When the tank fires its flamethrower it damages the tank itself from the fire. Going forward with cannon straight forward or pointed toward rear weak armor actively firing causes damage.
Off to the sides its not so bad with upward angle firing off to the right, where moving forward throws the flames on an outward angle like machine guns firing from a moving chopper.
I believe the fire that stays at the end of the barrel when done firing also damages the tank.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY_udsh3344
M67 Zippo flamethrower tank self damages when firing napalm
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Grump/Gump.45
- Posts: 637
- Joined: 2018-12-15 21:35
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Mats391
- PR:BF2 Lead Developer
- Posts: 7643
- Joined: 2010-08-06 18:06
Re: M67 Zippo flamethrower tank self damages when firing napalm
Thanks for the report, will be fixed
Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
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Grump/Gump.45
- Posts: 637
- Joined: 2018-12-15 21:35
Re: M67 Zippo flamethrower tank self damages when firing napalm
Thank you, this will be a tough fix. The flame is intended to destroy the enemy tank, so just like if you throw a grenade on yourself, fire rocket or drop jet bomb you die in whatever vehicle you are using.
This should be the only weapon that should not damage itself when firing unless and until the tank touches a flaming surface it runs over touching the bottom(low gradual damage) or back splashes napalm on a tree/rock or other surface onto itself (high damage).
On the subjects of napalm aspects in game overall, against infantry, against tanks, its duration, lack of flame blinding effects, not sticking to infantry, not being a delayed 1 hit kill against infantry, lack of black smoke production (as if it were from smoke grenade) I will delve into below. All needs fixing for full game immersion.
As I have in the past destroyed enemy tank on Hill 488 with napalm, as well as FOBs, I have not tested its crate destruction though, I have also burned many enemies but never seen one go down, its so slow and doesn't burn long enough. 30-60 seconds is needed. It also doesn't stick to players, if I am not mistake doesn't stick to vehicles well or at all either (maybe its the flame duration in my eyes).
Its flame damage pace seems to be the same as that of any fire I have been burned by in game, like the Gaza or Ramiel static burning road block models.
This is what also needs to change
1.) Make a difference between regular static fires and napalm fire damage.
2.)It doesn't stick to infantry, doesn't blind them permanently with flame till death so they run around panicking and going prone trying in vein to put it out for our amusement and awe, that also needs to be fixed.
3.)Not on enough maps and not on any night maps for our amusement and awe connected to #2 on the list, also needs to be fixed.
4.)Tank/other vehicle snorkeling systems for deep fording for no water damage (research/fix)
5.)The damage and high ammunition requirement balance along side the realistic 100 meter distance limitation of the flamethrower on the subject of destroying the enemy tanks/vehicles/equipment. Needs fixing by increased flame duration and damage models for napalm flame. One burst burning for 60 seconds on objects should be enough.
6.) Increased napalm flame duration for area denial, appropriate engagement damage balance for infantry and vehicles hit (suggested 30 seconds dirt/concrete/green flat textures, 60 seconds for infantry, buildings, vegetation, trees, vehicles and objects etc from flame thrower, 2-10 minutes for napalm bombs, proportionate to napalm amount and output of the bomb)
7.) Only cannon that is not a one hit kill(not 1 ammo value, more like 5-20 for infantry and 10-70 for vehicles), Napalm is a one hit kill, just delayed, slowly and painfully. Needs to be fixed.
8.) Napalm produces black smoke, needed for concealment, blinding and area denial wall psychological effect.
9.) Make game read flames and black smoke from napalm as if it were just regular smokes we throw of different yellow flame/black smoke color with damage/stick effect to prevent performance issues from increased flame duration should they arise. If this helps.
More than half of this comes from flame duration and damage effect, then lack of realistic effects featured.
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It takes us 100-200 Napalm rounds to destroy enemy tank while it takes them 1-3 shots on us from further distance, it should take us 10-50 depending on where we hit box it over a 60 second burn time on their engine block, ammo rack, barrel turret breach chassis cook off.
Plus increased blinding suppression of overwhelming itself flame when we hit their gun sight, no blur needed, just flame. Same for infantry we hit, blind and burning till dead.
We need longer flame duration, so its like once we hit enemy tank with 10-50 rounds of napalm they are in danger no matter what, same as if they hit us 1-3 times, hitting their gun sight should blind them for 60 seconds, their tank will burn till it eventually burns up. Maybe they should avoid coming within 100 meters of us, make this tank the dangerous beast it is.
60 seconds maximum from flame thrower, 2-10 minutes from Napalm bomb. Will address that below.
Vehicles driving through water taking damage even though we clearly haven't studied snorkeling systems which allow deep fording, a feature of many tanks and military vehicles. Needs to be fixed.
It would be nice to keep the barrel fire at the end(whack enemy with), just without the damage hitbox on the barrel, the radiant heat damage should be non-existent against this tank.
All fire is gradual damage.
It should stick to and blind the infantry player and make them burn till dead, this is the only tank that isn't a one hit main cannon kill. IRL it is, slowly and painfully. This change can make them realistically freak out running blindly in circle on fire for our amusement and awe, going prone panicking to put it out.
I want to stick some napalm to a full squad on a night map, make them make repeated loud yelling damage sounds. Maximum realism
When I engage the enemy tank, it take like 100-200+ rounds of napalm, but when they hit us with their cannon once it does greater damage from greater distance capability than our 100 meter flamer thrower.
They get us from farther using less ammo while we are limited in distance. I got tactics to use infantry anti-tank to get it while I bait, but the flame doesn't burn long enough or produce black smoke for escape concealment alongside the damage issue.
Realistically, 10-50 round napalm burst is all I should need depending on where I flame the tank, the duration of the flame needs to increase realistically as an event for the enemy tank in order of blinding, breach exploding effect, ammo rack then engine from a 10-60 round napalm burst.
60 seconds of burn time on the engine should destroy them from 100% health. Driving in water should put it out if its not Napalm B with white phosphorus (research which tanks have snorkel systems). So the damage needs to be balance with that difference of static fire and napalm fire.
This is also where flame duration comes into play. The flame needs to blind the tank when I hit its front sight, no track damage unless its wheels and disable its gun from cook off after certain amount of turret chassis heat damage from temperature increase (Can you make barrel cook off explosion effect inside turret kill gunner?)
I noticed that when you sit close to a fire without damage, very realistically you slowly cook until you start to take damage. Sit just out of immediate damage zone of fire and you will eventually start to take damage gradually increasing rate from rising body temperature, slowly cooking, smoke inhalation etc.
The Napalm flamethrower and bomb doesn't have a long enough area denial duration, 60 seconds for flame thrower and at least 2 minutes for napalm bomb is appropriate if not 30 minutes. Directly proportionate to napalm amount in a weapon and output on an area.
See if we can get longer flame thrower fire duration of 30 seconds on ground with dirt/ flat texture green ground. Then 60 seconds when on tall grass/plants, trees and bushes. It should be read by the game as smoke as well as produce a black smoke for concealment.
The napalm needs to stick. I use flamethrower as a weapon of fear, wall of fire and tool of concealment. The Crawling Dragon.
This should be the only weapon that should not damage itself when firing unless and until the tank touches a flaming surface it runs over touching the bottom(low gradual damage) or back splashes napalm on a tree/rock or other surface onto itself (high damage).
On the subjects of napalm aspects in game overall, against infantry, against tanks, its duration, lack of flame blinding effects, not sticking to infantry, not being a delayed 1 hit kill against infantry, lack of black smoke production (as if it were from smoke grenade) I will delve into below. All needs fixing for full game immersion.
As I have in the past destroyed enemy tank on Hill 488 with napalm, as well as FOBs, I have not tested its crate destruction though, I have also burned many enemies but never seen one go down, its so slow and doesn't burn long enough. 30-60 seconds is needed. It also doesn't stick to players, if I am not mistake doesn't stick to vehicles well or at all either (maybe its the flame duration in my eyes).
Its flame damage pace seems to be the same as that of any fire I have been burned by in game, like the Gaza or Ramiel static burning road block models.
This is what also needs to change
1.) Make a difference between regular static fires and napalm fire damage.
2.)It doesn't stick to infantry, doesn't blind them permanently with flame till death so they run around panicking and going prone trying in vein to put it out for our amusement and awe, that also needs to be fixed.
3.)Not on enough maps and not on any night maps for our amusement and awe connected to #2 on the list, also needs to be fixed.
4.)Tank/other vehicle snorkeling systems for deep fording for no water damage (research/fix)
5.)The damage and high ammunition requirement balance along side the realistic 100 meter distance limitation of the flamethrower on the subject of destroying the enemy tanks/vehicles/equipment. Needs fixing by increased flame duration and damage models for napalm flame. One burst burning for 60 seconds on objects should be enough.
6.) Increased napalm flame duration for area denial, appropriate engagement damage balance for infantry and vehicles hit (suggested 30 seconds dirt/concrete/green flat textures, 60 seconds for infantry, buildings, vegetation, trees, vehicles and objects etc from flame thrower, 2-10 minutes for napalm bombs, proportionate to napalm amount and output of the bomb)
7.) Only cannon that is not a one hit kill(not 1 ammo value, more like 5-20 for infantry and 10-70 for vehicles), Napalm is a one hit kill, just delayed, slowly and painfully. Needs to be fixed.
8.) Napalm produces black smoke, needed for concealment, blinding and area denial wall psychological effect.
9.) Make game read flames and black smoke from napalm as if it were just regular smokes we throw of different yellow flame/black smoke color with damage/stick effect to prevent performance issues from increased flame duration should they arise. If this helps.
More than half of this comes from flame duration and damage effect, then lack of realistic effects featured.
--------------------------------------------------Details----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It takes us 100-200 Napalm rounds to destroy enemy tank while it takes them 1-3 shots on us from further distance, it should take us 10-50 depending on where we hit box it over a 60 second burn time on their engine block, ammo rack, barrel turret breach chassis cook off.
Plus increased blinding suppression of overwhelming itself flame when we hit their gun sight, no blur needed, just flame. Same for infantry we hit, blind and burning till dead.
We need longer flame duration, so its like once we hit enemy tank with 10-50 rounds of napalm they are in danger no matter what, same as if they hit us 1-3 times, hitting their gun sight should blind them for 60 seconds, their tank will burn till it eventually burns up. Maybe they should avoid coming within 100 meters of us, make this tank the dangerous beast it is.
60 seconds maximum from flame thrower, 2-10 minutes from Napalm bomb. Will address that below.
Vehicles driving through water taking damage even though we clearly haven't studied snorkeling systems which allow deep fording, a feature of many tanks and military vehicles. Needs to be fixed.
It would be nice to keep the barrel fire at the end(whack enemy with), just without the damage hitbox on the barrel, the radiant heat damage should be non-existent against this tank.
All fire is gradual damage.
It should stick to and blind the infantry player and make them burn till dead, this is the only tank that isn't a one hit main cannon kill. IRL it is, slowly and painfully. This change can make them realistically freak out running blindly in circle on fire for our amusement and awe, going prone panicking to put it out.
I want to stick some napalm to a full squad on a night map, make them make repeated loud yelling damage sounds. Maximum realism
When I engage the enemy tank, it take like 100-200+ rounds of napalm, but when they hit us with their cannon once it does greater damage from greater distance capability than our 100 meter flamer thrower.
They get us from farther using less ammo while we are limited in distance. I got tactics to use infantry anti-tank to get it while I bait, but the flame doesn't burn long enough or produce black smoke for escape concealment alongside the damage issue.
Realistically, 10-50 round napalm burst is all I should need depending on where I flame the tank, the duration of the flame needs to increase realistically as an event for the enemy tank in order of blinding, breach exploding effect, ammo rack then engine from a 10-60 round napalm burst.
60 seconds of burn time on the engine should destroy them from 100% health. Driving in water should put it out if its not Napalm B with white phosphorus (research which tanks have snorkel systems). So the damage needs to be balance with that difference of static fire and napalm fire.
This is also where flame duration comes into play. The flame needs to blind the tank when I hit its front sight, no track damage unless its wheels and disable its gun from cook off after certain amount of turret chassis heat damage from temperature increase (Can you make barrel cook off explosion effect inside turret kill gunner?)
I noticed that when you sit close to a fire without damage, very realistically you slowly cook until you start to take damage. Sit just out of immediate damage zone of fire and you will eventually start to take damage gradually increasing rate from rising body temperature, slowly cooking, smoke inhalation etc.
The Napalm flamethrower and bomb doesn't have a long enough area denial duration, 60 seconds for flame thrower and at least 2 minutes for napalm bomb is appropriate if not 30 minutes. Directly proportionate to napalm amount in a weapon and output on an area.
See if we can get longer flame thrower fire duration of 30 seconds on ground with dirt/ flat texture green ground. Then 60 seconds when on tall grass/plants, trees and bushes. It should be read by the game as smoke as well as produce a black smoke for concealment.
The napalm needs to stick. I use flamethrower as a weapon of fear, wall of fire and tool of concealment. The Crawling Dragon.
Last edited by Grump/Gump.45 on 2023-07-18 15:11, edited 2 times in total.