Remove the engineer.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-12-15 18:33

IRL do you see tank crews getting out of their tanks to clear a mine field???

No? They call in the engineers??

hmmmm

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-12-15 18:34

I have been suggesting an idea for ages:

Keep the engi BUT his spanner only repairs jeeps and other light vehicles.

A repair vehicle is added on all mpas that have 2 or more Heavy vehicles (MTB, IVF, APC). This would rearm, repare them. It would have a crew of 2 - driver and gunner. The gunner would man a machine gunn and possibly some form of curser to aim at vehicles that needed repairing. An explample of such a vehicle is:
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/ese/ese_arrv.htm
THis vehicle would be healivy armoured therefore able to operate on the front line (large, many threats).

This would, in my opp, be the perfect balance between fun and realism.

On top of this, a small truck, like the present on in game, could also repair and rearm light vehicles but no heavy - engi cannot rearm.
This combined with DECENT JEEPS that have MORE ARMOUR and LONGER SPWN TIMES would make such a (present repair) vehcile VITAL for continue use of transport jeeps = 2 things make people tkae more care with jeep, at present they spend more time as smouldering wrecks that move objects, even though can not rpair tanks!!!!!!

EDIT (thks V3NON): THE "repair" vehicle would also remove mines.
And The places where TAnks SPWN would have a repair building next to them - that rearm aswell.

I total AGREE WITH BELOW, i also dont know whether wrenches should repair bridges or not. BUT IF they could not IT would force people to take totaly different routs - something at present players do not do enough (flank - big and small flanks).
Possibly when combined with V3NON idea of it taking more explosives to destroy a bridge, the removal of bridge repair from wrench would be good.
More precisely: double or more the explosive the average engi carrier (therefore require relode).

V3N0N_br · Post by **V3N0N_br** » 2006-12-15 18:43

I agree with Top_Cat in wrenches still being used to repair light jeeps.

The best thing PR could do IMO is adding the repair stations, as the only repair method for the tank, and also increasing they're power

Also, engineers are useful for disabling mines and repairing the gate with their wrench.

I think a sensible question is the use of Wrench on bridges. I really can't tell if it should be removed.
If it is, it'll obviously be much more realistic, but it might completely unbalance and destroy gameplay.

Maybe, taking more than 2 or 3 C4s to destroy the bridge, and about 3mins non-stop to repair it? lol, it's gonna be the same as not being able to repair it ehehe

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2006-12-15 18:47

so how about as a compromise

combat engineer can repair light vehicles and defuse mines ONLY

tanker can repair all vehicles

repair vehicle necessary to repair bridges, assets and other destructable models

Guerra norte · Post by **Guerra norte** » 2006-12-15 18:54

$kelet0r wrote:so how about as a compromise

#1. "combat engineer can repair light vehicles and defuse mines ONLY" Hmm okay

#2. "tanker can repair all vehicles" How about if the tanker can only fix tanks, the tracks and say 10% armour, but he has to return to a repairing station to fix the armour a 100%

#3. "repair vehicle necessary to repair bridges, assets and other destructable models" Ok.

Hfett · Post by **Hfett** » 2006-12-15 19:06

Wrencehs should be with the engenier to remove mines and fix things(not vehicle)

Vehicles should return to main base where there should be a repair station (or go near the repair humvee)

Post by **Mongolian_dude** » 2006-12-15 19:18

Keep engineer.
However, i like the repair station idea.
Make his wrench not apply to any viechle bigger than a Jeep.
However, bridges , walls and anything destructable should be able to be repaired.
A problem with the wrench at the moment(Mainly on operation ghost train) is that, while you are repairing them, bridges tend to explode, killing the egineer or engineers(i have tried the bridge with 3 engineers at once. so far and no luck) attempting to repair it.

Somehow though, bridges should take LONG to repair. about 5 mins. BUT, They should be harder to destroy, like some of the BIG ones(not the wooden ones). This is more real as it would require more than one engineer to repair that bridge. (Maybe like 5)

Combat shotgun needs a cross hair (only when zoomed should it show up).
The Slugs fiered from the shot gun need to be one hit kill, but less accurate. The MEC engineer needs to be very inaccurate to make up for semi-auto.

I do agree that INSURGENTS should have a sabotour. He should come with a wrench, but works the same as the other Engineers' wrneches. However, the Insurgents should not have a repair station. OR it should be half as effective of that of the MEC, USMC,PLA, GB.

Abviously, Armours 'armour' would need to be improved. Engineer should carry something extra though....It seems a bit...bare. Like the Graplin hook in Hills of hym? (i know its not VERY realistic, but its possible).

Wrench should still be able to disarm claymores and ATMs. I Also think thy should be able to disarm other things. Like SLAM charges, C4, Insurgent crappy C4 composite and any other layed explosive.

Only the Engineer should have the NEAR BY EXPLOSIVE signature that appears when you are near a mine or explosive of some kind. He would be the bloke with the Mine detector.

...mongol...

Guerra norte · Post by **Guerra norte** » 2006-12-15 19:30

How about:
Saboteur/Demilitions expert: Ability to plant/dissable mines and explosives.

Engineer: Fixes stuff like bridges, barriers etc.

Tanker: Can only repair tanks, tanktracks and 10% armour but must return to repairingstation for 100% armour fix.

Mechanic: Can repair all light vehicles 100%, but has only same ability as tanker on heavy vehicles(tank,APC,BMP and AA).

Post by **Mongolian_dude** » 2006-12-15 19:32

Guerra norte wrote:How about:
Saboteur/Demilition expert: Ability to plant/dissable mines and explosives.

Engineer: Fixes stuff like bridges, barries etc.

Tanker: Can only repair tanks, tanktracks and 10% armour but must return to repairingstation for 100% armour fix.

Mechanic: Can repair all light vehicles 100%, but has only same ability as tanker on heavy vehicles(tank,APC,BMP and AA).

Simply too many classes. is there enough space to request all them?!?

...mongol...

Guerra norte · Post by **Guerra norte** » 2006-12-15 19:40

Mongolian_dude wrote:Simply too many classes. is there enough space to request all them?!?

...mongol...

In vanilla there are seven kits with two unlocks each right?
That makes a total of 21 kits.

Valtasar · Post by **Valtasar** » 2006-12-15 19:54

Guerra norte wrote:How about:
Saboteur/Demilitions expert: Ability to plant/dissable mines and explosives.

Engineer: Fixes stuff like bridges, barries etc.

Tanker: Can only repair tanks, tanktracks and 10% armour but must return to repairingstation for 100% armour fix.

Mechanic: Can repair all light vehicles 100%, but has only same ability as tanker on heavy vehicles(tank,APC,BMP and AA).

This will be the best IMO.

Simply too many classes. is there enough space to request all them?!?

Yeah it's maybe to much

WesleyS · Post by **WesleyS** » 2006-12-15 19:59

as long as a tanker class can repair a blown wheel or track and get it out of harms way, unless they are killed of course.
Engy should get more C4 or mines if you take their spanner IMO.

V3N0N_br · Post by **V3N0N_br** » 2006-12-15 20:06

WesleyS wrote:as long as a tanker class can repair a blown wheel or track and get it out of harms way, unless they are killed of course.
Engy should get more C4 or mines if you take their spanner IMO.

good point. I think only 1 C4 makes it almost an unplayed class. Not that it should be, but sometimes people will even forget it, since the main reason they use the c. engineer is the wrench.

{XG} non_compliance · Post by **{XG} non_compliance** » 2006-12-15 20:25

Let's just remove the tanks...

Lucid Nightmare · Post by **Lucid Nightmare** » 2006-12-15 20:43

Keep the wrench. Keep it's magical abilities. It's there to simulate the actions that were too intensive to put in.
See, the thing is, with the BF2 engine, tanks/vehicles have health. In reality, this is not the case. A round will either penetrate to a degree or it will not.
The engine is too **** to have penetration so we are stuck with health. The wrench is there to balance.

If you find that a tank keeps killing you, the obvious thing to do would be to keep your head down and use the sound it makes to determine if it is safe to move or not. But instead what I see is people throwing grenades at the tank. I mean, seriously, grenades? All that's going to do is let the tank know you are there....

For those that have a problem with 'combat repairs', wait until the tanker kit comes out. As has been mentioned, it repairs at a much slower rate so it should make such actions difficult, if not impossible.

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2006-12-15 22:08

in PR can there be multiple kits for each class though? is that function not allowed to work?

if it was open to use, you could have engineer, repair tech, sabotage guy

Mind you, we have the guy with rifle and clays. If he was given two clays and an explosive or two then we solve the issue of an explosives tech. could even remove the explosives from the engineer totally, to make him support specialist, although would he then need bodyarmour?

[DVB] TRIggS · Post by **[DVB] TRIggS** » 2006-12-15 22:43

if i ever play engineer its for the sagia or to help out my squad. If i have the US or CH shotgun i know i have no way to defend myself and keep out the wrench till i die.

Lucid Nightmare · Post by **Lucid Nightmare** » 2006-12-15 23:05

Yeah, the shotty really needs to be a one hit kill with the spread shot. Cause even though the enemy may be wearing body armour, at that range they're gonna get thrown off their feet from the force and will be winded, so they'll be as good as dead anyway.

SGT.Collado · Post by **SGT.Collado** » 2006-12-16 00:13

My suggestion is to remove the wrench and have a repairing station in the main base.

darkhead · Post by **darkhead** » 2006-12-16 00:53

that gives me a good idea lucid nightmare, if you use the coughing/blurry animation when you get shot like that at close range for only a short time that will simulate that almost perfectly would it?

add it for all guns at close range though and definetly recheck the weapon damge, i get too many 3+ shot headshots with sniper rifles and other weapons that would normally be a 1 hit kill (every gun?... maybe not possible in the engine without making it a 1 hit kill almost anywhere on the body.)