Enemy RP spottet

[Holger Danske]

When you find a enemy ralleypoint, and you are out of nades, ore you have a kit where you dont have nades. I miss a feaure that says " Enemy RP spottet " so your squadmembers can take it out. Is ther any way you guyes can put that into the game ???

[El_Vikingo]

For the time bieng = "Enemy Boat"

[fuzzhead]

rallypoints will be able to be destroyed by small arms in the next server patch.

[wooly-back-jack]

try searching :/
this suggestion has been done to death and its not a good idea

[Darkpowder]

fuzzhead']rallypoints will be able to be destroyed by small arms in the next server patch.

now that is a shame, right now it takes some coordination to achieve the destruction of it. I wouldn't have gone the same way.

Thoughts fuzz on why this is being implemented?

[[PTG]Z.user]

now that is a shame, right now it takes some coordination to achieve the destruction of it. I wouldn't have gone the same way.

Thoughts fuzz on why this is being implemented?

I have to agree...^^

[wooly-back-jack]

yeah If I have run out of explosives I just tell everyone where it is, usually my squad 1st and camp it. At least if you kill them a couple of times they will stop spawning there and give you time for a teammate to arrive with a couple of grens.
I have even got ammo from enemy rally points! so the explosives excuse goes out the window tbh, you can get ammo but you still need someone to cover for enemies spawning.

[Aljen]

I also don't like to have RP destroyable by small arms fire.
I would rather have them "knifeable". So you would actually come closer to them and use some explosives (c4,SLAMS) or knife.
We will see what will happen after that patch
:

[Vaiski]

now that is a shame, right now it takes some coordination to achieve the destruction of it. I wouldn't have gone the same way.

Thoughts fuzz on why this is being implemented?

Thats true.. but now it usually leads to rally point spawnrape if you find a RP but don't have grenades.

[wooly-back-jack]

no It doesnt, If I am SL I spawn elsewhere and tell my squad it has been discovered, dont spawn there. then I will move it to somewhere else.
And you can get ammo from enemy rally points too, just keep bumping into them and you will hear the 'kaching' and get more ammo.
Should we have APC's destroyable by small arms fire too? because they get spawn camped aswell.

[wooly-back-jack]

also one of my rally points was spotted by enemy last night on Basrah and was camped, they got 3 of my squad. I killed the spawncampers and picked up a medic kit from a squadmate and revived them all, then requested my officer kit from the rally point again then went and moved it as soon as I could.
I also move rally points if I accidently glitch them into a wall, I even tell my squad on voip "sorry Ive glitched the rally point, Ill move it as soon as I can"
as soon as it lets me I move it to an acceptable place then tell my squad again. So me and my squad werent bothered about it being discovered and camped, we get around that problem easily...just move it. Use SL or APC as a temp spawn until the rally point is moved.

[fuzzhead]

the most obvious reason has been mentioned above: spawn raping.

Yes of course, if your smart you simply wont spawn there, but one of the major reasons to include rallypoints was to cut down nearly all reasons to spawn killing. Right now discovering an enemy rallypoint turns into a giant 'kill the spawners until we can get a grenade!!' session, which was not the intention.

The whole idea about rallypoints is this: its somewhere for your squad to drop off your third line gear (rucksacks, food, water, extra munitions, etc). This is done so you can be more mobile and nimble when you engage the enemy. It also doubles as a waypoint, somewhere you can tell your troops to gather if things go to hell or if you loose contact with the rest of your squad. Basically, its a meeting point, a 'safe area'. Typically this SHOULD be guarded, but in PR the gameplay is still too fast to require a picket at the rallypoint.

So when placing a rallypoint, you should NOT be thinking 'i need to place this as close as possible to the enemy position!' or even worse 'where can i glitch this bag into some object where it will be less easy to see'. Come on guys have a bit of Project Reality thinking! We'd like to encourage thinking more along the lines of: 'okay i have made my way to my waypoint destination, so far no signs of enemy. Up ahead we are expected to meet enemy resistance, men drop your packs, take only what is needed, lets get some!!'.

So anyways, when discovering a rallypoint, it shouldnt be some kind of armored target that you need to call in special troops to defeat! Its simply this: the enemy has overrun your fallback position. That is all. If you let the enemy get to your position, then they deserve to knock it out quickly, not be forced to deal with you spawning on top of them.

I think in the future a better system would simply be if any enemy walked within 5 meters of your rallypoint, its destroyed. Or knifing it as one person suggested. Either way, it should be an extremely vulnerable target, and should be placed appropriately, and hopefully in the future, squads will actually assign players to defend such valuable things. In larger maps this will be very important I think.


So to put it simple: Spawn Rape = Bad. Rallypoint = vulnerable. Protect your rallypoint, Think of it like your baby. That is all.

[wooly-back-jack]

yeah I suppose I could go with knifing..theres no excuse for hanging around then when you have discovered it. Bullets though? No I can see problems arising from being destructable by bullets.
Stray enemy bullets/snipers/friendly bullets.
If an enemy rally point is spotted it should be go there and take care of it knife/explosives, not peppar the area with bullets.

[Darkpowder]

How i see it:

- Rally points are new, hence some people are exploiting them by putting them in glitch areas or in as close as possible to the target flags.
- People have to have a rifleman, c4, slam, .50cal, or grenadier, AT guy to destroy the rallypoint. Usually getting one of these classes onto the target takes the effort of a squad not an individual, hence encouraging teamplay.
- Officer classes can also destroy RP's or use smoke to call down arty, airborne gunnery etc onto the target. Or even announce "red smoke on rally point team - destroy"
- Players are just starting to find interesting ways of informing the rest of the team about them.
- RP spawn raping is bad, but it is very easy for a SL to tell his troops not to spawn there, and to spawn elsewhere instead until he or she has the RP moved elsewhere. The spawnraping is i repeat bad, and the popping in of people on a location is always a bad reality thing. In time i feel that indoor rally points will become a much more frequent feature once mapmakers make more interior rooms and shacks to put them in.
- Rallypoints are becoming in some respect places which are being defended if the officer has got them in a very sweet tactical position on the flank or to the rear of enemy lines.
- It gives the opportunity for one squad to be on "infiltration duty" and to be a rally point hunting squad sent where needed by the commander.


So ... give them a bit more of a chance first... so i propose this...


Therefore Some Changes i feel would be better than making it too easy to destroy them with only smallarms fire:-

1 - I would propose therfore that it should take "one" grenade to take them out rather than two. although i really liked the idea of the SF class being the rallypoint hunter class, the unfortunate removal of grenades from that class (which i understand now why this was done) makes this more difficult.
2 - The Rally point should be able to be moved a little more often, not a lot more often else it just becomes "hunt the impossible rally point".
3 - The Rally point destruction should earn the player destroying it a lot of teamwork score preventing the "inclination" to spawnkill there.
4 - Now here is the best bit, the rally point should be able to be "destroyed" remotely by the SL even if they are not physically present there, not with an explosion, just a "disintigrate" prior to the setting up of the new rally point.

Perhaps even that the enemy should be able to raid the spawnpoint for ammo reloads to get grenades that are needed.

I hope you give these points some consideration, what does everyone else think?

[wooly-back-jack]

also what is Albasrah going to be like when you can shoot US rally points but still have to destroy spawn cars with explosives? bit of unbalance?
or even worse! what is alBasrah going to be like when nubs jihad all the spawn cars and all you have to do is shoot rally points, you are going to have each team starting from the back and a very boring game.

[Darkpowder]

wooly, go and look at the developer feedback section, there is a lot of discussion there about albasrah specifically, what you think of this global rally point change proposed by fuzz and these alternatives if they are considered?

[fuzzhead]

2 - The Rally point should be able to be moved a little more often, not a lot more often else it just becomes "hunt the impossible rally point".

Done in 507.

3 - The Rally point destruction should earn the player destroying it a lot of teamwork score preventing the "inclination" to spawnkill there.

Good Idea Ill mention that when they re-do the scoring system.


You CAN get ammo from the enemy rallypoint.


I donno darkpowder I just dont see a valid reason to make rallypoint withstand bullets. Your saying you should have a specific man to take it down, and Im saying it doesnt matter, if the enemy discovers your rallypoint, it should be toast, no special equipment required. The added extra little teamwork incentive is simply not worth the spawn raping opportunities.

I had other ideas about rallypoints but who knows if they would be possible.

One of my ideas was that you had to deploy it like a grappling hook, and pick it up again if you wanted to re-deploy it somewhere else. This would be more realistic, because that means you gotta pick up your packs again in order to put them down again. It just feels kinda gamey how you just leave your packs all over the place and then they just magically warp to where you are at. But who knows if its possible, and all the different sceanrios (if yuo die, do you have to go back and get your packs, etc)

[Teek]

Idealy, not nessisarly posible in BF2, it would be that each man carried a pack (idealy you could change whats in the pack) and placed it on the RP, also a designated LZ for fallback extractions, drops, ect. Squad mates could go to the RP and their pack and take stuff out. When you have a pack on your back, you have slower sprint and lower jump and more fatige. a enemey when dicovering a RP could 'cap' it as in dismatle/loot and could take it away on the next transport.

Ideas; RPs could be cappable
I like the point bonus for distroying RPs
Perhaps a Backpack system for RPs
If a enemy walks within 5m of a RP then perhaps its distroyed

[Darkpowder]

fuzzhead']
One of my ideas was that you had to deploy it like a grappling hook, and pick it up again if you wanted to re-deploy it somewhere else. This would be more realistic, because that means you gotta pick up your packs again in order to put them down again. It just feels kinda gamey how you just leave your packs all over the place and then they just magically warp to where you are at. But who knows if its possible, and all the different sceanrios (if yuo die, do you have to go back and get your packs, etc)

I can see what you mean that the rallypoints should be collected, but i suppose there are two sides to the coin. Supply drops by parachute can't be moved, and in many ways a rally point isn't a supply drop, or a spawn point but a curious amalgum of both. I used to love saying to my squad "Re-org point here at this burnt out vehicle if we get displaced or get in trouble". Anything that gives the squad a reeling of a Lay up point, or re-organisation area is all good. Good and bad points to having them "collectable" i would say.

I can definitely see what you mean there, it is a bit gamey that rallypoints can be warped into different zones, the grapple hook analogy is very good. I'm likeing that idea. Perhaps an officer kit should come with one single shot "rally-point" item like an ammo bag to be used in the inventory not as a menu option.

Reloads of "rally points" from the perspective of an officer perhaps can only be had from APC's or for pure realism large scale "Mission Packs" which the multiple kit allocations possible from a rallypoint can deliver - perhaps it could only be reloaded at the UAV.

Sure rucksacks can be shredded with smallarms easily, i just think rally points become something that can be too easily casually destroyed by an individual lonewolf player, however i do take your point that "discovery" makes it effectively useless or compromised. However will it actually stop the spawn raping? I think not, the same fools that rape the spawn area will still do so instead of calling in support to take it out. It wouldn't be so bad if it took a -hell- of a lot of ammo to destroy it, perhaps equal to taking out a vehicle with smallarms? Meaning that it would make a lot of noise taking it out.

On reflection though, the explosive conclusion we currently have to RP i think is realistic becasue of the large amt. of ammo and explosives that might be present at the rallypoint. If the rallypoint blows up perhaps equal to a grenade round if attacked by smallarms.... good thing? Or will long range snipers just wait until the enemy squad is surrounding it before detonating it with a few shots?