Khamisiyah Balance

[WingWalker]

I hate getting into the whole balance talk on maps, but this map needs something changed..

...the MEC is almost always pinned back to Al Khidihr.

A few MECs make it too Chem weapons/Bunker, but they almost never seem to get any traction.

The U.S. seems to have no problem keeping/taking all but 2 flags.

Both sides here have generally the same load outs, but it seems like the U.S. is always more able to get in place and not be able to be moved at all the whole round on Kham, while MEC seemed pinned to the north by Armor, APCs, and CAS.

Maybe all flags should be grey at first, maybe U.S. trans or cas should be more limited. Maybe its just my experiences?

I do know it gets impossible to set up a FOB when anytime you drive CAS just swoops by takes you out no matter where you go.

[InfantryGamer42]

I hate getting into the whole balance talk on maps, but this map needs something changed..

I would say this is a harder layer on map to play.

...the MEC is almost always pinned back to Al Khidihr

That is what you should actually do at beginning, considering you just cant push Chem/Bunker in first 10 minutes. Holding and fortifying Al Khidihr is relatively easy job. One FOB should be built on north side of river, while you can position at least 2 FOBs inside city. If you can hold off US outside city, you can hold it, and that is what most of MEC team should do in first minutes of game.

A few MECs make it too Chem weapons/Bunker, but they almost never seem to get any traction.

Biggest mistake most MEC team do is push for Chem/Bunkers at beginning. You just cant compete whit 3 AA guns, rally points and logi truck, meaning that US team always has enough firepower and spawns to hold those two flags for first 5 minutes, whit possible 2 FOBs build in same timespan. That is why US can keep those two flags whit 1 squad. Moment when MEC can actually push is after those first 5/10 minutes, when you have some asset in firesupport role (if they are alive).

Both sides here have generally the same load outs, but it seems like the U.S. is always more able to get in place and not be able to be moved at all the whole round on Kham, while MEC seemed pinned to the north by Armor, APCs, and CAS.

I think that is a problem here. MEC should have some load out advantage at beginning of game. Giving them unrespawnable tank (T-62?) could give them more options, while giving US side TOW Humwve at start to compensate. AA guns should also be given to MEC on North Shore and some buildings in city as defense against possible trans rush from US side. Maybe give one more rally whit logi on North Shore for MEC side can help and give more options for MEC.

Maybe all flags should be grey at first, maybe U.S. trans or cas should be more limited. Maybe its just my experiences?

Precapped flags and US trans and CAS are not big issues here (maybe trans rush by US for Al Khidir is, but not many people do it). Issue here is that US has positional advantage while MEC does not have any load out advantage at beginning to compensate. That effectively forces MEC to play first 10 minutes perfectly (as I explained before) or stay pinned in Al Khidir until end of the game.

[WingWalker]

MEC should have some load out advantage at beginning of game. Giving them unrespawnable tank (T-62?) could give them more options, while giving US side TOW Humwve at start to compensate. AA guns should also be given to MEC on North Shore and some buildings in city as defense against possible trans rush from US side. Maybe give one more rally whit logi on North Shore for MEC side can help and give more options for MEC.

Yeah, I think this would sway the balance back too.


Once the U.S. gets North, their CAS, Armor, AA, and APC's really only need to cover the small area North and North West of Chem Weapons, on a big 4K Map.


MEC has to move out into the wide open desert with no cover to get anywhere with all that sitting on them.


MEC air and ground trans is rendered useless, they become just big targets waiting to be blown up.

[sweedensniiperr]

It's the river. MEC is boxed in 1/4 of the map with a few crossing for armor. US main can spread out easily in the desert. Not only that US main is located in the middle of the map while MEC is in the corner.

[CAS_ual_TY]

It's the river. MEC is boxed in 1/4 of the map with a few crossing for armor. US main can spread out easily in the desert. Not only that US main is located in the middle of the map while MEC is in the corner.

this + the fact that a MEC attack on bunkers from the north is incredibily risky as any TOW in the bunker area can see that elevated area. You can only rly attack from the west / north-west.

US also seems to have a better entry into Chem Weapons, but thats maybe up to subjective opinion.

Tanks are the game changer once CAS has been taken out. But even good CAS pilots arent reliable right now due to broken AA.

Imo MEC mainly fails due to incompetent SLs and being unorganized. If MEC can get a grip they can hold the city and make pushes into bunkers after Tank battle.

[Mats391]

Sounds like the easiest solution would be to have US attack on every layer or at least have a meeting engagement w/o precapped bunkers

[WingWalker]

It's the river.

This is true. Once pinned back the MEC is bottlenecked with every U.S. asset between them and the next objective.

Sounds like the easiest solution would be to have US attack on every layer or at least have a meeting engagement w/o precapped bunkers

I don't know, the other layers have alternative flag balances. Maybe only one layer is played all the time, I don't keep track, but all this has been my experience with this map nearly every time I've been on it.

If the problem is with one layer, I really don't understand why there would be a preference for precapped flags anyway.

For instance the Alt layer the U.S. starts with all flags precapped, and has all assets to hammer the MEC into place. Maybe just have those layers with the team with precaps have longer than 20min asset times?

[InfantryGamer42]

Sounds like the easiest solution would be to have US attack on every layer or at least have a meeting engagement w/o precapped bunkers

It would probably be. But, why delete interesting different layer whiteout trying to fix it at least. I would suggest another rally whit logi on North Shore, as that would allow MEC team to place FOBs inside city and place FOB on western side of Bunkers/Chem in same time. I would also suggest thinking about giving MEC T-62 or T-72M at start, whiteout respawn, while giving US TOW Humwve to offset it and maybe 1 more logi and deployed TOW on bunkers. This way, both side would get more options, while giving MEC aggressive edge at beginning to overcome positional advantage of US team.

this + the fact that a MEC attack on bunkers from the north is incredibily risky as any TOW in the bunker area can see that elevated area. You can only rly attack from the west / north-west.

Attack from the west, while fastest way, is hard to pull out because: 1. AA guns effectively create no fly zone in the area, 2. taking logi from main takes time, 3. taking logi from Al Khidir can seriously undermine defense of it. Attack from the east (Pit) is imo more successful, but it takes over 10 minutes to get there, build FOB and start attack at best.

[Outlawz7]

Can everyone at least confirm which layer you all have in mind, considering there's three different ones?

Sounds like the easiest solution would be to have US attack on every layer or at least have a meeting engagement w/o precapped bunkers

Or you know, play Std/Lrg instead of Alt.

[UncleSmek]

Can everyone at least confirm which layer you all have in mind, considering there's three different ones?



Or you know, play Std/Lrg instead of Alt.

Nope, assets are best in Alt.

Mats solution is a good one. Fix Alt layer by having no pre capped flags.

Also remove the 2 flags at a same time dynamic. It doesnt promote any nice variation.

[Mats391]

Another idea would be to keep the USA defending / MEC counter attack setting, but change what is available in the bunkers from the start: No static AA, replace logis with transport trucks, maybe some Humvees. That way MEC would have way easier time attacking the bunkers as it no longer becomes instant TOW/AA death trap

[WingWalker]

Maybe just adjusting the mobility of the side that is most advanced on the map.

The different layers have different flags capped, if the U.S. has all flags capped accept Al Khidihr, then maybe their mobility should be cut down a bit.

If its the version where MEC has all flags capped, then theirs can be reduced instead.

By mobility reduced, I mean things like how many vehicles or helos they have for trans.

[InfantryGamer42]

Mobility is really not issue. Positional advantege supported by AA guns effectively boxes MEC in NW courner of map, giving them few options to attack bunkers/chem in first 10/15 minutes. On other layer, where MEC has bunkers, they really cant box in US.

[Outlawz7]

Delayed APCs for defending team, so attacker team APCs can focus on AA guns/attacking bunkers.

[WingWalker]

Bump....

Played Alt on a server and in the 1st 15mins the MEC was pinned back to Al Khidihr.

Seems to still be most matches pinned back to Al Khidihr with no way to get break it, in v1.7.1 still. Maybe just me, but looking at past matches it seems to be regular.

I don't get the game play, the map is awesome.