Will you be able to spawn from the squad leader?

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-07-18 23:58

thats true but a drop zone would be very easy to spawn camp.

Medicoris · Post by **Medicoris** » 2005-07-19 00:06

I agree with you there. That's why if there was a flyable C-130 that an Airbourne class could get in and parachute where ever they wanted to would be a lot better.

Also, if you set a static drop point high in the air you could move your parachute (in the way similar to how BF2 has it) to any location you wish. Probably near your sqaudmates, but anywhere if it's high enough. SEALs have been known to travel up to 23 miles from High Altitude High Opening (HAHO) drops. So if it was high enough you'd be able to avoid people camping the drop area.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-07-19 00:11

yeah, maybe not quite a HAHO drop, but it would have to be pretty high up.

also if you were to use a player flyable c130 i think another cool thing to add to that bird (to keep the pilots busy and not just flying racetrack paterns over the battlefield) they could answer the calles of the commander to drop supplies to ground troops

keef_haggerd · Post by **keef_haggerd** » 2005-07-19 23:15

BrokenArrow wrote:yeah, maybe not quite a HAHO drop, but it would have to be pretty high up.

also if you were to use a player flyable c130 i think another cool thing to add to that bird (to keep the pilots busy and not just flying racetrack paterns over the battlefield) they could answer the calles of the commander to drop supplies to ground troops

holy ****, that would be SO awsome, id love to see pilots with more responsibility then just picking up and dropping off troops, and have the supplies have like a 1-2 minute reload time. ooh.

as far as SL go, i think waffen, your off, about having a SL stay back being a wimp, the way my friends and i play is our squad leader goes support class, lays about 15 or so meters from where we are attacking usually closer though, throws out ammo when the squad needs it, and lays down grenade and LMG support fire, just what they should do. while the rest of us have a neverending supply of soldiers fighting the enemy.

butttttt as far as what i think about what should be done for SL, is, first off, youll want to be with a squad in this mod, so teamwork is already there in this mod. so taking away spawning on your SL wont be too bad.

i say this, every squad have a vehicle, this will be their vehicle that they take great pride and care of. this vehicle would hold like 4 people, then if some of your squad was killed or whatever you drive back to main base to pick them up.

also, as everyone has mentioned, we need bigger squads, like 10 at least. Because if not, having tiny 6 man fireteams, i think spawning on your leader would work better.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-07-20 01:30

i dont think the supply should have a reload time, there should be 3-4 crates in the plane, and when they fall out they have to go resupply.

GABBA · Post by **GABBA** » 2005-07-20 04:04

I will be very vexed if this abillity is taken away.

Medicoris · Post by **Medicoris** » 2005-07-20 18:16

I like the supply idea, it'd be fairly cool to fly around and drop supplies to squads as needed. It'd also take a fairly good pilot to drop the supplies where needed. I don't think they should drop 3-4 at time though. It'd be sort of a waste. They'd probably land fairly close to each other, making dropping all of them at once pretty pointless because you'll only need one.

MadMan · Post by **MadMan** » 2005-07-20 20:23

I like the idea of not being able to spawn from the SL and making vehicles and teamwork all the more important.

acadiancrusader · Post by **acadiancrusader** » 2005-07-20 21:32

i like the idea of a HAHA or a HALO drop. but having someone fly it for troop transport and/or supply drops only is a waste of person's time playing the game. why not make it a bot, that constantly flies a predetermined rout, making the individual spawned players decide when and where they drop. if its a bot, you could tie it with the commander's assets or the commander's base. if they are destroyed or capped, the bot ceases to fly it's pre-determined rout. it would force people to play defense every once and awhile.

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-07-21 05:58

I think i might have already said this, but im tired and can't rmember, so im gonna say it again:

whoever heard of pinpoint reinforcements like this? sure its fun for a game where because you have an anti tank rocket, your gun automatically becomes a paint ball gun, but we are talking realism here.

you don't reappeer next to your fire team or squad leader:

if anything, reinforcements would come by helicopter en masse, paradropping is way too innacurate, especially in urban environments

just axe this feature, and let players plan and set up at thier main base, then move out accordingly. this will work best.

DuckCommander · Post by **DuckCommander** » 2005-07-21 15:50

If you cant spawn from SL spawn times will be longer to compsensate wouldnt it?

Medicoris · Post by **Medicoris** » 2005-07-21 21:54

That's true Fig. However, I was picturing the paradropping feature being something more towards being available in wide open maps (if available). Having airbourne soldiers drop in a completely urban setting would not only be dangerous, but also unrealistic in most cases.

Getting rid of spawning next to your squad leader is absolutlely neccesary for realism. I think this thread is more about how we can figure out a way to make travel easier (and of course realistic) with out having to stick with the arcadey style Battlefield 2 system of spawning next to your squad leader.

Personally I think not being able to spawn next to your squad leader will not hinder teamwork at all. It may even prove to make it more vital.

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-07-21 22:01

My philosophy:

You should only be able to spawn at your main base. Spawning next to a person or in the middle of a contested base is stupid, you wouldn't have that happen, you'd have convoy of people come from somewhere else to reinforce that position, not instatnly appear there.

of course some maps may have exceptions, like maps based around para dropping or other things.

Medicoris · Post by **Medicoris** » 2005-07-21 22:56

Aye, that's precisely what I was thinking. If you want to make getting to your squad leader an easier task than running all the way to him, then you have to be smart about it. For example, taking an APC full of soldiers into a dense urban area would be a mistake. Anti-tank missiles could easily destroy you from various ambush points and thus take out your APC quite easily. The smart thing to do would be to let the infantry off outside of the denser part of the urban areas, possibly on the outskirts of the city if possible. Or with open maps, making sure you stay off main roads and bridges would help survivablity.

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-07-21 23:28

Or maybe a BH insertion if they didn't have much AA, or maybe even a HALO insertion if the map was right, and you had the plane.

DuckCommander · Post by **DuckCommander** » 2005-07-22 16:11

Figisaacnewton wrote:My philosophy:

You should only be able to spawn at your main base. Spawning next to a person or in the middle of a contested base is stupid, you wouldn't have that happen, you'd have convoy of people come from somewhere else to reinforce that position, not instatnly appear there.

of course some maps may have exceptions, like maps based around para dropping or other things.

That'd be taking out a vital part of the gameplay. Being able to spawn at captured bases but extending the spawntime would be good enough.

Beckwith · Post by **Beckwith** » 2005-07-22 16:33

squads will get seperated even more easily if they cant spawn at flags
some will get killed and have to find transport and while there on there way the rest wiill be killed and have to travel back to the flags so youll never have the squads together, i think the only time this should aply is it its that MMO type thing somebody had brought up where theres no rounds just a continuos battle where the attackers have to go long distances to fight that might be cool other than that i think it should stay as it is

Post by **Dre** » 2005-07-22 17:16

Let's keep in mind that not allowing certain spawn locations, including the squad lead, will have a negative impact on the "fun factor" and flow of a given map.

It's important to always "fun-check" your ideas for added realism.

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-07-22 17:22

The best way to see which works best is extensive map design and testing, but generally, I'll say that people shouldn't spawn at the base, its very unrealistic to get instant reinforcements right exactly where you want them, they'd have to come from somewhere, and they'd take time to get there.

This makes it so you plan an operation much much better, so you try to get as few casualties as possible, so that you have enough men to hold onto what you just grabbed before reinforcements can arrive (2 minutes about).

Squads get seperated... it happens. If they are killed, then they come back to defend the base with the next reinforcement wave. If its a really problem, it takes 10 seconds to redesign a new squad with those guys not in it.... but I don't think it will cause a problem. If your squad mates die, you don't get them back right when you need them, you're screwed till reinforcements arrive.

Many mods can be used as examples of this, EOD had a bunch of jugle levels where you can't spawn at the most hotly contested bases, it made gameplay way better, DCR has I think every map like this...