save the injured soldiers life, cause in reality, the first 10 minutes can lead to life or death, depending if right actions were done or not.

Also, medic should get more variability of action, such as applying infusions etc.


But i am afraid that cannot be achieved with this engine as well as moving bodies, and I am not sure if many would love such a more complex system, I would definitely, especially because the best way to play medic is to lay at safe spots which can be boring at times.
If medics had a more complex system in terms of treating wounded comrades, this would be a much more interesing challenge, especially if wrong decisions could lead to death of the wounded soldier, as in reality.

But I really should say that that this are really high expectations and the game is the best already imo, we should not finally forget that the guys who have created and are developing this mod even further, are doing that in their spare time while probably having family and work, they are not paid for it at all ( which is probably the reason why the game is that great ), but doing it because they love the project.
So I say thanks to the developer team, which is probably said not often enough.

[Heavy Death]

You have to take this game with a grain of salt. Chinook has 8 slots, but two crates with which you can quickly build a FOB with fortifications and others can spawn in, if you squint it's almost like the chopper landing more people.

Same is with medic systems. A bandage can be applied from anyone to anyone, it includes bandaging, tourniquets, bleed stoppage etc. Combat medic is responsible for critical stuff lke heavy bleeding, loss of consciousnes, heavy trauma, applying morphine, adrenaline etc. It's just a very simple system. Also the wounded soldier loses 1 ticket, which kinda represents medevac but is granted a "reinforcement" revive.

[Dr. Phil Perlmutter]

@Heavy Death
I know that, and I am quite ok with the way how it is, except maybe that I would love the medic task to be a bit more complex, but like I said, that is hardly achievable with that engine in a proper way.
I just responded to the head post of this thread where it was recommended that everyone should be able to revive everyone, on other words more casual, which would take exactly away what I like about PR:
Mistakes and stupid behaviour result in the failure of the whole squad easily, probably even the whole team, so it is necessary to think about the risk and benefit of every step.
Changing the players role as the thread starter asked for would totally change that.
So yeah, I just wanted to express that opinion and express as well that I would not mind some elements to be more complex and challenging, but also that I know that this is hardly possible, if so a lot of effort and as well how much effort the devs have already put into it, which again I do really appreciate.

[Veterans-Gaming]

...as well that I would not mind some elements to be more complex and challenging, but also that I know that this is hardly possible, if so a lot of effort and as well how much effort the devs have already put into it, which again I do really appreciate.

It's not the effort, it's not the possibility, it's that this would not be favorable or playable in the way PR currently runs. The things you listed above are similar to systems in mods of military simulator games like Arma, specifically ACE mod and others. The pace of many game modes in that environment allow for such a slower "evaluate, stabilize, and then treat" medic systems, and also player states of consciousness or responsiveness. Hard to communicate verbally in that when you keep fading in and out of consciousness, trying to call your mates over to your body in tall grass or an urban environment, but very fun for Arma; whereas PR is more in-between at a middle ground of the FPS and MilSim genres.

This is Project Reality. That's why the Squad revive system wouldn't work, and Arma style medic systems would not either.
IMO It's easier to play a game and imagine a Frankenstein Monster of a game from other systems improving the one we are playing than it is to actually implement such changes, because that is often disregarding factors that would vastly change the flow and feel of the current game to a degree that would nearly make it unrecognizable, or would conflict with game limitations or other favorable systems.

[Dr. Phil Perlmutter]

@Veterans-Gaming
I agree to a certain point, but would not go that far making the health system more complex would turn it into a mil sim automatically, that really depends how far and detailed complexity is added.
Let's be honest, a lot is related to engine limitations as carrying bodies for example or as well gun behaviour limitations that would have been certainly implemented if the engine would allow that.
The remarkable thing is though, PR is the best game for me today (in terms of first person shooter), I am not playing anything else in this category anymore, even with these limitations.
It is simply a good mix of fun and teamplay.

[SGT.CHRISTIAN]

Just get a good medic in your squad. I wouldn't want PR's medic system to change, it's good as it is.