7 main Classes - Discussion Thread

Post by **eggman** » 2007-01-08 20:18

An unlimited SAW class will never return to PR.

Two "classes" (and when I say classes I don't mean weapons or ammo loadouts I mean classes) that need some review would be the AP Rifleman and the Spec Ops class.

The Spec Ops class is a bit of an anomaly. There's nothing wrong with an embedded SF operator in my view. But the current M4 has made a previously somewhat maligned and arguably useless class into the "class du jour". The intent of that class was as a light duty, subversive operator .. a bit of a jack of all trades .. master of none sorta thing.

I think the AP Rifleman could be merged with the Engineer quite easily. SLAMs also operate in a remote detonation mode, so giving the Engineer remote detonated SLAMs to replace the AP Rifleman Claymores (which aren't really use much nowadays anyways) would effectively make the Engineer a much more interesting class.

But then you have a 7th free slot and a sensible class needs to be devised to fill that slot. iirc 6 was possible, but had some issues that needing looking at (nothing major, but we'd need to decide if there is a plausible 7th class or if doing the clean up to only have 6 classes is worth it).

wrt the Insurgent classes, we're going to make some incremental changes to them for v0.5 and likely again some more in v0.6. It's an experiment and will require ongoing class, game dynamics and map tweaks to get it right.

You also can't examine the classes in isolation of upcoming game dynamics changes. Version 0.5 and 0.6 are going to have some changes in them that will take PR into some new directions (which some of you will like, some of you won't, but I don't pay my mortgage with PR so er.. I'm not too worried hehe .. we're doing this for learning and fun and trying out new ideas is half the fun of modding).

In v0.5 there are more limitations on access to limited kits. It will not be possible to get *and hold on to for any length of time* any limited kits if you are not in an appropriate sized squad. Snipers require a squad of 2, Marksman require a squad of 3, etc. YES you can invite then kick after you get your kit, but you better not die cuz ppl will probably get sick of being kicked from your squad so you can get a limited kit.

blud · Post by **blud** » 2007-01-08 20:20

I think they are working on classes for 0.5. Might as well save your typing on a thread like this till after 0.5 comes out.

Major Ursa Norte · Post by **Major Ursa Norte** » 2007-01-08 20:44

With respect, there are "scout" soldiers in the real world. No, not merely point men, but a whole force. They are Forward Observers in the US Army and Force Recon in the Marines.

These units are highly trained, move fast and travel light. They are NOT equipped to engage large numbers of enemy. The purpose of F.O. and Recon is to provide "eyes on". They verify intel, spot, conduct subtefuge and act as decoy threats to help mask the main thrust.

These specialty units do exist and do provide a vital role on the battlefield. Their level of training and specialized equipment allow them to operate in the forward theater with little support for extended periods of time.

In the days prior to the Black Berets being upon anyone's head BUT a Ranger, if a US Army soldier wore a beret of any color, he was a Special Operations Soldier. Spec Ops of all kinds are embedded within regular Army units ALL the time. The are temporarily attached to regular units for any number of reasons and often with orders of their own that fall outside of the scope of the regular unit's mission.

If you want to re-vamp the Spec-Ops class, then by all means, do it. But do it for gameplay issues. Spec-Ops are a real and vital part of the millitary and should never be marginalized through uninformed generalizations.

Sorry for the rant, but I have several buds that are special operators and I have lost two in the past 5 years. You will never hear their names read over the newscast, nor will you ever hear of where or how they died. All we will ever know is that they are gone and they died with their boots on and a mouth full of foreign soil.

Teek · Post by **Teek** » 2007-01-09 05:51

I use Spec ops as a SL to mark arty for the commander, The soflam is sweet for that role, as it should. I played Stalemate in where the commander was having a hard time get SL to mark targets and i was board, so i created a Recon squad with the sole purposes of SF designation. The CO would put a Demo beacon where he wanted the strike (he had the best vantage point ever) so id try to spot as close to the smoke beacon as possible without being seen. did that today on Ejod north desert. The M4 is 'a added bonus' Id actually rather have a MP-5SD. maybe a ghillie suite too while im at it...

*shrug*

As for AP riflemen, The binoculars are nice sometimes, and the claymore are cool, but not very practical (maybe some sorta trip wire....hehe)

[BiM]Black7 · Post by **[BiM]Black7** » 2007-01-09 08:54

i rather see spec-op's turn into a recon class with no armor, m16 or m4 unscoped, 2 nades, a laser desitnator + a bino with range meter. If anything this class would be nice and not ower used.

could be a good squad assest just as a good side kick for a sniper

Rusty_FunP · Post by **Rusty_FunP** » 2007-01-12 10:58

Why not merge the AP rifleman and special forces guy for a recon-type soldier, and use the freed slot for proper squad leader with, rifle, pistol, binoculars and lots of smokes. Colored smokes added as extra bonus.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-01-12 11:06

Officer kits are part of v0.5 but are not a base unlimited kit, they are requested like other limited kits.

Surround · Post by **Surround** » 2007-01-12 11:22

Is there any possibility to make the claymore more lethal?

I would like to claymores damage range increased to at least 30m (they can be lethhal up to 75m or 150m [depends on model])

I dont mind the clackers, but I have been trained to tripwire the claymores.
So, is possible make it so that the claymores explode if someone walks 10m in front of them?

I once played as a AP rifleman in OGT. I was playing pla and defending trenches. I put tripwires in the hill, just like I was trained IRL and waited. Then there comes a enemy squad and I was "Wohoo! they are coming straight to my trap!" Then they are walking 5m in front of the mines. I explode the mines and othing hapens. Comon, claymores are supposed to kill. Not just a give a scratch!

I want claymores to be much more lethal. Maybe the tripwire is stupid idea because people just lay the everywhere and that just boring. Nobody would use them professionaly. But if I have only clackers I want them at least be effective!

Rusty_FunP · Post by **Rusty_FunP** » 2007-01-12 11:36

eggman: I hope there will be enough officer kits for every squad, there will be a hell to pay, if the players with low pings and high end computers hog all of them as well

Mekstizzle · Post by **Mekstizzle** » 2007-01-12 12:47

Someone tell me why we need an SF class. If it's to destroy shit. That should be the engineers job. If it's to go behind enemy lines. Firstly, why? Secondly, what use does it have? Just to spawn camp the back flags that aren't in contention? So you basically have a spawn camping class? What's the point?

If you want to kill. Go rifleman, or AP rifleman. Hell any kit can kill infantry. You don't need a CQB specialist. Unless it's a CQB map. NONE of which are right now. Only the SF maps are, like fights in Warlord palace etc...

The only class that isn't played much is the AP class. I don't know why, it can be great at times. Especially on linear non-multiple pathway maps with millions of ladders for no reason whatsoever, like Muttrah.

KP · Post by KP » 2007-01-12 14:27

For us to have more CQB types of situations, we'll probably need more enterable buildings... But I still think the Spec Ops needs a suppressed weapon. Just my opinion, of course.

Post by **Mongolian_dude** » 2007-01-12 14:51

To lessen the base raping, make Hunter the only requestable class for the Insurgents. Also, War vet class seems the best and most O/P MEC class, with its G3 AND additional RPG. Lose the RPG, makes him a way better choice than the mountainer.

KP wrote:For us to have more CQB types of situations, we'll probably need more enterable buildings... But I still think the Spec Ops needs a suppressed weapon. Just my opinion, of course.

Since the spec ops kit is going to be requested, i think it should be allowed. Not TOO good though, how about that good ol' forgman (SAS spec ops skin from BF SF), armed with supressed MP5 and suprpessed M9F2.?

How many spec ops will be allowed to be requested ina 64 player match? i would think 6 would do nicely. Since there are max of 9 squads, 9 requestable squad leaders.

...mongol...

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-01-12 15:38

Once stuff starts blowing up, it's ok if they can hear you. It's being able to get into a position to place the explosives silently that matters.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-01-12 19:23

lol .. hehe I think it's brilliant the misinformation you guys conjur up. BUT would ask that you refrain from doing so.

We've not stated anywhere that the Spec Ops class is going to become a limited kit and have no current plans to do so.

We also are not planning to use the Kit Req system for Insurgents, rather they will have speciality kits made available through weapons caches (pickup kits).