teamwork / vehicle lock debate

MadTommy · Post by **MadTommy** » 2007-01-23 18:06

Determined wrote:You walk a fine line between realism, and annoying. Walking for 5 minutes, getting killed, waiting 30 seconds, walking 5 minutes, getting tked, waiting 31 secoinds. It's not fun.

... mate that is no fun... so don't do it...

Think...why is this happening to you/me? You might need to change to work within PR or dare i utter the words 'go back to .....' (clue; begins with a V).
Don't mean to be so rude but you dont play the same game that i do from what you are saying.

And there is little point to this discussion as we need to try any changes and their effects.

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-01-23 18:10

Agreed MadTommy.

And the "there's no good squads available to join" argument doesn't hold any water. When that happens to me, I *create* a squad.

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-01-23 18:12

His point of about vehcle noises is that you can actually hear them much further away in RL than you can in this game. The gray vehicle can sort of simulate the lack of RL noise. Which is a decent point.

Boats are gray on the map. Is it not unfair that your beach landings are broadcast? Yet your going to lock a jeep? I don't see why this point is going over everyones head.

Realism is leaving "simple" vehicles unlocked. Locking them is unrealistic. Did I just pull the realism card?

wooly-back-jack · Post by **wooly-back-jack** » 2007-01-23 18:15

I was annoyed at first about the spawn die/spawn run die thing at first but I just adapted, dont play it like BF2, dont run around/drive around blindly trying to get loads of flag-caps for points, it wont happen.
Take a flag and defend it, when the next flag is neutralised and you are confident your flag is safe, move up to the next flag and help out.
The amount of times last night both teams were just going round in circles capping north + south bridge getting nowhere, 1 team taking the bridge, the other team going under it and across the river lol.
I just ended up hanging back and defending then catching up with my team later.

http://media.putfile.com/PRMM-31

heres a vid of the fun I had last night, not a willywaving pwnage vid, far from it, Im still learning the game.. but some things clicked with me last night and Ill be playing more often

wooly-back-jack · Post by **wooly-back-jack** » 2007-01-23 18:17

also I noticed last night, my squad leader was on the bridge and I neutralised a flag then died, I spawned on the squad leader again but I was only having to wait 10 seconds? any ideas?

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-01-23 18:18

MadTommy wrote:... mate that is no fun... so don't do it...

Think...why is this happening to you/me? You might need to change to work within PR or dare i utter the words 'go back to .....' (clue; begins with a V).
Don't mean to be so rude but you dont play the same game that i do from what you are saying.

And there is little point to this discussion as we need to try any changes and their effects.

I could certainly tell you where to go as well. The community is allowed to have it's oppinions. This is a REALISM MOD right? What is not real about commanding simple vehicles? Your beating yoursevles up with your own arguments. First its real, then it's not. Now your telling me to go back to Vanilla because I want to keep something that IS real about the game?

Oh and I never made the "good squads" argument. I'm making the something that makes sense argument. Using an abandoned "simple" vehicle has nothing to do with teamwork, squads, commanders, swamp gas on venus, or anything else you want to tag it with. If your gonna lock jeeps, then you should lock boats. If your gonna make an argument for something you can't be inconsistant.

wooly-back-jack · Post by **wooly-back-jack** » 2007-01-23 18:22

I do probably agree with the vehicle thing tbh.
Someone drives up to you in a Vodnik and then jumps in the gunner position and you kill him, why should you be prevented from taxing that vehicle?
If the vehicle was in its origional place at a base then fair enough its in the garage or summat isn't it. If its used as a taxi to get to a flag then discarded you should be able to use it.

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-01-23 18:34

Oh come on man. If you're going to say "sommat", you should at least complete the experience for us by finishing it up properly. "Sommat, innut?" instead of "Sommat, isn't it?" would be most enjoyable. Haha, jk man.

As for the "go back to nilla" comment (which was NOT presented by myself, devs, so please don't up my warning level). He did not say you should go back to vanilla. He said that if you're getting killed, spawning, walking 5 minutes, getting killed, etc., then you should change up your play style. Then he said that if you're NOT WILLING to do this, then vanilla may be the best place for you. I would have to agree with him. Sounds logical, doesn't it?

The main points, Determined, are that:

1) IRL, whether possible or not, you wouldn't see the amount of cross team vehicle use you see now.

2) The gray vehicle thing may not be possible to fix any other way. And I've never gotten the drop on guys by spotting any gray vehicle other than jeep/vodniks.

3) This will force people to actually conserve vehicles, which is the way things are IRL. You don't just grab a hummer, drive 100 m, ditch it, and make your way into the forest. That's extremely unrealistic.

4) As a result of 3, teamwork will be made more necassary.

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-01-23 18:44

I just think your points are weak. Who is to say the jeep was abondoned jsut to run off into the woodline? Again, this has nothing to do with teamwork. Or how the vehicle got to where it is. It's an empty jeep, with a steering wheel and a push button ignition. Oh and it has a very nifty mounted gun which requires no special knowledge to use. Seems reasonable enough to me that one should be able to commandeer it. Particularly if your squad is a long way from it's objective. It is more about what makes sense then anything. If your worries are about the frequency in which this happens, tell your team to stop abandoning their vehicles. Tell them to stop dying while using the vehicles. lol Oh and I have no issue with this style of play. I have not touched vanilla since I redownloaded this mod. I played on a CAL winning team. So it means something that I have not gone back since I started playin this mod.

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-01-23 18:45

Oh, also, wooly-back-jack. I watched your video. Good work on the defence. A couple points about your play style that I think may help you out.

1) When you're just out and about, I find it best to keep your gun on full auto. There were a lot of times you stumbled across guys and engaged them at close range with semi-auto. One of those times you even knew you'd be engaging somebody at close range, at about 1:45. This is pretty dangerous. If you're worried about being able to switch back fast enough to engage targets at range, map your primary weapon key to the middle mouse button (pushing down on your scroll wheel). This is extremely helpful.

2) You had your binocs out when you weren't using them, approaching an enemy held bunker. Probably a bad idea, as an enemy could pop out at any time, and you want to be able to engage them instantly.

3) After you tossed a nade (around 1:40), you kept the nade out to reload a second, even though the area was still potentially hostile. Personally I wouldn't want to be defenseless for that period of time, and would wait for a quiet period to take my nade out and reload. But then you tossed the second nade in the same place as your first one. This probably wasn't necassary, and was maybe a waste of a nade. Finally, when you were going to toss that first nade, did you know that dude was going to be coming through the smoke like that? Because you're really luckily he didn't see you and start blasting. I would have engaged him with my gun if I knew he'd be coming.

4) That thing you did with the claymores.... what was that? Are the blasts of the claymores so directional that that won't hurt you? Was the idea that you'd wait there until you saw someone come around the corner or got shot at (as happened) and then blow them? I only ask because I've never seen that done before. Very interesting tactic. Did you come up with that yourself or see it done elsewhere? Interesting solution to the problem of capping the flag, so you have to be near a priority target, and expose yourself to 180 degrees of likely fire.

Anyways, it's just meant to be constructive feedback. Take it or leave it of course.

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-01-23 18:47

Determined wrote:If your worries are about the frequency in which this happens, tell your team to stop abandoning their vehicles. Tell them to stop dying while using the vehicles.

Yes, well unfortunately people only understand incentives. I always tell my team stuff like:

"Don't be a tard with the armor"
"Don't whore the M4"
"If you're going to get the DMR, support your squad"
"Stop base raping or intentionally leaving the last flag uncapped so you can spawn rape."

Unfortunately they just don't listen.

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-01-23 18:51

Speaking of annoying things. I noticed a strange phenomena with this game. Medics don't revive. I mean in vanilla it was hard to get a pubber to pull out his paddles, but I can't tell you how many times a medic has walked over my body in this mod. It's just something that struck me the other day. Obviously if you have good squad members it's a non issue. Just seems that there are a lot less good samaritans in this game. lol

=NAA=Spaztik_Ferret · Post by **=NAA=Spaztik_Ferret** » 2007-01-23 21:08

No , that is not the case. If you just got shot, that medic is probably not willing to risk his neck attempting to revive you (since we all know that in PR it may take a few attempts) before killing the guy who killed you first. Or if he is under fire his first priority is to engage the enemy first, secure the area, and revive last. I can not stress the improtance of this, how many times have you been shot by a well hidden enemy only to be revived and killed again by the same enemy, but this time he takes out your medic in the process?

Determined: by your low post count I can only assume you are somewhat new to this mod, or you don't post much on here. Log in some hours as medic and you'll know exactly why that happens. I'm not trying to be critical, you might have had some bad teammates, but for the most part, in this game and community a medic is not going to simply ignore you if he has nothing else going on.

Oh and defibs do run out of charge here too.

MadTommy · Post by **MadTommy** » 2007-01-23 21:17

Determined.. as wasteland said (ta m

i didn't want to tell you to go back to vanilla, i just could not resist making the point that you seem to need to adapt. I apologise, a wee bit below the belt.

On the realism issues, this is a mine field, it would seam, I personally dont give a rats *** about Realism, i want a fun game, and the realism indroduced into BF2 by prmm makes it 2000% better. And this helps promote teamplay, if they bend the rules of Realism to what; works, they can achieve and promtes squad play then two thumbs up from me.. just my two pence worth.

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-01-23 21:24

=NAA=Spaztik_Ferret wrote:No , that is not the case. If you just got shot, that medic is probably not willing to risk his neck attempting to revive you (since we all know that in PR it may take a few attempts) before killing the guy who killed you first. Or if he is under fire his first priority is to engage the enemy first, secure the area, and revive last. I can not stress the improtance of this, how many times have you been shot by a well hidden enemy only to be revived and killed again by the same enemy, but this time he takes out your medic in the process?

Determined: by your low post count I can only assume you are somewhat new to this mod, or you don't post much on here. Log in some hours as medic and you'll know exactly why that happens. I'm not trying to be critical, you might have had some bad teammates, but for the most part, in this game and community a medic is not going to simply ignore you if he has nothing else going on.

Oh and defibs do run out of charge here too.

You kill me. While I may be new to the forums(work was slow today), I am not new to the game. Trust me. Let this be a message to all PR players. YOu can use your defib to revive me. Oh and you can pick up a fallen meidics kit and use his defib. Don't do this in the open or under fire, you will only stat pad me and get yourself dead real fast. Just a public service announcement.

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-01-23 21:28

MadTommy wrote:Determined.. as wasteland said (ta m i didn't want to tell you to go back to vanilla, i just could not resist making the point that you seem to need to adapt. I apologise, a wee bit below the belt.

On the realism issues, this is a mine field, it would seam, I personally dont give a rats *** about Realism, i want a fun game, and the realism indroduced into BF2 by prmm makes it 2000% better. And this helps promote teamplay, if they bend the rules of Realism to what; works, they can achieve and promtes squad play then two thumbs up from me.. just my two pence worth.

Which is why I hate it when someone plays the realism card.

Anyway, pointing my weapon at somebody and killing them makes PR a thousand times more fun than BF2's random cone of BS. I can't tell you how amazed I am at the response of the weaponry in this mod. It's a testament to the hard work the devs have put into it. I can play with a 120 ping in a Euro server and still nail people over 150 meters away with one or two shots. In BF2 with that ping your lucky to kill someone 15 feet away with 30 rounds.

I'm just gonna be pissed when I can't hop in that lonely jeep I just killed the gunner out of.

Leo · Post by **Leo** » 2007-01-23 21:36

Determined, I didn't read the whole thread (kinda gets repetative), but if you don't want to walk the whole way, you could always suicide, or put on auto-pilot and alt-tab out.

wooly-back-jack · Post by **wooly-back-jack** » 2007-01-23 21:45

JP*wasteland.soldier wrote:Oh, also, wooly-back-jack. I watched your video. Good work on the defence. A couple points about your play style that I think may help you out.

1) When you're just out and about, I find it best to keep your gun on full auto. There were a lot of times you stumbled across guys and engaged them at close range with semi-auto. One of those times you even knew you'd be engaging somebody at close range, at about 1:45. This is pretty dangerous. If you're worried about being able to switch back fast enough to engage targets at range, map your primary weapon key to the middle mouse button (pushing down on your scroll wheel). This is extremely helpful.

2) You had your binocs out when you weren't using them, approaching an enemy held bunker. Probably a bad idea, as an enemy could pop out at any time, and you want to be able to engage them instantly.

3) After you tossed a nade (around 1:40), you kept the nade out to reload a second, even though the area was still potentially hostile. Personally I wouldn't want to be defenseless for that period of time, and would wait for a quiet period to take my nade out and reload. But then you tossed the second nade in the same place as your first one. This probably wasn't necassary, and was maybe a waste of a nade. Finally, when you were going to toss that first nade, did you know that dude was going to be coming through the smoke like that? Because you're really luckily he didn't see you and start blasting. I would have engaged him with my gun if I knew he'd be coming.

4) That thing you did with the claymores.... what was that? Are the blasts of the claymores so directional that that won't hurt you? Was the idea that you'd wait there until you saw someone come around the corner or got shot at (as happened) and then blow them? I only ask because I've never seen that done before. Very interesting tactic. Did you come up with that yourself or see it done elsewhere? Interesting solution to the problem of capping the flag, so you have to be near a priority target, and expose yourself to 180 degrees of likely fire.

Anyways, it's just meant to be constructive feedback. Take it or leave it of course.

1) didnt even realise I had a full-auto option lol (apart from with the lmg) just press whatever number the rifle is again to select it?

2)yeah I knew I was being a bit silly, I figured if I seen a figure whilst running I could prone and spot them. That and I just wanted to show the ace binos in the vid

3)I was wasteful with that 2nd nade and no I never seen him running through the smoke at 1st, I was just tossing a nade in incase I didnt get the first bloke with lmg.

4) the claymores was an experiment, I know in BF2 and SF they only harm you one way so I thought I'd try that and it worked, as soon as I was shot at just press the trigger lol

Desertfox · Post by **Desertfox** » 2007-01-23 22:43

Determined wrote:Speaking of annoying things. I noticed a strange phenomena with this game. Medics don't revive. I mean in vanilla it was hard to get a pubber to pull out his paddles, but I can't tell you how many times a medic has walked over my body in this mod. It's just something that struck me the other day. Obviously if you have good squad members it's a non issue. Just seems that there are a lot less good samaritans in this game. lol

I was playing mao valley yesterday and I was launching M203's from bravo to blackhawk wreck (I got like 8 kills

) I got shot, went into the bunker and did "Q > Need a Medic!" I was so freaking surprised when I saw 3 medics run into the bunker at the same time with there med packs out!!!!!

jackal22 · Post by **jackal22** » 2007-01-23 23:13

got to admit thats another point, by the very reason people are claiming vehicles should be locked boats should too and there is no argument you can say to counter that if you want vehicles locked.

and ghost train is a dam walking mod map, who ever said its only small were you playing 16 player or something?!?

edit: i dont really see the medic issue that much, it just depends where your playing and on what server. generally the city maps are no-medic affairs because half the team is m4, and its suicide to stop prone and zap most of the time.