RP and destroying them

[Fenix16]

Im sorry if this has been brought up before, but when I was reading another post, Fuzz said

fuzzhead']rallypoints will be able to be destroyed by small arms in the next server patch.

I have to say that this is a bad idea. Right now, as far as squad play goes, blowing up RPs is the only legit reason to have an SF kit in the squad. Sure there are tons of people who use the kit because they like it, but slams dont have that many uses. They can :blow up RP's, they can blow up gun implacements and they can blow up bridges...Thats about it. 2 slams does little to tanks and apcs. So please dont dont make RPs vunerable to small arms fire. That doesnt even make that much sense anyways. What good is shooting a bag full of guns going to do? I mean, what else is a timed charge good for? Might as well just give them C4 so they can set traps instead of a sticky grenade with a 20 second time set on it.

My main point is that I really dont want to see SF dissappearing from tactical squads. But this patch would do just that.


(once again, on a side note, I am fully aware that many people would still use the kit, but im talking about squads who have members choose kits to better the squads progression on the battlefield, not a squad full of m4 whores.)

[lonelyjew]

Grenades, rockets, .50cal, tank shells, apc shells, AAA shells are among the many things that take them out making the special forces class already fairly useless in this sense.

[RikiRude]

Spec ops should focus on blowing up AA emplacements, and have a great CQC weapon, they will be fine =)

[Fenix16]

Tell that to the uptight squad leads who already get mad at people for playing sf instead of medic. Seriously though, pistols and smg's should not be able to destroy RPs. Thats a little ridiculous.

Grenades, rockets, .50cal, tank shells, apc shells, AAA shells are among the many things that take them out making the special forces class already fairly useless in this sense.

My point almost exactly. Instead of driving a tank, humvee, or apc to an RP you can have an sf do it. As far as the "many things" that can destroy them, the only thing u didnt list is aircraft. and yes nades work as well but you wont always have riflemen in the squad to fully support your nade spamming.

[RikiRude]

Tell that to the uptight squad leads who already get mad at people for playing sf instead of medic. Seriously though, pistols and smg's should not be able to destroy them. Thats a little ridiculous.

Why not? As explained on like 324 threads, the rally point represents where soldiers go drop off their unwanted gear.

And I don't blame SL for yelling at you, unless you already have two medics on the team or your objective is to take out an AA or something, you should be a medic instead of a spec ops.

[OiSkout]

What good is shooting a bag full of guns going to do?

No offense but ... Wow. Don't think much do you?

[Fenix16]

No offense but ... Wow. Don't think much do you?

...Are you about to tell me, that upon shooting an M14, or a SAW, with a pistol.....that they will explode and destroy the spawn point?

Riki_Rude_BTYC']
And I don't blame SL for yelling at you, unless you already have two medics on the team or your objective is to take out an AA or something, you should be a medic instead of a spec ops.

No where in my post did I say that I was being yelled at. For all you know I could be the one yelling. My concern is not players being able to play what they want to in a squad, it's seeing the sf kit become more and more useless as PR gets patched up (however im not complaining about the nerf of the m4 from its laser sniper rifle of .4 to what it is now).

As far as destroying AA, rarely, extreamly rarely, no, almost never, is this given as an order from a commander to a squad in a team that isnt made up of clanmates. Only times I see AA getting blown up in public servers is when some pilot in the squad actually tells the squad that its a big problem and needs to be dealt with. Often times even then its not possible, as the AA is so unbalanced that one team cant even get to it to destroy it *cough*muttrah*cough*.

From what I understand, you see me as a sf whore begging on his knees for you to not further decrease the value of the kit. And i'll have you know that I am no such thing. However I am quite the sniper whore.

[Smitty4212]

I don't have a problem with this.

I've been shot too many times placing SLAMs or C4 by people who have just spawned. Giving the ability to keep your distance is a great idea, imo. If the RPs were made like flags and could be "greyed" if an enemy was on one, then I would not mind seeing only explosives take them out.

I've been killed enough trying to destroy it now that if I place C4 on it, I give it right back to them. Wait for that last infantryman to spawn on it and boom... sorry but that's life.

[Clypp]

I would rather have knifing destroy rally points (you have to get right up to them) than have bullets kill it.

[RikiRude]

...Are you about to tell me, that upon shooting an M14, or a SAW, with a pistol.....that they will explode and destroy the spawn point?



No where in my post did I say that I was being yelled at. For all you know I could be the one yelling. My concern is not players being able to play what they want to in a squad, it's seeing the sf kit become more and more useless as PR gets patched up (however im not complaining about the nerf of the m4 from its laser sniper rifle of .4 to what it is now).

As far as destroying AA, rarely, extreamly rarely, no, almost never, is this given as an order from a commander to a squad in a team that isnt made up of clanmates. Only times I see AA getting blown up in public servers is when some pilot in the squad actually tells the squad that its a big problem and needs to be dealt with. Often times even then its not possible, as the AA is so unbalanced that one team cant even get to it to destroy it *cough*muttrah*cough*.

From what I understand, you see me as a sf whore begging on his knees for you to not further decrease the value of the kit. And i'll have you know that I am no such thing. However I am quite the sniper whore.

I totally think I read your post wrong I have no idea where I saw that your SL was yelling at you ??:

Anyways, spec ops will gain their worth back as we progress with releases and give them more stuff to blow up

[fuzzhead]

Spec ops will have ALOT more targets in v0.6.

rallypoints have never been intended to be a unique target for SF.

Try creating a spec ops squad whos SPECIFIC mission is to get behind enemy lines, be sneaky, and destroy all their assets (mapper rallypoints, AA guns, jeeps, etc).

A specops squad should not have more than 4 people, and should exercise extreme fire control. You have to be well coordinated, well disciplined, and not expect to get many, or ANY kills at all.

I have played specops squads a few times and its incredibly fun and challenging. Unforunately, the rest of the team was not doing good, as is usually the case, so playing spec ops really relies on the rest of your team being good.

[DrMcCleod]

...Are you about to tell me, that upon shooting an M14, or a SAW, with a pistol.....that they will explode and destroy the spawn point?

No...but they wouldn't work afterwards.

[Billy_Crook_Foot]

I was under the impression that RPs were introduced to alleviate spawnkilling... Ultimately, they are just there to cut down time travelling to the front during which time there would be little if any, combat. I think RPs should be very, very easily removed - maybe even just having an enemy soldier walk within 10 metres.

In all fairness, if a rally point is found by the enemy it should be whisked away immediately with little or no effort. Nobody should ever see an enemy player spawn, ever. Spawning is just the method for people to join a game - it shouldn't really give a disadvantage or an advantage apart from cutting down travel time without action (i.e. coming in from an unexpected direction, without having to travel all the way around again).

Therefore, my opinion is to make RPs ridiculously easy to remove to eliminate any unneccessary spawnkilling.

Cheers

[Nephrmuus]

Aye, rally points should be away from combat and hidden as much as possible. I'm sure they are there to allow you to spawn near the action, not IN the action, so there should be no problem with them being easy to destroy once detected. If your RP is getting destroyed too quickly with the new patch (or now, for that matter), it is because you haven't put it in a sensible location, which should reduce your walk-time to combat, not eliminate it.

I've been playing in vanilla BF2142 for some time now and they have had squad-leader set spawn points since the game came out last year (they are physically a lot smaller than RPs, but they have a flashing light on them and make a beeping sound that you can hear within about 5m or so). Those "spawn beacons" take about 3 bullets to destroy and I've never heard a complaint that they are too easy to destroy in that game, even from the more serious players that would be at home in PR.

Needless to say, spawn-beacon-camping is rife in that game, but I think making the spawn-point easier, not harder, to kill is the best way to minimise camping in either game.

The problem I see in the 0.5 patch is if they reduce the time delay between moving spawns, then there is even less to be gained by destroying an RP rather than leaving it there and camping it. I would seriously suggest making it such that you can move an existing RP 60 seconds after placing it, but if an RP is DESTROYED before the squad leader can move it, then the RP-placement timer be reset to 60 seconds. A rally point is a valuable asset (like an APC) and should be hidden away from combat and/or defended well. This change would make destroying the RP a lot more appealling than camping it; if you just camp it, then the officer can probably just move it right away and the squad can immediately start spawning again in a safer location, but destroy it and the squad is severely hampered!

[TheCaptn]

If spec ops are supposed to be so great at taking out AA guns, what's the point of having the damn things spawn back again 30 seconds later?!?

It's so annoying on maps like Muttrah City, where keeping helicopters alive is crucial to the US team getting -anywhere-, that the supposed 'behind enemy lines' role of the spec ops is so utterly, utterly worthless.
You can make it all the way to the Construction site and destroy what is easily the most rapetastic AA site on the map, but by the time you say "Construction Site AA is down" on VOIP the bloody thing is back again.

Who'd ever bother trying that more than once?

[Mr.Whitlow]

...Are you about to tell me, that upon shooting an M14, or a SAW, with a pistol.....that they will explode and destroy the spawn point?

After 40-50 rounds of small arms fire RPs will disappear. I think that's about right. Shoot a load of bags 50 times, and those bags are not going to look pretty any more, that's for sure.

[IronTaxi]

really i thought the AA spawn was fairly long...ill checkk...

looks like a 5min respawn...seems fair enough...i dont play muttrah very much mind you..

[TheCaptn]

I tried it again on BIGDY last night and it's definitely not 5 minutes. It's either 60 seconds for that one gun, or the MEC team can repair destroyed AA (a bit like Arty).
I blew it up with two SLAMs and 1:08 later it was firing again. I'd been killed while watching for it to respawn, but I could hear it and see the tracers from my ghost view.

[wooly-back-jack]

that AA gun that is inbetween construction + market wouldnt even blow up for me

[acadiancrusader]

AA guns should NEVER respawn imho. engineers should have the ability to repair them though. this would bring in a legit and very important sub strategy to the overall strategy of gameplay. either side would/must have a plan for capturing and destroying/repairing AA guns (and other important stationary targets).