2km maps feedback

[InfantryGamer42]

That's interesting. I would be grateful if you could provide some nicknames.

Lol, you sound like you were never in squad whit squad leader that wanted some map to be played.

What we need is admins not listening to anyone and setting alot more votes with no "popular" maps included.

True.

It's very common to see a vote like Fools Road, Kashan, Ulyanovsk and Kashan will win every single time - stop this and maybe we won't be playing 10% of the maps 80% of the time.

Yes and no. Depends on people on server who vote and how interesting and hard map is. And you can see that in this map vote. Kashan offers fun gameplay, while being easiest map to play whit your standard PR teams. You need solid TANK squad and one useful INF squad and you can carry rest of the team to victory. Fools Road on other hand is also fun map whit great gameplay. Problem comes when you have Militia team that does not know how to use assets to there full potential and then you will see those 400-0 rounds, and nobody likes that. Ulyanovsk is pretty much same story, but much much worse for German side.

Asset whores are the meta right now.

It is much more complicated. In my opinion, almost all 4km maps offer better gameplay, while being noob friendlier compared to 2km and 1km counterparts. And this is main reason why 4km are preferred. They do not offer gameplay where your main will be camped by enemy HAT or combat engineer after first 10 minutes passed, they do not offer gameplay where your team will lose both logis at start of the round because some great genius of the squad leader decided that best idea is to rush enemy 2nd flag. And like always, they will die and puff, you lose 50% of logistic capacity for next 5-10 minutes because some people do not understand difference between map whit and without transport helicopters. Inherently, in this state of PR player base, 4km are just better for your standard PR player, because they ask you to know pretty much only standard stuff about PR and gameplay that it offers, without using your brain to think about what you just play.

[Rabbit]

It is much more complicated. In my opinion, almost all 4km maps offer better gameplay, while being noob friendlier compared to 2km and 1km counterparts. And this is main reason why 4km are preferred. They do not offer gameplay where your main will be camped by enemy HAT or combat engineer after first 10 minutes passed, they do not offer gameplay where your team will lose both logis at start of the round because some great genius of the squad leader decided that best idea is to rush enemy 2nd flag. And like always, they will die and puff, you lose 50% of logistic capacity for next 5-10 minutes because some people do not understand difference between map whit and without transport helicopters. Inherently, in this state of PR player base, 4km are just better for your standard PR player, because they ask you to know pretty much only standard stuff about PR and gameplay that it offers, without using your brain to think about what you just play.

I would hardly say they are noob friendly. The only great 4km maps for inf are burger sands and black gold. I also don't understand how you could say a 4km with tanks, jets, helicopters are good for noobs, its very much throwing them into the meat grinder.

Hat base rape is generally more prevalent do to poor design.

[InfantryGamer42]

I would hardly say they are noob friendly. The only great 4km maps for inf are burger sands and black gold.

Thing is it is not about infantry gameplay, but about FOB gameplay and logistic. 4km map offer squad leaders to play more aggressively whit assets they have at there disposal. Best case to explain that is logi truck. On Khamy, if you start on US side, you can spare one logi to go into city and place FOB below bridge, while destroying it. You know that if you get killed while driving there you losing logi is pretty much nothing, because you have more in reserve whit short respawn times and if they all get destroyed you have trans whit 1 crate ready for you anywhere on the map in few minutes.

But, on Ulyanovsk you can not do that, or at least that is most noob thing that you can do. And people do it, because they do not understand importance of the logi on that types of the maps. And when, for instance German side, loses all logis, you lose your ability to place FOBs, you placed 1 maybe 2 FOBs that will get destroyed and effectivly you are in game that is already lost wasting 50 minutes of your life just because some guy did not think trough fully his plan.

I also don't understand how you could say a 4km with tanks, jets, helicopters are good for noobs, its very much throwing them into the meat grinder.

Tanks, jets and helicopters are not great problem on 4km maps because you have a lot of assets to counter them. That is not thing on 2 km map, like Beirut where if one side loses tank, it is pretty much gg, which means that actually 2 km are bigger meat grinder compared to 4km, because you do not have as many assets to counter that tank compared to Khamy for instance.

Hat base rape is generally more prevalent do to poor design.

Yes, that is true, but server admins can fix that trough rules. For instance, servers can forbid mining area between enemy main and first flag, including first flag if it is not in play. Same rule can be applied for HAT and AA kits. It is just not fun gameplay when Russian T-90 comes to your first flag to kill your T-62 on Kozelsk because it is allowed, while your team is attacking Russian first flag. And this is pretty much standard gameplay of 2km maps in PR right now. You either have camping game that leads to all enemy assets being destroyed that further leads to no FOBs for your team that will lead to you spawning main and doing nothing, or team that rushes enemy 2nd flags whit all logis, loses all and spawns main doing nothing for rest of the game or you have good proper game, but only if you have good well balanced teams on both sides. But, problem right now is that first two options happen more often compared to third.

[InfantryGamer42]

Right now playing Ulyanovsk on German side. It took team 7 minutes to build first FOB, leaving 2+ squads in main not able to spawn anywhere else. If they try to leave main, there is enemy APC covering open space. K/D of German team is 0:32. This is pretty much 2km maps gameplay in nutshell.

[Rabbit]

Yeah but Ulyanovsk is one of those shit main bases maps.

[InfantryGamer42]

Yeah but Ulyanovsk is one of those shit main bases maps.

All 2km are shit main bases maps. Thats why gameplay on those maps suffers. If you add logi issues, those maps just play worse compared to 4km maps. In my oppinion thats where reason for popularity of 4km maps comes from. In general, most 2km asset balance needs to be rebalanced to make them better and more competitive to 4km maps.

[Rabbit]

All 2km are shit main bases maps. Thats why gameplay on those maps suffers. If you add logi issues, those maps just play worse compared to 4km maps. In my oppinion thats where reason for popularity of 4km maps comes from. In general, most 2km asset balance needs to be rebalanced to make them better and more competitive to 4km maps.

That's crazy. Granted most of the 2km are older and with gameplay changes they haven't aged well.

Grozny Mil base is solid af.

Iron Ridge has 2 good mains.

Nuijamaa RU main is just fine.

They just need updated main bases
that offer many different path options right away rather than just 1 or 2 choke points.

[InfantryGamer42]

That's crazy. Granted most of the 2km are older and with gameplay changes they haven't aged well.

Yeah, I overstated whit word all, most is better word to explain state of mains on 2km maps. Gameplay changes really hit hard on 2km maps. Currently, 2km maps just do not have proper assets balance for what gameplay PR supports now.

Grozny Mil base is solid af.

Both main bases are solid. That is not problem of Grozny in my opinion. Right now, Militia has to big map pressure on Russian team, as they can jump in there van and destroy all Russian FOBs in less then 10 minutes, while it takes 10 minutes for Russians to drive to the spot and build 1 FOB. This is really big issue on standard and it is probably main reason why most admins run alternative instead as active map area is cut by half effectively stoping deadly Militia map pressure. Easy fix for this issue is giving Russians Mi-17 at standard layout whit longer respawn time (maybe 10 minutes).

Iron Ridge has 2 good mains.

To be honest, right now, Iron Ridge is probably best 2km map in the game. It has good mains and good assets balance and map layout that give out good gameplay.

Nuijamaa RU main is just fine.

True, Nuijamaa is also one of the best 2km maps in game right now.

They just need updated main bases
that offer many different path options right away rather than just 1 or 2 choke points.

There is more. Most 2km maps need to get complete rebalance of the assets on all or some layers that they support. For example, is there really need for BMP-2 vs Puma on Ulyanovsk? No, specially because BMP-2 outperforms Puma hard. Giving each team 1 IFV (whitout ATGM) would work much better. Also number and timing of the logies need rebalance. Or Beirut where APC balance is pretty much no existent, so we have situation that Russian APC squad that know how to use BTR-80 and BRDM-2 can pretty much stop any IDF push alone, bringing the Beirut gameplay probably to closest of WWI mod we will ever get in PR, whit bit of modern flavor.

Right now, only descent 2km maps that are good from gameplay perspective are: Iron Ridge, Goose Green, Grozny (alt layer only), Muttrah, Nuijamaa, Marlin, Falcon and Route E-106, without counting INF layers and INS only 2km maps. And these are most placed maps in votes and most played 2km maps on servers, whit good reason in my oppinion. Other 2km either need rework of the main or rework of the asset balance or even both.

okay okay guys

i think that this is a PR1.6 thread so

True, we should probably make separate tread about state of 2km maps in the game.

Please, can someone say about the Fast Ropes? Will We have it in 1.6?This will change the way we use the choppers. So, please put this in this release

There is video on You tube of it
It will probably come in some of smaller patches of 1.6.

[Rabbit]

Pretty much 2km mains need multiple entry/exit points with rapid exponential growth of routes from those.

[transpilot]

Most servers dont allow to shoot into Dod or rush the first flag in the beginning.

4km maps being noob friendly is the funniest thing ive read the last months.

INF has 5min to deploy on a position and another 5min to be able to do something on 4km maps.
After that you mostly have APC/IFVs overwatching your location.
10min later some tanks you most likely cant kill will frag you.

Once your asset squads lose the fight its rape time because the enemy assets wont play save anymore, they will push any tow location, they will drive next to your squad trying to hide.

Have you ever tried to flank with your INF squad on Bijar, Kashan, Kami, Silent? Doenst work because you have to cross several 100m on open ground.

learn2play INF combat and you will enjoy 2km maps

[BigBigMonkeyMan]

Yeah I don't normally play assets, and never base my vote for a map on trying to get access to any vehicles, so I usually prefer 2km maps because the outcome of the game is not hinged on the performance of vehicle squads but rather the competency of inf squads and squad leaders closely cooperating. A great CAS squad or tank squad on Khami, Kashan, or OP Thunder can save a poorly coordinated team. I am all for teams and squad leaders that don't work together being punished with a loss because team communication is something that makes this game great and should be encouraged.

[InfantryGamer42]

Most servers dont allow to shoot into Dod or rush the first flag in the beginning.

I am not talking about that. I am talking about that one guy that will spend all game placing mines on every exit out of enemy main, or take HAT kit to kill enemy tank after that tank leaves main. Pretty much Beirut in nutshell, but this is constantly practiced tactic on most 2km maps because of main design offer and even support this tactic.

maps being noob friendly is the funniest thing ive read the last months.

I would take that you just do not understand my point.

INF has 5min to deploy on a position and another 5min to be able to do something on 4km maps.

Do not agree whit this at all, at least for most 4km maps, whit maybe Kashan being close to your story. I do not have any issue to deploy on a position in 5 minute of the game or in the 55 minute of the game, specially when you count in information about enemy position that my team knows. If you do not, then there is no right for someone to be mad about getting ambushed on battelfield.

After that you mostly have APC/IFVs overwatching your location.

Maybe only on Kashan, other maps are separate story for themselves. While I can agree that APC/IFVs are probably best assets on 4km maps if you know how to use them, 4km maps compared to 2km give enough assets to effectively counter them in all shapes and forms.

10 min later some tanks you most likely cant kill will frag you.

Again, really simplistic way of looking at tank and asset gameplay in general. On 4km maps tank cant just sit on one spot for long time and frag you whitout you or your team trying to counter him. And that is where all problems start on 4km maps because it is not rear for team not to use assets at there disposal to full potential. 4 km maps give your team assets (ATGM, HAT, engineer, IFV, ATV, CAS, tank) to counter that tank, compared to most 2km maps where tank squads pretty much needs to kill that enemy tank and it it free to do what ever they want, as long as they take extra care of enemy HAT and mines around there main. There is reason why best tank maps are 2km maps.

Once your asset squads lose the fight its rape time because the enemy assets wont play save anymore, they will push any tow location, they will drive next to your squad trying to hide.

And how often happens that your team loses everything whiteout at least causing some loses to enemy? This days pretty much never as most servers now actually balance teams properly. Yes, sometimes one team gets stacked whit better players, but even then it is not like all enemy assets survive fight.

Have you ever tried to flank with your INF squad on Bijar, Kashan, Kami, Silent? Doenst work because you have to cross several 100m on open ground.

Yes, did it many times successfully either on foot or by taking light vehicles whit logi to build two FOBs behind enemy lines or by taking trans choper on risky flank. Did they all worked. Of course not, but it is not like I am as squad leader forced to hold one spot without ability to move.

Khami for instance is great map for pulling flanks in light vehicles and build FOBs behind enemy flag to attack it from different direction, but flanks on foot are not impossible if you do them right.
Problem of Bijar and Silent is that they lack enough light vehicles that would increase mobility of the infantry on those maps.
Kashan on other hand is not map for flanking, but not because of assets, but because of the map design that supports super FOB building and forward pushing. It is not impossible, but you really need to have great team that shares any info that they have to pull it out.

learn2play INF combat and you will enjoy 2km maps

Yeah, because it is easier to "learn2play" broken 2km maps that nobody plays because they heave clear issues instead of fixing them. Nice mate, whit advice like that we can only keep playing same 15 maps and pointing fingers at asset whores, servers, admins, DEVs or who else people want to blame.

Yeah I don't normally play assets, and never base my vote for a map on trying to get access to any vehicles, so I usually prefer 2km maps because the outcome of the game is not hinged on the performance of vehicle squads but rather the competency of inf squads and squad leaders closely cooperating.

You see effectiveness of same infantry squad if you put it on 2km and 4km maps is pretty much same. There effectiveness is directly connected to there competency, not to the size of the map, or if I put it different way, there ability to use assets and resources (crates) that are given to them by there faction on different map. If squad leader knows importance of FOBs in the game, knows how to effectively use logistic trucks and trans chopers, has solid map knowledge, knows how to lead one squad he and his squad will perform same on what ever map you put which ever size.

What actually effects performance of INF squads and there team in general is teambalance (which is server based issue on which game cant do match), amount of assets and resources on map and specifically to 2km maps, main exits design. And these are big issues of 2km maps. Poor teambalance leads to bad squad leaders in general. Bigger amount of assets and resources actually gives better balance overall if done right, as you give your squad leaders more options how to play map in that match and more ways to counter enemy assets. Many 2km maps have bad asset and resource balance, leading to not great gameplay. Bad main exits design is self explained.

A great CAS squad or tank squad on Khami, Kashan, or OP Thunder can save a poorly coordinated team.

Believe me they can not. You team pretty much always has ability to counter CAS or tank squad. Different thing is if your team does not use assets given effectively. Even If bad team has great CAS squad or tank squad, you still need at least one good infantry squad to even try to carry your team. Without that one good infantry squad, you are pretty much useless.

I am all for teams and squad leaders that don't work together being punished with a loss because team communication is something that makes this game great and should be encouraged.

Yes, that is all good and teams should be punished for not communicating. But problem of most 2km maps is that if you do not play right way whit your assets on map you will lose, effectively being punished by map design.

[transpilot]

It doesnt make sense to discuss with simple people but Ill give it 1 more try.

Having played this game for a decade public, tournaments, events, scrims,..... I can tell you as one of the few proper INF SLs that I avoid playing INF on most 4km maps and open assets squads.

On 2km maps you also have asset layouts but you are facing 1-2 heavy assets. Since your teams also has some you can always avoid them. Most 2km maps have also much better terrain for INF (forests, cities, hill formations)

On 4km maps you mostly have 1-3 big compounds where all the INF squads fight surrounded by hills with open area all around. Furthermore you have 5-10 heavy assets spread around the map that will easily spot and shoot any transport asset. FOBs getting long range camped and so on.

I have never heard any other proper INF player saying: 4km maps are so much better to play INF.

And yes a very skilled asset squad can carry a team.

[Rabbit]

I simply think the thing we should focus on is that a lot of main bases suck in 2km maps and need addressing.

[InfantryGamer42]

It doesnt make sense to discuss with simple people but Ill give it 1 more try.

LoL. What does not make sense is to discuss whit guy that does not understand point of this thread. This is not one more thread about 2km vs 4km maps and which is better. This is thread about 2km, how to fix issues they clearly have and improve them, so they appeal to
larger player base, because it is clear from how people vote during map votes, they prefer to play same 2km maps, when 4km does not win vote, again not counting INS maps that are separate story for themselves. But you are constantly pushing into other way, because apparently to you, all 2km maps are greatest thing PR offers and that playerbase is just bunch of noobs that are not able to acknowledge there greatest and they just want to play same well known maps because noobs... No, I shared similar opinion for long time, but I shake it off as it is deeply wrong. Reason 2km maps are not played as they should is result of main design and not proper asset balance, which result in much worse gameplay that 2km maps support. And they all have great potential, but they need main redesigns and new asset balance to make them appealing again.

Having played this game for a decade public, tournaments, events, scrims,..... I can tell you as one of the few proper INF SLs that I avoid playing INF on most 4km maps and open assets squads.

Your loss. Not my problem that it is hard for you to play as infantry on 4km because of some issue that great squad leader as you claim should be able to deal whit.

On 2km maps you also have asset layouts but you are facing 1-2 heavy assets.

And that is why pretty much all 2km maps are best tank maps we have in game. Because you just need to kill tank, preferably by camping enemy main whit HAT or combat engineer whit mines and you can put your brain on autopilot farming infantry around map whit no counters.

Since your teams also has some you can always avoid them.

Only way to avoid tank on 2km map is to destroy it. And 2km do not offer enough assets to do that, except camping enemy main.

Most 2km maps have also much better terrain for INF (forests, cities, hill formations)

Most 2km maps have also much better terrain for INF (forests, cities, hill formations)

Can not agree whit that. Map design is same, only difference is distance that you need to go from A to B flag.

On 4km maps you mostly have 1-3 big compounds where all the INF squads fight surrounded by hills with open area all around.

And you are still pushing same desert 4km maps, like we do not have other 4km maps, that are really good for all parties. And even on those "3 compound maps" you can still pull flank.

Furthermore you have 5-10 heavy assets spread around the map that will easily spot and shoot any transport asset.

You are talking like two completely different games are playing in same time on same map, when both INF and assets are playing for objectives, and they will concentrate around two active flags. And If you have good information about enemy positions and good plan you will be able to flank enemy whit trans, jeep or any other vehicle that can hold passengers. But If you do not have good information, I do not see what is problem in getting ambushed, as long as it is not in front or near main.

FOBs getting long range camped and so on.

So when enemy MG gunner is long range camping FOB that is good, but when asset is doing that that is bad? Nice double standards.

I have never heard any other proper INF player saying: 4km maps are so much better to play INF.

And I am not claiming that. I am claiming that 4km maps offer better and more balanced gameplay for all roles that PR supports, as long as we suppose that we are talking about two balanced teams.

And yes a very skilled asset squad can carry a team.

Only if enemy team is heavily unbalanced in favor of friendly team. If we have two balanced teams ability of asset squad to carry is much smaller.

I simply think the thing we should focus on is that a lot of main bases suck in 2km maps and need addressing.

I do not think that is only issue whit them. Some 2km maps need some changes in asset balance.

[transpilot]

LoL. What does not make sense is to discuss whit guy that does not understand point of this thread. This is not one more thread about 2km vs 4km maps and which is better. This is thread about 2km, how to fix issues they clearly have and improve them, so they appeal to
larger player base, because it is clear from how people vote during map votes, they prefer to play same 2km maps, when 4km does not win vote, again not counting INS maps that are separate story for themselves. But you are constantly pushing into other way, because apparently to you, all 2km maps are greatest thing PR offers and that playerbase is just bunch of noobs that are not able to acknowledge there greatest and they just want to play same well known maps because noobs... No, I shared similar opinion for long time, but I shake it off as it is deeply wrong. Reason 2km maps are not played as they should is result of main design and not proper asset balance, which result in much worse gameplay that 2km maps support. And they all have great potential, but they need main redesigns and new asset balance to make them appealing again.



Your loss. Not my problem that it is hard for you to play as infantry on 4km because of some issue that great squad leader as you claim should be able to deal whit.



And that is why pretty much all 2km maps are best tank maps we have in game. Because you just need to kill tank, preferably by camping enemy main whit HAT or combat engineer whit mines and you can put your brain on autopilot farming infantry around map whit no counters.



Only way to avoid tank on 2km map is to destroy it. And 2km do not offer enough assets to do that, except camping enemy main.






Can not agree whit that. Map design is same, only difference is distance that you need to go from A to B flag.



And you are still pushing same desert 4km maps, like we do not have other 4km maps, that are really good for all parties. And even on those "3 compound maps" you can still pull flank.



You are talking like two completely different games are playing in same time on same map, when both INF and assets are playing for objectives, and they will concentrate around two active flags. And If you have good information about enemy positions and good plan you will be able to flank enemy whit trans, jeep or any other vehicle that can hold passengers. But If you do not have good information, I do not see what is problem in getting ambushed, as long as it is not in front or near main.



So when enemy MG gunner is long range camping FOB that is good, but when asset is doing that that is bad? Nice double standards.



And I am not claiming that. I am claiming that 4km maps offer better and more balanced gameplay for all roles that PR supports, as long as we suppose that we are talking about two balanced teams.



Only if enemy team is heavily unbalanced in favor of friendly team. If we have two balanced teams ability of asset squad to carry is much smaller.



I do not think that is only issue whit them. Some 2km maps need some changes in asset balance.

ok bratan