Real life weapon characteristics (and other suggestions)

Novan leon · Post by **Novan leon** » 2005-07-11 20:52

1. Remove crosshairs, this forces the use of iron sights for any kind of aimed firing. Unsighted firing would only be used during close combat situations where sighting your weapon would take too long.

2. Guns are much more accurate AND deadly in real life. Most guns in games have highly decreased accuracy and damage values to help make the firefights longer and make things more fun for the players. This is because the lack of other realistic factors would make it far far too easy get kills if they didn't handicap the players a bit. In real life guns are dangerous, even pistols will almost always kill if not handicap an opponent with a single shot.

3. In real life bullets do not hit randomly, they hit where the barrel is pointed. If my rifle is pointed directly at a spot and I fire, the bullets should hit the same mark regardless of the number of times I fire. In real life the only inconsistencies in a firing pattern comes from the instability of the weapon being held by a person. This is why IRL if you rest your rifle on a tree stump or something you can greatly increase your accuracy as opposed to standing. Most games try to simulate this inconsistency by having shots land in a random area of probability based on the various factors. This should be changed and instead weapon sway should be added to all the weapons. (which leads me to my next item)

4. Add weapon sway to all weapons in all stances. When moving your sway should be HUGE, bascily unmanageable, just like in real life. (which leads into the next item)

5. People do not fire while in movement. Just try it yourself, try firing while walking, running, jumping, falling, etc.. It's impossible to do so with any accuracy. In real life the first thing someone does when firing their weapon is STOP and stabalize yourself in order to make an accurate shot. The weapon sway should be adjusted appropriately, firing with any kind of accuracy while running should be impossible, and IRL soldiers who waste ammo do not last very long. (which leads to the next item...)

6. Add the correct timing and inertia. People do not run, stop on a dime, and instantly sight their weapon with perfect stability. It takes time to do each of the actions. The faster your running the more time it takes to come to a full stop and stabalize yourself before you can lift your weapon and begin to take aim. In the game you can do all these things almost instantaneously, which is why you get people running around in circles and jumping spasmatically to avoid being shot; in real life if you did this it would be so much easier to track that it would be the near equivalent of committing suicide. A real soldiers responce to a surprise attack should be to hit the dirt and crawl for cover or drop to one knee and open fire on the attackers position. Also, the heavier/larger your weapon the longer it should take to turn/stabalize your weapon. This is one of the reasons why pistols and compact weapons are prefered for close combat situations

6. At least simulate some of the ballistics of real firearms. In real life a pistol is rarely used for combat situations over 20 meters, the reasons for this include barrel length, bullet velocity, etc.. The end result should be a weapon that closely simulates the behavior of a real life hand held firearm, one that is great for close range/secondary utility purposes but which can't "snipe" people from long ranges like in the current BF2.

7. Minor physical details. This may be nitpicky but sometimes these details make a difference in gameplay:
- Try holding a rifle and run up to a wall, you can only get so close to the wall before the gun gets in the way. It'd be neat to see a system where if you stand facing a wall from that close you autmatically lift the weapon up and are unable to fire it until you back up. This is one of the things that makes compact arms so much more favorable in extreme close quarters combat like inside a hotel, etc..
- If you use a parachute it usually takes a minute or two to cut it off and/or get out of it. I think an addition like this would greatly discourage the abuse of the parachute. Right now people have absolutely no fear of using planes as ferry's to fly over a combat area and just jump out and begin fighting.

8. Some other nice communication additions:
- Add localized MIC chat. You can only hear people who are reasonably close to you, and you can hear ANYONE who is reasonably close to you, not just your squad members. Just imagine the thrill of walking behind an enemy player to hear him talking over his radio to his teammates just before you take him out with your silenced pistol.
- Add hand signals. I'm not sure how practical it is but this would definitely be realistic for those stealth sitations or during the middle of combat when it's too loud for normal communication.

keyser Soeze.KIA. · Post by **keyser Soeze.KIA.** » 2005-07-11 21:42

Good list m8.

7. Minor physical details.

I think the "ragdoll" physics isnt working very well as it is now. Try to make it more realistic when shot at.

TerribleOne · Post by **TerribleOne** » 2005-07-11 22:59

nice list. also about the ragdols. dont send them 200feet in the air when you get hit by a missile. add blood when you/they get shot at. Also blood that stays on the floor for as long as is reasonably appropiate.

but i dont agree with all your point to the degree you do. Running and firing and stopping and firing etc are all vastly different. im fairly confident there are troops who can run and fire fairly accuratly wheras others wont.
also id like to mention about pistols. there is no reason why pistols cannot be accurate at reasonable ranges. if you can line up the sights (ok when your stil/resting on somthing) then there is no reason why a pistol cannot be accurate. take the 50ae deagle for example it is extremely accurate when locked in a tripod. however when a person shoots it freehand the huge recoil makes it allmost impossible to get consistent groupings at any medium/long range.

just be carful we dont end up with a mod that takes away the thril of gaming. fps shooters are meant to be fast and fun. i believe if a mod was made so accurate as a real war no one would play it because it would be extremely boring.

this is a game for fun and whilst we need enviroments and weapons/ players/ actions etc etc accurate we need them to still be very fun and appealing to players of all background.

Bf2 attracts guys who love flight simulators for example but also people from quake. and bf2 allows all these players to have there own. but i do agree with your initial ideas just not as extreme as you stated.

sorry if i lost the topic.

Novan leon · Post by **Novan leon** » 2005-07-11 23:44

I don't know any soldier who would fire at a target while running unless the purpose was to cover his or a teammates movement, this is done in a haphazard fashion and would rarely pose a real threat IMHO.

Yes, you can get accurate with a sidearm for distance longer than 20m but this isn't your usual case. A sidearm was meant for near distance firing as a support or secondary weapon. How many US Marines do you know with a Desert Eagle locked in a tripod? (I confess I've never heard of such a thing) If your going to go to this length you might as well just use your M16, after all that's what it's for.

I understand that things still need to be fun but I'm just telling you how it is. If the object of this mod is realism then I believe the fun part will take care of itself.

CobraPhantom · Post by **CobraPhantom** » 2005-07-11 23:52

I agree with most of it. Weapons sway should be increased after you lose or get close to losing your stamina. The heavier the weapon, the more is should sway. Prone should have a minimal amount of sway, crouch having more than prone, standing having the most, etc... Could even add more sway when your injured.

Nice list you got there.

Sh0rtbUs · Post by **Sh0rtbUs** » 2005-07-11 23:58

Just a note on small arms accuracy in combat.

A lot of the time, combat requires getting your kit bumped around. A lot of small arms can lose their zero from this, causing your weapon to be far more inaccurate, despite the riflemans capabilities. MG's, well... its really dependant on the gunner. I've watched guys cut down a 4 inch post with a 5.56 C9 (M249 SAW for you yanks) from 100m away, and i've also watched 7.62 GPMG's throw 2-3 rounds through a target from 500m away, out of an entire belt. Its really hard to say...

Not to mention, a 2 way shooting range is a totally different story...

I know on several accounts, at check points during the initial push into Iraq, First Marine Recon Bn have accounts of lighting up small vehicles with combined small arms and LMG fire, disabling the vehicle... only to have all the occupants then step out, unscathed and lie down on the road in surrender.

From the same accounts, a gunner from a Humvee managed a headshot, out of a 3 round burst to a driver... with a .50cal. Anyone who has fired a .50 cal will know, this is unbelievable. Especially with the mounting system on the Humvee, iron sights impleneted on the HMG, and the calibre of round.

So really, the fog of war is much thicker than anyone thought.

m0ldym1lk · Post by **m0ldym1lk** » 2005-07-12 00:59

PR should take lessons from Red Orchestra's small arms system. I'd be a happy player

Post by **Wolfmaster** » 2005-07-12 08:20

good list! i agree with most of it exept some minor detail that have already been posted here.

keef_haggerd · Post by **keef_haggerd** » 2005-07-13 19:59

good list, but i dont think they can put hand signals in the game, i think the idea is awsome, but i dont think it can be done.

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-07-13 20:21

You could do it in 42... so im gonna guess its possible in bf2. you just link a 'q' command to not make a noise, but to make an animation instead.

42 wuld have the guy raise his hand to his mouth to say 'take cover' or hold up his hand high when he says 'wait', or the famous thumbs up when saying 'roger'

I agree with all of those things, and hope they can all be modded in. espcially momontum of a person, people can turn and spin and get up from lying flat on the ground almost instantly. I think all of the turning and things should be toned down, and it should even take some stamina to change stances.

keef_haggerd · Post by **keef_haggerd** » 2005-07-13 20:27

Figisaacnewton wrote:You could do it in 42... so im gonna guess its possible in bf2. you just link a 'q' command to not make a noise, but to make an animation instead.

42 wuld have the guy raise his hand to his mouth to say 'take cover' or hold up his hand high when he says 'wait', or the famous thumbs up when saying 'roger'

I agree with all of those things, and hope they can all be modded in. espcially momontum of a person, people can turn and spin and get up from lying flat on the ground almost instantly. I think all of the turning and things should be toned down, and it should even take some stamina to change stances.

wow, then it probably is possible, id love to see it in BF2, maybe have Q still be spoken and have some other button be hand signals.

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-07-13 20:49

probably could. havent noticed if peoples mouth's move when they say stuff, i should check that.