Light And Heavy support kit?

[{9thInf}GunnyMeyer]

M249 and M240 is the MOST realistic and probably the most fun choice. Machineguns are fun, assaultrifles that dont stop firing are too, but not nearly as much.

PS, we should make the recoil on the MGs a lot less for supported firing. I mean, when you go prone, don't Machinegunners generally place their left hand on top of the heat shield to keep the barrel from rising? or on the Stock? Either way, the weapon is really hard to use from prone, where it is most useful.

[Mongolian_dude]

M249 and M240 is the MOST realistic and probably the most fun choice. Machineguns are fun, assaultrifles that dont stop firing are too, but not nearly as much.

PS, we should make the recoil on the MGs a lot less for supported firing. I mean, when you go prone, don't Machinegunners generally place their left hand on top of the heat shield to keep the barrel from rising? or on the Stock? Either way, the weapon is really hard to use from prone, where it is most useful.

Im Bad *** with it.
Its fking great CQ and not half as dishonerable as the M4.
But yeah, the bullet deviation right now is fine. Just the recoil when prone needs a change.

...mongol...

[[BiM]Black7]

TRIggS']if anything the heavy would be the M240G not M60. M240G is the Marine-based M240 and uses many types of 7.62 caliber rounds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M240#M240E4.2FM240B

nice i used something simular to that when i did my army time..

[[BiM]Black7]

something that would be nice is a heavy mg, with a secondary mode that makes you use bipod (or something only useble wail prone) that makes recoil go very low.. when you go out of prone it switches back to normal fire mode (more recoil , less accurcy mode)

[Thunder]

deployable heavy machine guns are the way forward baby.

i even started thinking of ways to implement them in game.
but at the moe they are thunders little secrate.


i had my janes GUN RECOGINTION GUIDE yesturday day so i been reading it constantly. and theres tonnes of sutable guns for the MEC and chinese to have.

[MMad]

Eddie Baker']We have modeled a lower-poly GPMG for the UK vehicles, so it wouldn't be too difficult to model the infantry version, and derive from that the M240 weapons. It wasn't a priority because we were trying to get a class/kit limiting system to work...

Well, is it gonna be prioritized now, then?

[$kelet0r]

The main problem I foresee is that gimpys are not operated by one soldier IRL (another reason the javelin was a bad choice compared to the SRAW)
A LMG like the FN minimi is an automatic rifle so is perfect as a restricted kit. A GPMG like the FN mag is so not ideal simply because it takes 2-3 infantry to operate it. So a better compromise would be to replace mounted LMGs from vanilla with mounted GPMGs (PKM, M240 etc.) and leave the LMGs (RPK, M249 etc.) as they are. The MEC Hk23 is a big problem but then anyone who did not foresee problems with arming the MEC with german rifles wasn't thinking of the consequences.

[Eddie Baker]

Black7']something that would be nice is a heavy mg, with a secondary mode that makes you use bipod (or something only useble wail prone) that makes recoil go very low.. when you go out of prone it switches back to normal fire mode (more recoil , less accurcy mode)

Heavy machineguns have to be ground or vehicle mounted, Black7. These are things like the M2 BMG, Russian NSV and others that fire larger than a full-sized rifle cartridge, but aren't large enough to qualify as automatic cannons. And since in the dismount about 4 men have to carry it, they're not going to be found in kits. Medium or general purpose machineguns would be more like what you are suggesting.

Well, is it gonna be prioritized now, then?

Probably not.

The main problem I foresee is that gimpys are not operated by one soldier IRL (another reason the javelin was a bad choice compared to the SRAW)
A LMG like the FN minimi is an automatic rifle so is perfect as a restricted kit. A GPMG like the FN mag is so not ideal simply because it takes 2-3 infantry to operate it. So a better compromise would be to replace mounted LMGs from vanilla with mounted GPMGs (PKM, M240 etc.) and leave the LMGs (RPK, M249 etc.) as they are.

Actually, it takes one gunner to fire and carry medium and GPMGs. The latter are named "general-purpose" because they can be used in both the light machinegun bipod/hip role and in the sustained-fire tripod role of a medium MG. The other member(s) of the MG team are there to carry tripod, extra barrels, ammunition and to spot targets and provide close defense with their rifles.

Unfortunately, with this engine, we cannot make ammunition bags that refill only select types of weapons, or we would be happy to have "machinegun ammo box" or "encased anti-tank missile/rocket" as kit items. So, for an "assistant gunner," you will have to make do with a rifleman with ammunition bags.

The mounted LMGs placed in maps will be eventually be replaced with medium and GPMGs.

[Surround]

PKM is usable with one man. It doesnt need friends to sneeze your noze. Pkm is just little bit clumsy and slow. But its really efective and realible like ak74.

In Finland we always have "fire buddies". With MG man (pkm) there runs one normal guy who has rk-95 and one extra can for mg man. Mg man has PKM and one can with it. It's possible to give the another can for mg man. It just gets really heavy for mg man.

So I say there could be PKM with 2 cans. Just like it is now for support class. mg+2 cans

[Thunder]

could one way of doing this be like the spotted menu where right clicking you could support you could select your support weapon so you could have two to three choices of weapon

[$kelet0r]

Eddie Baker']
Actually, it takes one gunner to fire and carry medium and GPMGs. The latter are named "general-purpose" because they can be used in both the light machinegun bipod/hip role and in the sustained-fire tripod role of a medium MG. The other member(s) of the MG team are there to carry tripod, extra barrels, ammunition and to spot targets and provide close defense with their rifles.

Unfortunately, with this engine, we cannot make ammunition bags that refill only select types of weapons, or we would be happy to have "machinegun ammo box" or "encased anti-tank missile/rocket" as kit items. So, for an "assistant gunner," you will have to make do with a rifleman with ammunition bags.

The mounted LMGs placed in maps will be eventually be replaced with medium and GPMGs.

GPMGs are always employed in teams of at least 2 just like heavy AT missile systems (cough javelin cough). If it is implemented as a restricted kit, the SAW should become unrestricted. A better solution imho would be to keep the current system
So the basic grunt gets an assault rifle
- Spec Ops (lose explosives and parachute, gain suppressed weapons and flashbangs for CQC)
- Rifleman
- Grenadier (needs 2* regular grenades)
- AP rifleman (lose claymores in favour of c4)
- Engineer (should lose wrench and specialise in explosives)
- AT Rifleman (needs one reload)
- Medic

The squad level limited requestable kits (using US as example) would be a
- DMR for the squadleader
- SAW for the gunner
- SRAW for AT
- M24 for sniper
- Stinger

The very limited pickup kits would be
- Anti material rifle
- Javelin
- GPMG
- Pilot with parachute
- Tanker with wrench

[{9thInf}GunnyMeyer]

The Squad Leader should never have a DMR. DMR is just a fancy way of saying really accurate Rifleman. If you give the squadleader the DMR you will just be wasting the kit. Please don't do this, it will kill squad play.

*Edit* Don't take explosives from the SF, because if you do then he loses one of the most important aspects of the kit, to go behind enemy lines and blow up assets.

[Eddie Baker]

GPMGs are always employed in teams of at least 2 just like heavy AT missile systems (cough javelin cough).

Funny, I don't hear you coughing about the Eryx, which also uses a two man crew. The Predator SRAW program has been put on hold indefinitely. It had been put on hold indefinitely before BF2 had come out, it does not function in real-life as it does in the game, and frankly should never have been in the game. The Javelin is going in, and that's final. The squad leader and commander will also NOT have DMRs, which is also final.

[Bob_Marley]

GPMGs are always employed in teams of at least 2

Now thats not entirely true. While there will often be a "number 2" to carry additional barrels and ammuntion (well, frequently the whole squad/platoon will carry extra ammuntion for the squad/platoon level MG) , there is not always and that can be represented by the rifleman class anyway. For example, during the deployment of British troops to Kosovo in the late 1990s (1999?) many units (IIRC, particularly the paras) begged, stole and borrowed as many GPMGs as the could to replace thier L86A1s as section/squad level support weapons.

[Cyber-Couch]

I'll put this on my imaginary wish list that hopefully you choose to prioritize in a heavy mg kit.

[Daedal-Rogue]

Eddie Baker']
We do want to include mortars, but as stated before, realistically (and play-ably) implementing man-portable ones into a kit is very difficult, so they may be limited to fixed positions and vehicles.

Have any of the devs considered contacting another mod team to get assets to acheive some of the goals so you all don't do all the work?

Allied Intent was an amazing mod that was working well and the team decided to stop working on it, a few factors they had you may want to consider is timed C4 bombs, Phosforus Grenades, Deployable Mortars, Gunship versions of the flying cow and blackhawk that could be added to maps for more variety.

You guys have done some amazing work but there are many other teams out there have done work and have given up the work due to the team breaking up, politely ask for the assets and you save yourself alot of work and you'd enrich the playing field with what you can get.

[Eddie Baker]

Have any of the devs considered contacting another mod team to get assets to acheive some of the goals so you all don't do all the work?

Yes. We are already in a consortium of mods- Black Sand Studios.

[A-10Warthog]

yeah right now the m249 has way too much recoil while prone, when prone they have barley any cuz of the bi-pod