Some of the Limitations Needed to Put the Support Class In Its Place

[HABO3]

So I finally got around to using the HK21 LMG today and I have to say that the recoil on it when prone is absolutely RIDICULOUS. I got beat by so many rifleman I dared to challenge. No one better tell me "well you just suck at LMG" because I used to be #1 LMG on vBF2 for a long time and if that doesn't mean anything in Red Orchestra I'm a pretty damn good machine gunner (if I say so myself ) who knows where to deploy and support the team, hell I can even snipe with the MGs too. Anyways, these weapons should have next to zero recoil when prone but I understand that in the current state that would turn the support class into an insta-prone rambo. The goal is to make the support class deadly in the prone position but unweidly during movement and CQB. So I want to put some ideas out to the devs that may be obvious and have already been looked at but just in case here are some things . . .

1. Extra Mouse Look Drag/Lag - LMGs weigh around 20-30 pounds and the difference in weight between LMGs and rifles should be modeled. Look at the difference in turret rotation between the Bradley and the Abrams. The Bradleys turret can slew at higher speed than the Abrams and if the LMGs had this sort of drag effect that occurs when looking around you will not be able to swing your LMG onto a target as quickly as you would with a M4. This makes machine gunners hesitant to stand up and assault which is not their role.

2. High Recoil from Standing/Crouch - NOT high deviation like in vBF2 but you should only be able to handle one controlled burst that jumps the sights around enough that reacquiring the target after each burst becomes a difficult task. Accuracy should be good for 3-5 rounds at a time but if holding down the trigger were to make your aim go wild, people will prefer going prone.

3. Limited Muzzle Sweep When Prone - In real life the bipod only allows the gun to traverse so far. Lock the gun from traversing past a certain point just like the .50 cal on the DPV for instance. Force players to have to pick the gun up a few inches off the ground and redeploy, support class is therefore vulnerable on his flanks because of the 1-2 seconds it takes to redeploy and takes away the ability of the support class to have a 360 degree field of fire which is not realistic at all.

4. Support Players Should Take Longer to Get Up From Prone - Model the strain of having to heave a MG up off the ground when going from prone to crouch or prone to standing. Makes support class vulnerable to grenades since they can not jump up and run from them as easily.

Most likely the engine won't allow these things though.

[Mongolian_dude]

Well, i kick *** with the LMGs.
On AlFaluja Riegon i got KD of 20/1. Yes, i was working with my squad. I took the gold star and got 278 points(not great). This was using the SAW. I went on to come 1st again with the MEC Hk with 18/1 KD ratio.

I agree in things said regarding how long it takes to go prone and how long it takes to get up. Also, the effectivness from different stances.

...mongol...

[Mekstizzle]

Alot of the things you said are limited by the engine, i was gutted when i found out that recoil can't be position specific. In other words you can't do 0 recoil when prone and alot when standing. That's what i heard anyway...

[Maistros]

I love the idea of giving the support a limited FOV in prone.

[$kelet0r]

WP Paas is right - the RPK is simply a more accurate AK with more rounds and LESS recoil - the tradeoff being the increased weight. Same with the SAW - it probably has less recoil than an M4 standing, moving you name it. The trade off is it weights 2 to 3 times as much as an M4.
It's a limited kit AND a lethal weapon - all that should be changed is the recoil to bring it broadly in line with the assault rifles

[Dunehunter]

I kinda like the support class, just because of the amount of fire you can put out, even though I don't hit that much, it allows the rest of my squad to get into position. For example, on that map with carrier/docks/park/mosque, etc., I simple walked to the gas station from the docks, firing at a couple of places where I knew there were hostiles, while the rest sprinted. I only got hit once or twice, while the rest of my squad got there unscathed. I am even willing to ditch my M4 for one.

To sum it up: I think that it's fine as it is, though I wouldn't mind it being a bit more deadly, since I hardly ever see anyone playing it.

[danthemanbuddy]

I like the support kit

But the hk 21 needs some recoil adjustments. I can't fire 2 shots without it jumping up riducoulousy

The saw is perfect.

[Mekstizzle]

You just have to kind of "push the mouse down" to control recoil. Screw taking bursts, i almost always get smacked in between bursts, full auto LMG's all the way.

[=*CLA*=StudMuffin21]

It can be fired from standing, is often used in CQB situations in Iraq as point, and by all means SHOULD dominate at about any "casual" range (5-300m).
{WP}Paas

True. But it is unfortunate that this game does not allow for realistic distances. If it did then snipers should be able to see the entire map.....bombs from jets would destroy half the map, Cobra TV guided missiles would be able to stretch across the longest map in PR. Due to that, modifications have to be made to allow for a proportionate system.

I too believe the accuracy should be very bad while standing, okay while kneeling (for a short time as fatigue will set in), and greatest (as good as any other weapon) while prone. Unfortunately I doubt the BF2 engine will allow for that.

HAB03, I do like all your suggestions, but doubt that most will be able to be implemented .

[dunkellic]

actually, with a no fog hack you could basically see the entire map - but that would increase the load on your system dramatically and also, the maps are kinda small anyway, compared to real life (i mean, karkand = city but it takes you 3 minutes to walk to the other end )