The M16 is ****

18Zulukiller · Post by **18Zulukiller** » 2007-02-16 13:10

LoL now I've got peoples attention I'd like to make a suggestion for the US side. In my honest opinion the M16 is an alright weapon when facing the MEC or Insurgents (they balance each other out) but when it comes to fighting the Chinese its seriously lacking compared to there rifles. The PLA rifles have optic scopes semi, burst and full auto the USMC only gets semi, burst fire and iron sights its not exactly fair IMHO. So what i suggest is to change the sides slightly so instead of it being the USMC v China how about changing it to the US army or US A.F. v China. And giving the US army/US A.F. a different weapon load out of say :-

Special forces = Scar variant
Riflemen = M4A1 with scope
Riflemen anti personnel = M4A1 with scope
Combat engineer = M4A1 with iron sight or shotgun
Medic = M4A1 with iron sight
Rifleman Antitank = M4A1 with iron sight
Grenadier = M16 with m203 iron sight

Officers kit = M4A1 with scope
Other pick up kits keep the same

I'm only suggesting this because of balance, because in game as the Chinese (when against the USMC) I'm literally massacring people but as the USMC I'm seriously struggling unless i take the SF class regular. I've also noticed a lot of the top players (k/d ratio wise) on the USMC side tend to sway a lot more to the SF class on the servers i play on (unless sniper or in armour).

p.s. sorry if this has been already covered i did a search but was there nothing.

Gyberg · Post by **Gyberg** » 2007-02-16 13:19

There is a M16A4 on the way, and there will be scoped versions for the riflemen. (Devs am I right?)

Mekstizzle · Post by **Mekstizzle** » 2007-02-16 13:36

For the damage the M16 does, the recoil really isn't worth it - just stay away from it, by the time you've adjusted the recoil from the first two shots to get the final killer shot - you're dead or the target has escaped. I tend to use the M249 SAW or M14 now whilst USMC. With the former usually always being available.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2007-02-16 13:50

Aljen · Post by **Aljen** » 2007-02-16 13:55

Mekstizzle wrote:For the damage the M16 does, the recoil really isn't worth it

Yes I agree. Its harder to fight with m16 then it was in 0.4 at least it seems like it to me.
But maybe I am only getting older and my hands shake more

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-02-16 14:09

I've never been able to use the M16 - I hate it beyond words

Jonathan_Archer_nx01 · Post by **Jonathan_Archer_nx01** » 2007-02-16 14:28

M16 has as high rate of fire as M4 (900 rpm). But the sound is strange. It sounds like 600rpm. And people then use it as if it was 600 rpm - that's the problem!
And as I mentioned the recoil of L85 and M16 is quite real but the recoil of G3 is too low.
Same with AK-47.

{GD}StevenGarcia · Post by **{GD}StevenGarcia** » 2007-02-16 14:51

I always switch kits with the first dead MEC medic I come across. The M16 is no match for a G3 on semi.

27BaLLs · Post by **27BaLLs** » 2007-02-16 15:03

Wow I can't believe people hate the M16 that much. I use that gun every chance I get. The recoil is bad on the gun if you fire in burst, but single shot is dead on. If you get into a fire fight with me, I am shooting you in the face no questions asked.

DirtyHarry88 · Post by **DirtyHarry88** » 2007-02-16 15:17

Burst fire is now useless unless in very close combat.

18Zulukiller · Post by **18Zulukiller** » 2007-02-16 15:39

Well its nice to know the M16A4 is getting added does that happen to have full auto BTW ???.

EDIT: I only mentioned the M4 because from what ive read its being highly used in the US services according to one website i read the US airforce has/is completely phasing out the M16 and replacing it with the M4. Although on my travels reading up on the net the USMC still uses the M16 a heck of alot thats why i was suggesting replacing the USMC with the US Army or US Airforce then you get to keep realism & balance which makes this mod rule.

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2007-02-16 16:00

need to tone down the recoil on the M16, and is that the previous sound we had in 0.3?
the G3 is fine now, DONT touch it (unless adding a UGL or Scope

)

Jimmy_Smack · Post by **Jimmy_Smack** » 2007-02-16 16:03

hmm...I think I would notice if I was holding a steaming pile of **** in my hands.

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2007-02-16 16:04

http://realitymod.com/forum/showthread. ... hot+recoil and for those to lzy to click! heheheeeeeeee

After the low recoil of .4 compared to .3, .5 has increased the recoil of a number of weapons for both single shot, burst and automatic fire.

In general, this change has been recieve very well by players (my self included) due to the increased requirement to take time to aim, general improvement in realism overall and balance.

However not all the recoils in .4 had a negative affect on realistic gameplay. The main example being the lower (compared to .3) single shot recoil on all assult rifles. This enabled players to fire both quickly but stil remain a decent level of accuracy in single shot mode. This inturn enable players to put down sustained suppressing fire becuase of the combinattion of high accuracy and continued fire made sticking your head up suicidal. This is turn, when combine with squad co-ordination made it possible to suppress the enemy with a great deal of ease and flank them. This tactic being at the heart of all modern warfare - should be encourage through gameplay mechanichs/features.

In .5 it appears specificaly for the M16 that the recoil is identical to .3 for both single shot and burst. This equates to an overall fairly significant increase in recoil for the weapon. The G3 also had an increase but this reflects the high powered round it fires, namely the 7.62mm.

This does seem appropriate when most other weapons recieved an increase in recoil HOWEVER 1) when directly compared to the new chinese assult rifle and 2) supressing fire tactic commented above, one questions this increase in recoil

1) The chinese rifle, i believe (but please correct me) fires a calibre round identical or very similar to the M16, however in game, it appears to have much less recoil when fire in single shot mode compared to the M16 in single shot mode. So why is this so, is my judgement wrong, is their a realistic reason due to the rifles design OR does one rifle actualy have too little or too much recoil???????

2) THe increase in recoil has meant that sustained single shot fire is much less accurate and the rate at which accurate fire can be put down is hugely less. This has inturn has meant putting down effective (not suppressing fire, but effective suppressing fire - does its job) has become amazingly more difficult. Therefore this inturn has meant the suprress and flank tactic significantly harder use - BAD NEWS!!!!!

I also realise the decreased in Support recoil has enabled suppressing fire to be put down more accurately by 1 man. But why the decrease in recoil for this weapon? Well becuase this reflects the fact that in real life they have stands/biopods of some kind to stabalize the weapon while firing in automatic mode when resting on top of an object. The BF2 engine can no fully simulate 2 different iron site recoils (what you see move) so a balance must be found, reflecting the ablity to lay down sustained but reasonably accurate fire while prone (.4 failed however .5 recoil enables such to happen).

But, 1 support per squad is generaly the max you can have. Therefore squads rely heavily on the standard assult rifle for suppressing fire. But in the case of the M16, it can not be fully relied upon to do so.

So inconclusion i ask that the Developers consider decreasing the M16 recoil to equal to .4 levels or greater but less than .3 levels.

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-02-16 16:07

18Zulukiller wrote:Well its nice to know the M16A4 is getting added does that happen to have full auto BTW ???.

EDIT: I only mentioned the M4 because from what ive read its being highly used in the US services according to one website i read the US airforce has/is completely phasing out the M16 and replacing it with the M4. Although on my travels reading up on the net the USMC still uses the M16 a heck of alot thats why i was suggesting replacing the USMC with the US Army or US Airforce then you get to keep realism & balance which makes this mod rule.

The US army will be featured on some maps. But they will have the M4, not the M4A1. Also, the M16A4 dosent have full auto either, it has the same trigger group as the M16A2. Aside from special forces US troops will not have assault rifles with full auto because in real life they dont have assault rifles with full auto.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-02-16 16:08

Solution = Aim for the head.

dunkellic · Post by **dunkellic** » 2007-02-16 16:11

sorry, but one question:
you´ve said that you dont have any problems taking on the mec with an m16 but the chinese - so you do imply that the mec rifles are as bad as the american ones right now, still you don´t care for them?

xiso · Post by **xiso** » 2007-02-16 16:29

The 5,56 cal in 0.5 got more recoil and less dmg.
Its annoying .. often u get one hit from a G3. Sorry im German and i know how crappy this fucking gun is ^^. We sell it in the whole world, because the soldiers in our defence forces aim to the right to hit a soldier left to the target.. and thats on 100 meters

.
It was the idea of 5,56 to create a projectile with lesser recoil and less dmg than the 7,62 .. but with more effectiness in battle, because you can fire from any position.
I love the L85 and M16 or M4.. but the M4 is a piece of **** .. the single shots had a recoil of a M82

Pls find a middle between 0.4 and 0.5 .. in 0.4 the M4 was overpowered.. but in my opinion the M16 and L85 was great !
But at all i wait for the new update and your edits

Wipeout · Post by **Wipeout** » 2007-02-16 16:42

I have better luck with the M16 burst then M16 semi.. I know how to control the climb and with the M16 in burst your more prone to treat it like a fully auto M4. In semi you use it more like a sniper rifle..

18Zulukiller · Post by **18Zulukiller** » 2007-02-16 16:52

'[R-PUB wrote:dunkellic']sorry, but one question:
you´ve said that you dont have any problems taking on the mec with an m16 but the chinese - so you do imply that the mec rifles are as bad as the american ones right now, still you don´t care for them?

I'd honestly say there reasonably balanced if you compared them not great on the M16 part (burst is terrible even at closish range) but reasonable as maps are still very playable using them. I just honestly think the M16 v the PLA rifle is a bit unfair i can honestly burst fire at mediumish range with the PLA rifle and be pretty accurately. However at the same sort of ranges the M16 would hit everything but the target.

Hmm its really hard to explain in burst mod with the Qbz (is it the Qbz?) as I'm firing a burst i can pull my mouse down while firing a burst (try and adjust for the recoil) and still be sort of accurate. With the M16 though the bullets seem to go out sideways (like the cone of fire in vbf2) but not as up as much so with the bullets going out either side there's no way to compensate hrrrr i hope you get what i mean.