Defense, the detriment to Teamwork?

[Brotherscompany]

I have been thinking about this one for a while for now. Is AREA DEFENSE
(like a flag, village or cache) one of the things that detriments teamwork in PR compared to attacking or holding a specif building like a T-Shape?

Here is my logic: if you are defending unless you have some relationship with your SQ members most likely you arent going to assign them specific positions to cover, you are just going to tell them to defend that location and hope everyone stays around it.
Meanwhile you might have some people starting wandering off a bit out of position, some will end up pushing enemies in case they see them looking for some action that they have been waiting for so long.

In this situation more often than not you cant kinda coordinate and maintain cohesion like if you are all attacking or defending 1 single building, in defending a area it just becomes a bunch of call outs and individual soldiers acting alone.
Think about Insurgency once it comes to Cache defense this one of the things that its seen most of the times people end up getting bored and its just them acting on their own.


I started this discussion mostly because Im bored and had this idea back in my head for a while now, not saying defense is bad or anything just pointing out some things that I have seen repeat themselves over time.

EDIT: ADDED A T IN CANT, GAVE A DIFFERENT IDEIA TO THE ONE I WANTED TO TRANSMIT

[ismaelassassin]

All these points you’ve mentioned is also exactly why attacking is the superior choice. Defending only works on small areas and when you know where the enemy could come from. If you have to guard 360 you are in the disadvantage

[UncleSmek]

Your lack of map knowledge limits your capacity to see dimensions of defense beyond small buildings or closed structures.

God forbid you actually use the terrain..

[Frontliner]

I don't think you're wrong in your analysis per se - especially if you are in charge of a lackluster squad to begin with -, but I wouldn't go as far as seeing it as only detrimental to the game experience. Caps that cover an area as opposed to a single bunker or a relatively small, confined area just require a different approach from you, as SL, to tackle it. When in a forest, eg., there is, for one thing, a lot of smaller pieces of cover and/or concealment for you to use, the other is the correct reading of the map and anticipation of enemy manoeuvres to make use of these defensive features before the enemy can use them. And while that applies to defense vs. offense discussion in general, keep in mind that if you can't make use of an area's natural or "anthropian" defenses you can either make your own through emplacements - terrible idea in practise, as far as I'm concerned - or be mobile yourself so the enemy doesn't have a position to zero his forces in on. And additionally, if you think(or know) you can't hold a position with what you've been given, you should always resort to asking a second squad to stick in the area and help with the defense effort.

[rogdozz]

All these points you’ve mentioned is also exactly why attacking is the superior choice. Defending only works on small areas and when you know where the enemy could come from. If you have to guard 360 you are in the disadvantage

Nonsense. When defending the enemy has to come to you and get you off the flag, so you can just pick a building or underground area to defend and as long as you can hold it, you hold the flag. You pick your small area

[Cpt.Future]

I agree that it's way easier to keep your squad together when inside a building. Especially because there's often just one staircase that you need to cover to keep the defense from falling apart. And you can assign the more patient players in your squad to hold it, while the ADHD boys can run around inside the building and look out the windows.

When it comes to flags inside a forest without structures, the best way to defend is usually to find a spot where you only have one main direction to worry about. It should be difficult to flank and there should be as much open ground between you and the attacking enemy as possible.
... But if that's not possible, it makes more sense to stay mobile, just like Frontliner already said. In that case you should have some wiggle room to fall back or flank the enemy yourself, because as soon as you've killed the first enemy there will be grenades flying in your direction. Just shoot and scoot.

if you are defending unless you have some relationship with your SQ members most likely you arent going to assign them specific positions to cover, you are just going to tell them to defend that location and hope everyone stays around it.
Meanwhile you might have some people starting wandering off a bit out of position

For me it's the other way around: If you don't know the other players very well, it makes sense to assign them certain positions, but when I'm playing with veteran players I know, I won't micro manage them. It doesn't make sense to force them in a position and not let them adjust to the situation.

some will end up pushing enemies in case they see them looking for some action that they have been waiting for so long.

There's nothing you can do about that, except to join a clan and to avoid playing with random people. Chasing kills like that ironically doesn't get you a lot of kills in this game and some players still need to learn that.

[Grump/Gump.45]

I agree that it's way easier to keep your squad together when inside a building.

Come on man.. Do the jingle with me. You can just put your guys in a box and say "stay here" like they are dogs or you can do. "1 man per piece of cover, move cover to cover, stay in view of each other to save each other. Minimum explosive spread of the grenade(you can set this to any weapon spread you want). Camouflage up, police up each others exposure, tell somebody if they are exposed. You want to be in view of each other but invisible to each other.

The unit is a walking booby trap with activated awareness by sight, sound, extrapolation or intuition of the enemies awareness. I program the minds of these bio-mechanical machines we call men how to look around to "Scan aggressively, 3 seconds each direction, shoot any suspicious dot you see peeking, blink one eye at a time, miss no target opportunity". I program their software.

Remember we are all the same without the body, all the same energy. Quick side note, one way i started to practice using this energy physically is look at where somebody else is looking, know what environment exactly looks like around you. See what they see. Try it in game and real life. Have faith and focus, it cannot help you if you cannot believe it or trust the feeling of intuition you get from it. So show yourself you can physically know what they are looking at. If you cant trust the intuition of feeling your enemy going to throw a grenade you cannot use the intuition to save you.

Its not about God or the energy of life we are that it gives punishing you for not believing in it. Its just natural if you dont trust or believe it, those very thoughts and feelings block use of energy. Those thoughts of doubt is negative energy. Since i call the good energy God, guess you can call negative energy the devil, negative waves man, it doesn't want you to believe in God or yourself for who you are which is not the body.

I know i have felt my enemy wanting to throw grenade, hide or advance, lots of options go through their feelings fast clouding the energy you need to feel. But once they commit to their choice you can feel it. When i search for enemy i scared into hiding, I feel he is trying to hide. I feel his fear, pre-fire possible hiding holes i feel their fear and anxiety increase but not in relation to location unless they are right there just out of view. Before the thought comes into your mind in words "I must throw a grenade" what is the feeling of those words in the raw energy? Energy is a language, there probably is an alien race out there that can telepathically communicate strong than i describe here. Maybe this is how we evolve it through our awareness of it. Over generations it could get stronger as it is a energetic electrical signal process traveling through neurotransmitters that evolve themselves over generations.

Negative energy doesn't want you to use this stuff in the life of the body, where it can possess the body as who you are possessing your body. If you dont know who you are without the body then "demons", negative energy or the thought of them will make you scared. But if you know you are also energy, stronger than them you cannot be scared. Its why there is so much evil in the world, thats why it happens. Trauma, intoxicating substances, other people afflicted by negative energy not being good to others weakens the mind for negative energy to take over and is the challenge.

Its all feels and happens in physical at first, but awareness of the energy we are allows you to use it. If you see in your mind the image friendly is looking at when you look at which way they are looking, you doing it right. Now you must look away from them and trust you are still seeing what they look at even if picture not clear tree for tree. I have had enemies flash before my mind.

Then you just look away from them and know where they are looking still as they scan around, im to the point I see a flash of the enemy they see. We are bio-mechanical machines, like computers and are interconnected by this energy that gives us life communicating through language, body and energy. Body is the hardware, energy is the software. Im to the point where my closest PR friends i have bonded with, i hear gunshots and know that my one close friend out of 7 squad members is the one being shot at because of this practice.

FREEZE means grab cover, camouflage, dont move, dont make any footsteps or futz around with gear. Listen for footsteps outside the position and approximately how many footsteps you hear.

In urban settings with buildings its the same without camouflage, but there are urban camouflage methods like Sbeneh trash on ground you can hide body in, shooting under vehicles/trailers/loop holes/beds. In urban setting its Omaha concept of having too many boats or men to shoot to keep everyone alive. Its like when periodical cicadas come out, survival by overwhelming numbers to kill. This is why attacking with a single squad wont work unless cap is done stealthily avoiding contact. Many times you can just outcap enemies without fighting them then kill them once its neutral or capped, avoiding combat keeps men alive to have more numbers than them. Kill only a few as needed or as easy as they come with minimal shooting. It gets outnumbered quickly otherwise and the numbers you have dictates the stance you must take. Low numbers is guerilla warfare, hit and run.

But not on a beach, its in view of each other using bullets where there is no cover to back enemy off with pre-fire, suppression and other methods. This is the "random" shooting you see in combat footage. Its shooting something suspicious that looks like its human peeking over cover to aim, shooting sound of enemy gunshot location, bush rustling, dust kick up. Its like when periodical cicadas come out, survival by overwhelming numbers to kill.

I give so much orders that work together, its basically describing instructions how you would need to teach civilians the discipline of surviving. A building in the end everyone is cornered and some low angles cant be seen at all, other angles put you at great risk. Its like the arcade game whack-a-mole, where the mole pops out of the hole when you are in a building. Every interior piece of the building can be hit with explosive. I hate buildings, if we had 100% destructible environments you would too.

[Frontliner]

Nonsense. When defending the enemy has to come to you and get you off the flag, so you can just pick a building or underground area to defend and as long as you can hold it, you hold the flag.

That's wrong and since most SLs don't realize it I'll have to ask to indulge me for a second here:
The moment the opposition outnumbers you in "alive" players in the capzone, the flag push starts.
It doesn't matter if you have a superior position.
It doesn't matter if you can nurse back your fallen safely.
It doesn't matter if the enemy cannot push you out of that little "impenetrable" corner you've put yourself in.

Wanna make a wager how often I've known - by just looking at our half-dead defending squad - that the enemy was getting the upper hand in the cap game? How often do you think the Def SL was completely silent in SL comms and our team's notification of an enemy assault was the game's voice-over announcer notifying the team of the flag being neutral'd?

Edit: Gump, don't do my man CptFuture dirty like that, he's better at this game than you even after getting shitfaced at the local titty bar.

[UncleSmek]

Most buildings in PR is easily countered by a grenadier who knows where to put his grenades. If you are up against good players it doesnt really do much difference cause even if you decide to defend a building you are sitting ducks without counter movements on the outside.

So the best defense is putting 1 squad in a building to hold flag while another one is on the offensive within the defensive flag.

If you only have one squad defending you are better splitting the squad up so half is holding inside while the other is doing counter on the outside.

[LimitJK]

The moment the opposition outnumbers you in "alive" players in the capzone, the flag push starts.

read the manual bruv

Overall you are right though, even good positions get overwhelmed eventually when your reinforcement (FOB) is cut of and your guys get whittled down by normal inevitable attrition.
The only reason to stick to one building is when its a vastly superior position or the only structure on open ground (eg aircraft bunker on saaremaa).

In area defense of broken up terrain (forest) only veteran squads can spread, as everyone can hold his own and has the necessary situational awareness to react to incursion. this maximises the angles to engage enemies from at the cost of resilience.
Average squads are better off sticking together on key terrain or slowly roaming as a blob through the cap.
It should always be priority to destroy enemy attack FOBs and keep yours alive as there is a component of attrition to defense. So briefly venturing out of cap to destroy enemy FOBs can be adviseable, especially if they just deployed (you saw the chopper land/crate drop) to destroy them before they can unfold.

To save manpower the defending squads should be as small as possible but as big as necessary, ideally a small tripwire force in cap and a full squad in the more active role.

[Grump/Gump.45]

https://www.realitymod.com/manual/en/game_modes.html#advance-and-secure


It should always be priority to destroy enemy attack FOBs and keep yours alive as there is a component of attrition to defense. So briefly venturing out of cap to destroy enemy FOBs can be adviseable, especially if they just deployed (you saw the chopper land/crate drop) to destroy them before they can unfold.

I feel like the context in your mind is always one squad defends, which for easy capping on attack i agree with but its not so simple. There are steps and assessments to make, like one extra squad should pass through defense cap in the least when coming from a rear FOB. Another thing is our FOBs should be somewhat in direct line of the rear for the flags but not to be predictable. If a FOB is not in a connect the dot path like i saw in the Kuesarre, radio relay and airfield caps on Saaremaa. We were steam rolling but this one squad was at a FOB far south of objective and for us to win they needed to deviate 2 different travel directions. One to the back capped flag then 2nd to move up.

I have seen squads venture off to remove one known FOB while enemy moves in from another direction and unknown FOB. The distance of the FOB matters, anything less than 600 meters needs to be removed cause the time of enemy travel provides constant attack. For larger maps with bigger distances between cap zones all forces should pass through the defense cap on their way to attack to provide a barrier while they fight their way to cap. It depends how attacks go for enemy, some just try to move in dumb spots without thinking getting them shot. When they could shoot and move.

[LimitJK]

Dude, good post. Clear and concise.

I mostly agree with you, having 2 squads in the area is often necessary, but focus (as a team) should be always on the attack (unless circumstances like assets etc dont allow for it).
One squad holds (doesnt have to be full), one squad roams.

Regarding your second paragraph, forcing all squads to push through the defense objective i disagree with.
There is usually too many directions the enemy could come from so tying up 8+ people for +10min with a dubious utility for the defense is a waste of time.

And thats what defense is all about. On most objectives defense will never hold forever, so its all about buying time for the attack.
Any squad hanging back have to be brought into the attack as fast as possible, be it heli or otherwise, to use that time window efficiently.

[Grump/Gump.45]

Dude, good post. Clear and concise.

I mostly agree with you, having 2 squads in the area is often necessary, but focus (as a team) should be always on the attack (unless circumstances like assets etc dont allow for it).
One squad holds (doesnt have to be full), one squad roams.

Regarding your second paragraph, forcing all squads to push through the defense objective i disagree with.
There is usually too many directions the enemy could come from so tying up 8+ people for +10min with a dubious utility for the defense is a waste of time.

And thats what defense is all about. On most objectives defense will never hold forever, so its all about buying time for the attack.
Any squad hanging back have to be brought into the attack as fast as possible, be it heli or otherwise, to use that time window efficiently.

I just need a 2nd squad to pass on through and if they dont intercept any attackers they are free to move naturally. "Free to move" or "What dictates a situation" has no reference to my requests or orders, just the nature of situation. The people in the squad are looking for a fight anyways, but sometimes fighting while traveling can cut into time be used traveling to objective, enemies can be ignored at times or even left occupied with distracted attention.

Use problems you know for your team, like fighting off cap zones leading to lack of travel for attack, give that problem to enemy. Especially when enemies you are engaging are not in either defend or attack cap. I always try to ignore enemy contact outside of cap for my whole squad, its really like trying to get a kid to "stop poking at ants, lets get moving". A FOB or a few would be a good way to bait enemies off a flag as you did say you venture off for those.

Of course enemy will continue to travel if not intercepted. If the 2nd squad could make contact and bounce off that enemy. At least report enemy direction from the flag we have early warning and could send assets to intercept and eat of that squad. Everything needs to go into attack with player count for that ease. But for defense where always will be a last man standing, skills like camouflage, playing dead, baiting enemy by sound, firing and moving away to new areas in cap zone.

When you dont have numbers you need to rely more on individual skills that are good for repeat kills. Sometimes playing dead you get up, kill one, go back down and have a fresh body to hide in. Other times like that video i posted, they are coming one after the other and i need to finish all my food.. I have to eat it before it eats me, this is defense.

[Cpt.Future]

I know i have felt my enemy wanting to throw grenade, hide or advance, lots of options go through their feelings fast clouding the energy you need to feel. But once they commit to their choice you can feel it. When i search for enemy i scared into hiding, I feel he is trying to hide. I feel his fear, pre-fire possible hiding holes i feel their fear and anxiety increase but not in relation to location unless they are right there just out of view. Before the thought comes into your mind in words "I must throw a grenade" what is the feeling of those words in the raw energy? Energy is a language, there probably is an alien race out there that can telepathically communicate strong than i describe here. Maybe this is how we evolve it through our awareness of it. Over generations it could get stronger as it is a energetic electrical signal process traveling through neurotransmitters that evolve themselves over generations

That's called "game sense" and you get it simply by playing a game a lot. If you've been in the same situation a couple of times you can kinda predict what the other person is going to do. It's really not that deep.

A building in the end everyone is cornered and some low angles cant be seen at all, other angles put you at great risk. Its like the arcade game whack-a-mole, where the mole pops out of the hole when you are in a building.

But that's the good thing about buildings: It's easier to isolate angles and there are less directions to worry about. E.g. sniping from deep inside a room is so much safer than sniping while being prone on a hilltop.

I hate buildings, if we had 100% destructible environments you would too.

They aren't though, so I don't.

In most buildings, you are 100% safe from area attacks and mortars.

[Grump/Gump.45]

That's called "game sense" and you get it simply by playing a game a lot. If you've been in the same situation a couple of times you can kinda predict what the other person is going to do. It's really not that deep.



But that's the good thing about buildings: It's easier to isolate angles and there are less directions to worry about. E.g. sniping from deep inside a room is so much safer than sniping while being prone on a hilltop.

When it comes to buildings i feel like every single window is just a picture on the wall for enemy to look at waiting for one of us to come into the picture. Inside of buildings have painted walls that highly contrast every single uniform in the game, makes you stand out. For snipers on hills, thats partially covered in Individual Fieldcraft for a brief second about how to look over the left or right side of a hill.

[Grump/Gump.45]

That's called "game sense" and you get it simply by playing a game a lot. If you've been in the same situation a couple of times you can kinda predict what the other person is going to do. It's really not that deep.

.

We are all Ghosts.. i gave my squad the "ROCKSTAR" speech one time and it just worked. It kind of proves there is a spiritual world we cant depict, imagine or understand because our minds are trapped in a 4 dimensional world imagining terrain not of the physical. It is who you are without the body because you can speak without moving your mouth. Focus on what we are here first, not what comes next. First step is to develop self awareness to what "thinking" even is, you can think in words or feelings.

But what you are behind it, behind the body. The body can be killed but the self aware energy you are cannot be killed. The body dies, we never do. Say in your mind, in your being the word "ROCKSTAR".. without moving your mouth you say it in your mind. Now if you said "ROCKSTAR" to yourself, ask yourself "Who was that? What voice just spoke.". That voice doesnt die, no idea if it forgets language or not when we die and goes back to full time psychic telepathic energy communication. Like i said, we can only answer questions for here where our spiritual selves reside in these bodies here. The body is a limiting capsule, people claim to astral project their spirits or whatever. Even our vision is limited to the visible light area of electromagnetic spectrum. Accept these limits of body but find ways around them. You need to look deeper at what isnt actually that deep, just apply self awareness to it.

When 2 people think the same thing whether there is something or not to provoke the thoughts in room together, words cannot psychically transmit, but feelings can because we are energy on different frequencies. It takes self awareness and to accept, understand and listen to the feeling. Tested and observed this with my friend and his girlfriend, they do be thinking the same things but not when arguing in some situations. They need to use empathy, at least one does towards the other so they can think the same things together. He needs to understand why she upset and not be mad about it. Change the perception.

When both are calm they think same things so casually. You only really see it when they acknowledge "I was just thinking that same thing", "I was just about to do that" or they say something together at same time. But when one is sad/mad and the other is indifferent they are on different frequencies, only way to enter that sad or mad frequency is empathy of understanding why she is feeling that way and feeling it with her after seeing her perception. You cant be you when doing this, you need to forget you and see her perceptions. I stopped their arguing one day by explaining how to not feel hate/anger towards the other person they love. Just because you mad never say "I dont care", is it really too hard for both of them to see each others perception? Use your energy not to create energetic barriers, let it flow and get over your personal ego of your side for a few minutes. Not everything is physical. It actually aint that deep, its right in your body you possess.

Look at the true nature and leave just about any imaginative Hollywood special effects or script writing cause those depictions poison the minds less exciting image of all this, you need to accept its all not exciting and doesnt revolve around a main character except what the vibrational vocal chord languages call God. They think it goes like human society structures where God is king, God has a body. Its poison of false depictions. Forget Hollywood movies, ghosts being all scary. Never let no demon, devil or negative energy scare you, having you believe you are a body and not energy just like them. Keep evil in fear. Its very casually happening whether you know it or not. In the physical they call it electrical signals passing through the brains neurotransmitters producing different chemicals with different electrical conductivity. Adrenaline, serotonin, dopamine or any other number of endorphins. Thats the physical.


No need to get all excited about new discovery, but try to use it. This is one of first steps. Another would be mindfulness of the physical, relax your whole body and feel every tiny feeling including down to your feet on the floor inside your shoes, the heat or cold, air on your skin, hands resting on your body, weight of your head, bones in your body. Feel it all without touching it, just feel how existing physically feels like its suddenly strange to be in a body. Then feel for who you are inside as i described here, knowing the physical science of the brains "electrical" energy, divide all physical feelings from spiritual.

[Brotherscompany]

Thx for all you guys taking your time to participate in the thread, definitely a nice discussion with some topics l had overlooked or new ideas to think about.

I guess it really comes down to your SL play style and who you play with at the end of the day or if you want to call it experience.
I basically only SL with randoms and some players that regularly join my SQ. I dont try going for fancy new stuff, I stick to the basics and repeat them when it comes in defense in order for it to work with a pool of people that Im not familiar with without knowing what the outcome will be if I dont place them all in a key building ( especially when it comes to people giving up and not waiting for a Medic ) and I have found it to be the most regularly effective plan to take. I like to keep stuff somewhat simple and easy to carry out and react ( the fact that Im a Admin and Im usually paying attention to that stuff doesnt allow me to have 100% focus on the gameplay ).

The way my mind works when SL is moving from a series of points that are usually buildings/compounds/high ground/sneak routes that I know that will work until I reach my final goal while calling out orders and sometimes micromanaging. I guess that my mind just got shaped in that way when approaching defense as well, being harder to pull of the same kind of coordination in those situations, very interesting to see you your take in defense especially as offense well.

Sorry for not replying to any specific paragraph, read all of them think you guys pretty much explain and are able to transmit your ideas

[Grump/Gump.45]

Thx for all you guys taking your time to participate in the thread, definitely a nice discussion with some topics l had overlooked or new ideas to think about.

I guess it really comes down to your SL play style and who you play with at the end of the day or if you want to call it experience.
I basically only SL with randoms and some players that regularly join my SQ. I dont try going for fancy new stuff, I stick to the basics and repeat them when it comes in defense in order for it to work with a pool of people

Due to my personality while under stress, its hard for me to find people who come back... But thats because its hard for people to understand it and not take it personally. But this gets me some of the best people who can come back, they are understanding, they get just as mad, they like to learn, they like to teach. The skills and fancy stuff I like to try keeps them coming back, my name is very memorable and especially the guy that yelled at you one day.

I guess once they go through enough squad leaders getting yelled at, seeing their dumb **** for these new players they always come back to me. New players generally join my squad as first timers cause most others dont and they can tell just by squad name "1 per cover".. "1 per tree" that there is something more behind me. So it joys me to see them come full circle after going through so many squad leaders, they come back to me because they at least learn something and its good practice. Then they make new friends, find maybe a squad leader I taught. Once i teach them how to learn by demonstrating and explaining skills. Then they go on their way.