Squad Leading

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2007-02-17 17:51

I'm not an amazing squad leader but if you want to really do well, work with the team. Even if there is a lack of intercommunication you should pay attention to the movements of friendly squads to know what your squad should do. Always have good communication with your squad and try to let them know your current objective and how you plan on going about it. If you have a good commander obey his orders and keep good communication with him as well. Lastly, don't put your rally points out in the open or do things that lead to your death constantly.

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-02-17 19:30

When making a squad, give it a name describing your aspirations of that squad. F.example: BringBeer. Practise one-liners. Do "sarcasm", but do it well. Be polite, but consistent. Be curious - "if I blow that thing up? How high will it fly?"

Jokes aside. Before you "become" a leader, take your time and decide what kind of a leader you want to be. Do you want to be strict military dude? Or the more easy-going funloving dude? If you get that straight, and lead by that example, then they will follow.

Oh, you could become the most popular SL ever in history if you do something outrageous.

Merc248 · Post by **Merc248** » 2007-02-17 19:42

Awesome advice guys, that pretty much answers my question

I really appreciate it, I'll probably try my hand again at leading later today or whatever.

Poi_Medic · Post by **Poi_Medic** » 2007-02-18 03:44

Well, if i where you, i would take a role of a soldier first before you do SL role. Better to know how it feels like to be comanded by a SL before trying it out ur self.

casualtyUR · Post by **casualtyUR** » 2007-02-18 04:05

In PR .5 all squad leaders should give up the Spec Ops kit and become a Officer.

This last week only myself and a few others are creating rally points. In one map the enemy destroyed all our base rally points and no squad leader had set up rally points for their squads. We lost.

I say again, set up rally points, it's too easy for the enemy to prevent the other team from spawning.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2007-02-18 04:08

Here is some common sense stuff to know.

1. DON"T GET A KIT THE SL DOESN"T ASK FOR !!!!!!!!!!!
Lol, I always get a kick out of guys who have to switch kits every time they die instead of sticking with one the squad needs because they were killed once and think that getting a sniper is going to kill the sniper that killed them or they need another kit to kill someone.
Please people, stick with a kit the squad needs, and whore that kit up.

2. Here are the kit layouts for an effective squad.

*Infantry/ Heavy Armor
- 1x SL-Officer Kit
- 2x Medics(always, 1 for SL, 1 for squad. Remember, they can still fight as well, so don't be reluctant to be a medic.)
- 1x Heavy AT/1x Light AT
- 1x Rifleman(stick with the AT)

or

*Infantry/Light Armor(apcs/vehicles)
- 1x SL-Officer Kit
- 2x Medics(remember, always or your squad will not be alive for long)
- 1x Light AT
- 1x Rifleman
- 1x Designated Marksman or 1x Light AT

Remember guys, Spec Ops, Engineers, and Snipers are useless to the squad. They are not required, and all the kits above can do what they can do, but
10x better.

And if you have a problem with this, why are you joining the squad called "Teamwork" or "VOIP" or "Tactics" ???
Squads are not there to cater to your DMR or Sniper needs, or for your personal spawn, but to get the job done. Doing what you want and not what the SL needs doesn't help the squad and allows you to be kicked from the squad for it.

3. Don't question your SL, but do. There is a reason why you can be shot for not following orders in the military or the like, because you can cause the life of others. If your SL tells you to go, then GO!!!!
Don't stand there and think about it or look for an enemy to kill, but just do what he does quickly and without question and you will get things done.

*Example
Had a guy in an apc on the squad today, and we were getting shot by a sniper. I threw the greensmoke and told him he was behind the rock(even placed an attack point) and said to shoot him and attack, but he said he didn't see him, so we just kept getting shot and killed until another squad got to the spot and took him out.

*Example 2
Told people to "GO" and to "MOVE" towards the flag "NOW", and they wait there while I crouch and cover them and am trying to hold back to not be killed, and it seems like they want for me to go in first, when I am the SL. What is up with that??? Don't wait for the SL, just go in, clear the area, and cap the flag.

4. "YOU DO NOT HAVE TO KILL EVERY ENEMY YOU SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
This is a biggy for me. If I tell you to get on the flag to cap the flag when a million enemies are running around, it is because we have a better chance holding on a centralized point with actual cover, then spreading out for 1 or 2 guys.

-Trust me, if you get the flag neutral, they will come to you, and then you can find what direction their rally point is. You are playing ring around the rosy if you try to kill every enemy you see without taking the flag.

-Also, if you guys are moving covertly and the enemy does not see you, do not shoot him. Let him go, because it isn't worth it to get one guy on your trail who could be another SL or a Commander.

-Don't stop and shoot someone while crossing a street. Proning in the middle of a street=death. Get across the street, then get to a corner and kill the enemy. Also, use your smoke. That is what it is for.

5. "MOVE TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!"
This is another biggy. If you do not want to be killed or picked off one by one, run together while you are crossing a street. Trust me, a sniper or one infantryman will have a hard time picking which one to shoot if you all move together because he will see one, and then aim for the other out of fear of being shot. Once you get across the street, then you can shoot him.

6. Do not worry about what other squads are doing. I see this a lot, and say, "Don't worry about it." It is the SLs job, not yours. Just worry about killing the enemy.

Read these, and take these to note. Also, I invite anyone to join my squad whoever can even do these remotely so that I can help them out. You do not have to be pro, but at least follow the majority of my orders to some degree and spawn on me and we will get the job done.

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-02-18 04:30

Battlefied awareness helps too.

- It's good to be familar with the maps (After a new map is added, I normally start a local server and walk around a bit). This way, you know all the good little routes you can take.

- Got to know what flags you can and cannot take. Can't tell you how many squads I see trying to cap a flag they can't cap.

- If you have a commander, make sure you use the assets such as artillery, supplies and such. Can't tell you how many times I told an SL to use the darn artillery.

- Got to know where your opponents are. I personally always point out where I've spotted enemies. Normally I'll say something like "Hostiles to the Southeast" or "Tank coming up the South road" over VOIP.

That's my input on it.

DaedalusAI1 · Post by **DaedalusAI1** » 2007-02-18 05:46

I'm pretty new to it also. I usually like to support a squad with a good squadleader. Recently though I have joined a few servers and found that the open teams SL's aren't communicating so I am trying to step up.

Some things I found that help are...

1. At the start of map say what kits you need and ask who wants to get them. If no one wants a specific kit then tell someone to get it.
2. A sniper on your squad can be a lot of help. He can inform you of advancing troops and cover a large open area with minimal support.
3. Have a plan at start of map. Everyone else on a pub server is looking to get a high score. I like to get to a forward flag that you can't capture yet and prevent the enemy from taking it, effectively stopping their advance while the rest of the team captures the points up to that one.
4. Take out enemy rally points before you worry about capturing the flag. Clear the area. No point capturing if the just keep coming at you.
5. Do things that will help yout team by taking out strategic bridges, (stopping advance of enemy armour)
6. Defend when the other squads aren't. If you are woried about score,your squad will rack up a ton of points just by doing that. All the other flags will probably get recaptured, but the spot you are defending will prevent the other team from crushing your team.
7. Tell people to spread out. People feel safer next to others but one grenade will take you all out.
8. Use your binoculars!!??

I like them. Lets me inform my troops of advancing enemies or snipers
9. You don't have to be right on the flag to defend it if you are watching the direction of enemy approach. A lot safer to stay off the flag since i'm sure other people call for arty and toss grenades also before going to clear the flag.
10. Tell people to use their grenades and smoke to clear and move up. People seam to forget they have them.

I'm still working to do all these things better, but I know they are important as well as what other people on this post say.

causticbeat · Post by **causticbeat** » 2007-02-18 08:22

- VOIP COM
- KIT DISCIPLINE
- MAP KNOWLEDGE

all three are necesary.

Nephrmuus · Post by **Nephrmuus** » 2007-02-18 14:44

A lot of good ideas here (I'm still a relatively newbie squad leader, but am starting to get the hang of it). Nevertheless, I've some thoughts of my own to add to the discussion, which you may or may not find useful to your style of play. If my suggestions don't suit you, then don't use them ;P

On creating a "serious" squad:

As people have said above, when creating a serious squad, make sure it has a name that conveys your plans for it: I use "VOIP/TMWK", but "VOIP only", "TEAMWORK", "TACTICS", "MIC ONLY", etc. all seem good.
Make sure that you aren't created as squad 1 (or even squad 2 or 3 on larger servers, especially if there isn't a high teamwork ethic on that server). Most players will join the first squad with a place, but you are trying to attract players that would want to be in your type of squad. Just leaving off creating your squad a few seconds at the start of a round usually allows alpha and beta squads to get created before you. Obviously, this can backfire and lead to you not having enough of any type of player, but overall, I find that this tactic helps me get a better overall squad commitment.
If you see another person create a "teamwork" squad, before you make yours, then consider joining that squad instead of creating a fresh one. On most public servers that I've seen, even with 64 players online, it is rare to find 12 team-players at once.

On squad leadership:

Definitely use VOIP, but back it up with the standard SL orders icons if you can. I like to use the order icons for general commands and VOIP for micro-management. Placing actual defence icons in particular, after assaulting a position can help to prevent squad-wander if you want to continue in defence (rather than that you just haven't decided to attack somewhere else).
Be decicive: A good decision now is better than a brilliant decision later on.
Stick to your guns: Don't completely change your plan unless you really need to; instead try to adapt your plan to circumstances. For example, if you find a direct assault on a CP too hard, then consider harrying the defenders from a distance to pin them down and/or asking the commander for reinforcements, don't just run off to another CP which could be just as well defended. As a squad member, I hate having to run about like a maniac and it makes me feel that my squad leader is not in control. I've found this problem with indecisiveness to be a particular problem with commanders even more than squad leaders. Ultimately, though, knowing when to change your mind is a very difficult skill to learn and I often make the wrong decision in hindsight.
If you often have to run back from an assault to retake rear positions that are being overrun, then consider defending those positions in the first instance. Sadly, if you are the only tactical squad on your side, you need to be the one taking control of the battlefield - everyone likes to attack, but the team often needs you to defend (OK, I started a thread on this very topic, though it got a very mixed response).
If you are moving into unknown territory, consider asking your commander to give you real-time spotting on the enemy positions. Commanders can't use the UAV or auto-spotting command ("Q"->"spotted") in PR, but they still have an eye in the sky and should be able to see a lot more hostiles on the ground than you. As a commander I always give this sort of information out when I can, though it does require a talkative commander, so don't expect it from all of them...
Due to poor situational awareness on the battlefield, when giving commands it can help to use compass bearings (North, NE, etc) and to reference landmarks. I find that using the static (non-spinning) mini-map makes this easier. Often saying "left" and "right" isn't very helpful, since your squad don't immediately know which way you are looking (OK, they can look for you on the minimap and see which way you are looking, but by the time they do this, you could have turned to another direction). The exception would be if you are giving commands to crew in the same vehicle as you (when clock-face directions work well. E.g. "12 O'clock" for ahead and "6 O'clock" for behind).

***EDIT***

Try to explain your decisions, be open to counter-suggestions from the squad and ask politely for people to follow your orders, especially if you are in a pick-up squad. However, don't be afraid to kick those who ignore your orders without offering up a better suggestion. Although strict military disciple would be the ideal state, remember that you are a self-declared squad leader and need to gain respect before you can expect devotion from your squaddies. I'm not saying that a clan-squad with a squadleader who is well-known to be skilled can't be more militaristic (this isn't the same as a squadleader who rightly or wrongly believes that they are good at the job), just that you can't reasonably expect strangers to trust you implicitly.

Jarek Mace · Post by **Jarek Mace** » 2007-02-18 17:50

Some smart general geezer once said....

All the planning in the world counts for nothing once battle commences, the most important ability is flexibility.

Always be prepared to change your whole strategy, don't be a mule head. If a route is too heavily defended, guide your squad round it.
Engage the enemy only when you have to, or your in a superior position (ambush), the control points are primary objective, kills secondary.

I don't think voip is essential, although it helps with some players/situations.
I have run squads using only the SL waypoint system (no voip)
I find most players respond well to using their own initiative, as a SL I only direct the squad route/objective, the team members have enough savvy to deal with the rest 90% of the time.

There are exceptions, and without voice if you have inexperienced squad members your going to get really hurt.

I don't believe in having to explain my choices to a squad, thats political and a waste of time. If I am not getting/giving results, feel free to leave the squad, ill accept my game was off if it was, and analyse why after, it does happen.

I primarily follow the commanders directives, I will only deviate in a few circumstances.
1. The commander appears AWOL
2. The commander IS AWOL
3. the commander is an ********

Initial kit rollouts should be based on the scenario and differ for each map, again it comes down to the flow of battle and being able to adapt (good squad members know this), there will be times you need 4 AT/rpg guys and times you will need a full squad of run n gunners, other times other combos.

Part of my job as SL is to get the rally point active when/where a class switch is needed, it's the squad members job to realise we will not be able to kill a tank with his sniper rifle, and most do eventually

I am not SL god, I have a lot to learn and do learn new things almost everytime I play.

My biggest SL gripe, squad members discharging weapons for no reason.
you are giving away your squads position!

My biggest SL pleasure, enemy squad members discharging their weapons for no reason.

I do use skype (voice) with 3 regular squad members.

Reading through these posts, there are a few differing ways to lead a squad, do I think one way better than another? nope this is just how I do it.

So if you don't use mic and want to join my squad, your welcome, but ill expect you to be able to use your own initiative as you work WITH your fellow squad members.

Merc248 · Post by **Merc248** » 2007-02-19 11:46

So... I finally got myself into a lot of squad leading stuff. I employed a couple of suggestions, mainly using absolute compass directions, telling people to use a certain kit, talking A LOT over VOIP in order to micromanage orders, and being as flexible as possible.

It worked perfectly (in most cases.) I plan on leading more squads on Gloryhoundz WEST in the future...

Esso · Post by **Esso** » 2007-02-19 12:26

Hx.Clavdivs wrote:When making a squad, give it a name describing your aspirations of that squad. F.example: BringBeer. Practise one-liners. Do "sarcasm", but do it well. Be polite, but consistent. Be curious - "if I blow that thing up? How high will it fly?"

Jokes aside. Before you "become" a leader, take your time and decide what kind of a leader you want to be. Do you want to be strict military dude? Or the more easy-going funloving dude? If you get that straight, and lead by that example, then they will follow.

Oh, you could become the most popular SL ever in history if you do something outrageous.

LoL Beer is the key if there are Hx. players in our Squad.

Don´t greate your Squad in the first seconds befor the Map starts. Give him a Name like VOIP and greate it after a couble of Squads are open.

The "I only join a Squad for Special kits player" will join the first Squads and this kind of Player you don´t need inside your a Teamwork VOIP Squad.

Then take the Checklist from the other Reply´s in this Thread. But check after a few minutes your Map.

- Are all members near your Position or your marker?

- Are all using the Kits that you need?

- Are all following our orders?

And kick all Player of our Squad and make room for other Player who whants to Play as a Team if the they

- Are not near to your Position or marker

- Are not using Kits that you need, like Sniper.

- Are not following your orders.

I´m not a good SL and i don´t like to be a SL because for me its easyer to listen to the SL orders as to give as SL orders. Because English is not my language

ops: as you can see

OiSkout · Post by **OiSkout** » 2007-02-19 21:02

I realized it also depends wholely on your squadmates. Usually if they realize you're using VOIP, giving out orders, they'll be pretty responsive.

But as they are usually just pickups, you can't really expect proper spacing, efficient MOUT(people do it but usually not the right way), can't expect them to move out and secure the areas automatically(as they are pickups). However, you CAN get stuff like suppression/cover fire, but you have to call for it.

Most importantly, work in combo with another squad if you can. Even if you only type a few words, you can even simply work off them. If they're headin straight in, you can flank or provide cover. Stuff like that. Though I guess I also play as the inductive SL, especially cause it isn't a real life and death situation, might as well work to win at all costs(as in people below me are doing shit for me, so I can do something for someone higher up, compared to I exist for the squad.

Lothrian · Post by **Lothrian** » 2007-02-19 21:40

learn from the greats ... try to be Captain Picard!

It may sound stupid, but think with a reserved mind, dont be afarid to take risks but, be conservative at the same time, and most of all, take the time to out think your enemy.

The bold is the most important of them all - which is why humans have cars and monkeys have sticks. Superior intelligence over brute force.

Highlighting this reason, why is it 99% of people wont search for rally point or spawn cars until its to late or even worse ... use it as a free kills point until someone cleverly drives the car into them.

Like the old chinese saying goes,

"Monkey see, monkey do, man see monkey, man then experiments on monkey in a lab"

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-02-19 22:09

Don't always be concerned with winning. Sometimes the best squads are the ones that try to stay alive and avoid detection.

DrMcCleod · Post by **DrMcCleod** » 2007-02-20 11:39

I used to play alot of PlanetSide, and my Outfit had a great leader. He ran a teamspeak server and was always on the ball. When he was playing it took the game to a whole new level.

His secret: Discipline.

He put up with no bullshit when we were in action, we could goof around in the team sanctuary (no enemies), but when we were on an operation he gave the orders and expected them to be carried out, if you didn't you would get an earful, if you constantly ignored orders you got booted from the outfit.
He used voice almost continously and just hearing him speaking would make you play better.
There is a lot of complex stuff written in this thread, but it comes down to two things:

a) Discipline,
b) Communication.

If you want your squad to work together, you have to speak to them all the time, give them orders, 99% of people will respond to orders - particularly in PR, where people play BECAUSE they want that level of teamwork.

=T&A= CHARGER · Post by **=T&A= CHARGER** » 2007-02-20 13:55

Some more tips:

Greet people with there name when they join your squad.
Use the map to highlight the names of your squadmebers, so u can identify.
Commend a squad or squad member fo jobs well done. (we all love a pat on the back)
Use the binoculars. The damage these can do with arty can be very decisive.
Use the "k" button to communicate with other squads (thanks fuzzhead)

casualtyUR · Post by **casualtyUR** » 2007-02-20 14:04

"K" button?