Public Testing of CnC Rework

[CAS_ual_TY]

Hello,
this thread servers the purpose of feedback for all public tests of the new CnC rework. The gamemode has been reworked in an attempt to make it better for public gameplay. I have offered servers to test it in events. If those events prove successful we might get this rework to replace the current one in the game.
ITS NOT IN THE BASE GAME RIGHT NOW

----------------------------------------------------

Description

In CNCv2, capturable CPs are no longer featured. Instead, FOBs serve as the primary objectives for both attack and defense. Each team can construct up to three FOBs, which are revealed to the enemy in a manner similar to caches in Insurgency. To compensate for this, teams are allowed to place twice the usual number of emplacements on a single FOB.

Active FOBs cause the enemy team to lose tickets over time. The ticket bleed inflicted by a FOB depends on its proximity to the designated area of interest (marked on the map), with the maximum effect achieved when the FOB is placed inside this area. Additionally, maintaining a greater number of FOBs than the enemy reduces the ticket bleed your team suffers.

However, losing a FOB results in an immediate ticket penalty. Teams must carefully balance their strategies: too few FOBs increase ticket bleed, while too many FOBs spread defensive resources thin, making them harder to protect. This gamemode challenges teams to find the right balance between offensive and defensive tactics to achieve victory.

To ensure a fair start, the gamemode features a 10-minute grace period at the beginning of each match. During this time, no ticket bleed occurs, and FOB locations remain hidden.






Frequently Asked Questions

Why is the gamemode remade?

The current CNC gamemode is not being played publicly. There are multiple problems with it which can be seen as a reason, the primary ones are not enough spawn points and no clear indication of what you need to do. It also does not work well in events because it usually ends up with both teams defending their single point since attacking is a lot harder due to the reasons just explained.


What are the primary changes from the old gamemode?

You can now build multiple FOBs and you always bleed if the enemy has atleast a single FOB up (yes, both teams can bleed at the same time).


So the team with more FOBs is bleeding less?

Usually, yes. However, there are scenarios where even if you have more FOBs than the enemy you are still bleeding more than them. This requires you to place all your FOBs in the corners of the map while your opponent places them inside the area of interest.


Does placing a FOB always increase the bleed on the enemy?

No. If you want to precisely know how the bleeding works, please read the exact description below or go to the end of this post for the exact bleed modifier.


Why is the bleeding mechanic so complicated?

There are multiple reasons why this is:

• Keep games within a certain minimum and maximum time period
• Balance attacking and defending
• Make the gamemode work in settings of both pub and event gameplay

How to maximize winning chances?

All you really need to know to win is this:

• Do not place your FOBs in corners
• Have more FOBs up than the enemy or destroy their FOBs quickly (= within 15min) after they get revealed

----------------------------------------------------

This is the old (and precise) description:

Here is how the rework works:
- Build a FOB
- After the FOB has been enabled (= spawnable) once, a reveal timer (=2min) is started
- When the timer runs out, Attack and Defend markers are added to the FOBs
- If the game has not reached 10 minutes yet, the markers are delayed until then
- Attack marker is inaccurate for the attackers, up to 3 keypads off on each axis
- The FOB makes the enemies bleed while it is enabled (= spawnable)
- A FOB that was spawnable once and is removed entirely results in a ticket penalty of 30 tickets
- Demolishing a fob does not yield a ticket penalty if it does not disappear entirely
- Removing a FOB before it was spawnable (eg. to place it better) does not yield a ticket penalty
- The closer the FOB is to the center of the map, the stronger the ticket bleed
- If its within area of interest (marked by markers) the bleed modifier is maximized [see image]
- Fobs outside this area have their bleed modifier scale down linearly depending on distance
- Bleed modifier is actually smaller than 1 if its outside of the radius map-size/2 (only possible in the corners of the map) [see outer circle in image below]
- You can build multiple FOBs per team. If team A has 3 fobs and team B has 2 fobs, then the bleed of the one with the lesser fobs (= team B) is multiplied by the fraction of the numbers (= 2/3), i.e. the team with more FOBs has the bleed inflicted on them reduced.
- More fobs does not necessarily mean increased bleed modifier. Your bleed modifier is the average of all fobs, and then the above mentioned fraction is applied to that.

Thats it! Let me know what you think and please also relay whether or not you have been part of such a public test. Thank you!

----------------------------------------------------

People have been asking me for the exact bleed modifier. Keep the bold text in mind.

base-bleed * average-bleed-modifier * min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs)
this is how much you inflict on the enemy. base bleed is 0.05 tickets per second. max modifier is 1.5

EDIT:

Since i keep getting asked, here even more details. But let me say this: Stop trying to cheese this. These values were chosen to result in roughly ~1h games. They werent chosen for any cheesing of maxing. As long as you have more fobs up than the enemy and your fobs arent too far away from the center you are winning.

average-bleed-modifier = the average bleed modifier of all your fobs
inside middle a fob has 1.5
up to 2nd circle a fob has 1.0
outside 2nd circle its less than 1.0
so this value is maximum 1.5

min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs) this part is dependent on fob amount

base-bleed this is 0.05 per second
the entire formula is how much you inflict on the enemy
if you have 0 fobs they dont bleed

EXAMPLE:
you have 3 fobs in the center (they all have max bleed modifier 1.5)
the enemy has 2 fobs around the outer circle, 1 with modifier 1.2, the other with 0.8.
The bleed you inflict on the enemy per second:

Code: Select all

base-bleed * average-bleed-modifier * min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs) =
0.05 * (1.5+1.5+1.5)/3 * min(1.0, 3/2) =
0.05 * 1.5 * 1.0 =
0.075 tickets per second = 45 tickets per 10min

The bleed they inflict on you:

Code: Select all

base-bleed * average-bleed-modifier * min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs) =
0.05 * (0.8+1.2)/2 * min(1.0, 2/3) =
0.05 * 1.0 * 2/3 =
0.0333~ tickets per second = 20 tickets per 10min

[CAS_ual_TY]

Event on Alliance, 19:00 PRT, 8th of February 2025: viewtopic.php?p=2258875

[CAS_ual_TY]

Updated info to mention multiple FOBs being possible now.

[CG-Delta]

I've played PR since 2008 and I believe I've played CnC two times in that time. So I have a theory that the far majority of people who never vote CnC have never played it. I also think most of those who speak badly of it to newer players asking about it, also haven't played it, not knowing what they are talking about.
I for one, despite playing for 16 years, can say that I'm unqualified to say that the game-mode is in need of improvement or otherwise, or whether I like it. Some vote to see something new, most are urged against new.

So kudos for bringing it to light. A shame it is advertised as clan wars though. The new settings are probably unnecessary as the Manual's 7 lines of text, were never under critique during my (remembered) CnC play, as they weren't bothered to be read. (people didn't know what the game mode was about, and started disliking it already by that fact. ...answers to questions fell on deaf ears...)
But the new settings may work as rebranding, changing the thought "CnC bad" to "CnC playable again?" (narrative).
Specific critique: Removing the 1-FOB limit, so you can place, what 6 FOBs was a poor choice IMO. Gives me images of BF2 where every squad just go to what is the least contested of the 6 flags. Corrections 2x6 flags. That doesn't exactly promote a cohesive team, if they want to win, that is.

[CAS_ual_TY]

As an ex community leader and server admin: CNC is not in a state where it is pub-playable right now. Thats the reason why it is played soo rarely.
There has been an ongoing discussion about it here: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=153751

There are multiple reasons why I decided to test multiple FOBs for now in the initial play tests:
- PR has some "Axioms" that players expect. One of them being 6 FOBs are placable on a given map. Changing this for a specific gamemode is not good.
- The primary goal is to make it pub playable. Now imagine some rando squad just building a FOB somewhere after the entire team already decided to build it somewhere else (but randos where faster).
- FOBs are your spawn points. More spawn points = better.
- Team cohesion doesnt get lost just because you can build multiple FOBs. You dont have to build multiple fobs if you take out the enemey FOBs quickly enough. Since you split up your defenses per FOB this because a balancing act which goes very deep especially on organised play.

And yes: The goal is also to make a rebranding. Not only to players, but also to admins who are the ones who chose the map and gamemode in the end.

[Wicca]

IMMA SIGN UP, where is the sign up button

[axytho]

IMMA SIGN UP, where is the sign up button

See the U777 discord: https://discord.gg/Z5gMhK4e

[Catmouse]

Interesting concept re rule changes.

I like the fact that the loss of a FOB gives a 30 ticket penalty. It is a nice incentive to attack, and to punush overstretching of defenses.

Just to clarify: Players can spawn on a FOB once it is active, and even if it is not revealed (via reveal timer trigger). The FOB is counted for bleed. Also, the FOB can be removed without penalty because unless the reveal timer has expired. Is this a loophole that can be used for deployment, or in order to incur small bleed incremements on the enemy?

Perhaps it is better in install the FOB penalty once the FOB has gone active.

[CAS_ual_TY]

Interesting concept re rule changes.

I like the fact that the loss of a FOB gives a 30 ticket penalty. It is a nice incentive to attack, and to punush overstretching of defenses.

Just to clarify: Players can spawn on a FOB once it is active, and even if it is not revealed (via reveal timer trigger). The FOB is counted for bleed. Also, the FOB can be removed without penalty because unless the reveal timer has expired. Is this a loophole that can be used for deployment, or in order to incur small bleed incremements on the enemy?

Perhaps it is better in install the FOB penalty once the FOB has gone active.

A FOB that has not been revealed has no objective reward or punishment involved, so both for inflicting bleed and for getting a penalty. You could use this loop hole to have a spawn point for a short period of time. Thats all, however. You can not make the enemy bleed with a FOB that was not revealed.

EDIT: What I also wanted to publicly mention: You can cheese a lot here. I have explained the mechanics very precisely and I see a lot of deep planning and discussions in some discord server(s). All you need to do is this: Have more FOBs up than the enemy and dont have your FOBs in the corner of the map.

EDIT2: A practical bleed example.
- Team A has 2 FOBs, all inside the middle circle. So the average bleed modifier is simply the max bleed modifier, which is 1.5
- Team B has 3 FOBs further outside close around the outer circle. Their average bleed modifier is 1.2
- Since Team B has 3 FOBs and Team A only has 2, the bleed of Team A is reduced and multiplied by 2/3, which results in 1.5*2/3=1.0. As such, Team A is currently losing.
- Team A can now build another Fob to get rid of this reduction. Or take out an enemy FOB. But every extra FOB you build needs to be defended.

Rule of thumb is: If you can not hold your FOB for atleast 10 minutes after it was revealed, the loss of the FOB inflicted more damage to you than its uptime did to the enemy. So having a dedicated QRF to attack enemy FOBs immediately after reveal is a good gameplan.

[Bonvi]

The name "bleed modifier" suggests that it's applied to some base bleed value. What is it?
And what's the resulting bleed in your example in tickets/second?

[CAS_ual_TY]

base-bleed * average-bleed-modifier * min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs)
this is how much you inflict on the enemy. base bleed is 0.05 tickets per second. max modifier is 1.5

EDIT:

Since i keep getting asked, here even more details. But let me say this: Stop trying to cheese this. These values were chosen to result in roughly ~1h games. They werent chosen for any cheesing of maxing. As long as you have more fobs up than the enemy and your fobs arent too far away from the center you are winning.

average-bleed-modifier = the average bleed modifier of all your fobs
inside middle a fob has 1.5
up to 2nd circle a fob has 1.0
outside 2nd circle its less than 1.0
so this value is maximum 1.5

min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs) this part is dependent on fob amount

base-bleed this is 0.05 per second
the entire formula is how much you inflict on the enemy
if you have 0 fobs they dont bleed

EXAMPLE:
you have 3 fobs in the center (they all have max bleed modifier 1.5)
the enemy has 2 fobs around the outer circle, 1 with modifier 1.2, the other with 0.8.
The bleed you inflict on the enemy per second:

Code: Select all

base-bleed * average-bleed-modifier * min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs) =
0.05 * (1.5+1.5+1.5)/3 * min(1.0, 3/2) =
0.05 * 1.5 * 1.0 =
0.075 tickets per second = 45 tickets per 10min

The bleed they inflict on you:

Code: Select all

base-bleed * average-bleed-modifier * min(1.0, your-fobs / their-fobs) =
0.05 * (0.8+1.2)/2 * min(1.0, 2/3) =
0.05 * 1.0 * 2/3 =
0.0333~ tickets per second = 20 tickets per 10min

[Menuen]

In my opinion you should get rid of area attack completely or change it to mortar area attack with big radius and make new FOB building that will provide 360 degree cover from indirect hits (make circle with sandbags around fob).

Area attack counters FOB's that are made in the open area of the map, without risking own ticket's, and limits possible FOB locations.

The new FOB building will change nothing in AAS and INS, it will still die by area attack. But in CNC you will still get a chance to shovel it up under mortar strike, and if there is no one on fob or you get unlucky it will die anyway.

[DoctorDoom]

So, I think there is still room for improvement and some things should be changed to make this game mode pub compatible. I will list some of them when I get some time free.

[SGT-Zaious]

I don't have any suggestions at the moment for this mod, but I'm actually waiting for it to become public as it will be more fun than other mods.

[Edi1314]

Best gamemode ever. 24/7 CnC put it in the game , play it all the time . This is what PR is about. Good job CASualty

[Edi1314]

CnC Is gonna be the dominating gamemode in PR for the years to come with this redefined CnC

[Edi1314]

IMMA SIGN UP, where is the sign up button

Traitor !!!11!!!!1oneone!!111!!!!!!!!!!!!

Didn't see you @u777 event

[Catmouse]

Feedback re the two games:

From the perspective of an INF SL in both games, I have to say that I had an a very positive gaming experience in an organised setting. I would wish for the game mode being available mod asap.

1. I experienced a very dynamic gameplay in regard to the balance between offenes and defense. More dynamic than in AAS based organised game events so far e.g. a) Defensive squad mission changed into an offensive setting after the loss of a FOB, b) squads were reinforced to prevent the capture and destruction of a partly overrun FOB position. Also, the lack of a linear progression widened the scope of strategic options, which I find very refreshing!

2. IMHO The more dynamic nature of the game mode rewards a functional SL layer even more and team work even more. SL Communication, XO moderation or even decision making in command hierarchy have a higher impact.

3. With 30 tickets, FOBs are a major asset and risk. The amount of tickets you can inflict on the enemy gives a nice incentive for attacking. Their placement needs to be weighted on the overall battlefield situation, as they are a priority target and in most cases, can not be left unattended. This dictates a delicate balance between offensive and defense - FOB placement and number needs to be adjusted to the situation - and it is less clear what is the right choice: having more offensive units, or reducing own bleed more but stay more static and defensive.
The FOBs feel like they are the main game driver. SLs need to learn the gamemode in order to incorporate that into their gaming behaviour. Not sure how much drama there is in the bushes when looking at Freekit SLs on public servers. Not sure if XO should be to block a FOB from being built in order to prevent bad placements.

4. The beforementioned point (#3) also leads to a reduced availability of front line FOBs. Given the short expiration of Rally Points and their unevitable loss in combat this leads to a more harsh experience when getting shot. At the end, this encourages careful infantry play and even more functional use of transport assets.

5. For public server games, I imagine there needs to be better onboarding towards the game mode, perhaps in the title / loading screen.You are right that one does not really need the formulas, but it should be clear to the players that there is a circle in the Center, and an outer circle, and what the proper strategy is for SLs in order to success: balance number of FOBs, organise with communication.

6. The area attack is definitely a very powerful tool on maps that do not offer any options to hide FOBs inside buildings or caves.

7. I have not figured out the overall meta game yet. So hard to say anything about ermerging strategies. From the looks of the game mode now (and IMHO) the meta game will be something around placement of 3±1 FOBS around the central location with defensive troops stationed around them, and a multi squad assault element plus recon.

8. Not sure if the centre circle should stay constant, or if there should not be different variations of it. Why a circle, why not a elliptic zone? The radius of the circles certainly seemed to be right for me.

9. Not sure if overall ticket number per team should not be a bit higher. Or perhaps there should be some variation to that for shorter and longer games.

10. It was hard for me to tell who was winning for some time.

As mentioned above, I believe that this mode is a far better replacement t to the original CnC mode. I think it needs to be implemented into the game, and tweaked on the go. Also, players need to be socialised: I would the servers run this game mode for half a weekend.

Thanks to developing and organising! +1

[Marko.]

literally one of the most fun game modes ever 24/7 CnC is a must-have in the game ill play it all the time, and it perfectly captures what Project Reality is all about fantastic job, CASualty <3

[Sad-Boy]

Hello ....
after the event that U777 Server hosted of the rework of CNC this is my feedback. ( assets player feedback )
Game play : Playing INF layer was Very Fun and competitive , heard and saw enemy APCs a couple times which is was very scary , because of the low amount of APCs it had a high value , building FOBs and tows was very important and it Forced trans be very active .
every squad was sticked together and had to communicate to other squads , their is multiple objectives and u need to mix defense and offense u might get attacked and lose a FOB or destroy one , so u have to stay on your toes and be ready for a plan B .
commander rule was very useful and its one of the main reasons to win
you cant just solo play cnc , u have to be in a squad and follow orders and play as team .
structure : 400 and 500 tickets is a good amount to play a good 40 , 50 min game play ( it could be increased a little bit) but 40 min was enough to have a great and do alot of stuff unlike AAS or INS that you could play it for more than one hour easily which is kinda annoying because you dont get to play other maps or game modes as if we had CNC .
FOBS had High value and it was the main asset , and losing a FOB = -30 tickets which is more than enough to make u lose a game .
For CNC you cant really tell who is winning because the enemy still have a chance to destroy multiple FOBs at one time .
improvement:
i dont think having heavy assets will be fun for INF game play cuse i felt that CNC was INF focus , even tho u have 2 tows on FOB , a tank can shoot those to tows easily (a tank can take 2 hits or Tow on the front armor) as u know , Having APCs and light Apcs is better .
tickets are fine and you can add extra 100 or 50 tickets more .
honestly CNC is READY TO GO , and small improvements can be found later as we get more of CNC experience.
all thanks to the developers , and special thank to CAS_UAL_TY.
hope everyone is having a good day and i wish you the best