V0.5 Class System Feedback

=*CLA*=StudMuffin21 · Post by **=*CLA*=StudMuffin21** » 2007-02-27 09:55

Since I can't seem to post this in the "Developer Feedback" section or the "Project Reality v0.5 Feedback" section:

This thread is for providing feedback to DEVs about the new class system and all included changes.

To make it not so long I will stick with the US class....everyone else please feel free to discuss any class you choose.

Special Operations
I believe this class has been completely nerffed. This class is now absolutely useless in my opinion. No parachute, no suppressor, SLAMs that can barely destroy a Vodnik, no body armor, and no grenade for that one time when you absolutely need it to save your life. The only time I ever use this class now is when I'm on China side, due to the rifle being naturally quiet. The ONLY thing going for this class at the moment is the SOFLAM and it's great digital zoom. If nothing else, please bring back C4, increase the explosive damage of the SLAM, or bring in some sort of explosive that will actually do some destruction. I find it quite annoying how insurgents have suicide cars that are equipped with only ONE C4 pack that can destroy a tank/APC, yet the US Special Forces (the best of the best) don't even have the equipment needed to de-track an enemy tank. Give the Special Forces class a purpose, and an ability to complete that objective!!!! Or just get rid of it and save us all a useless class. (Yes I am aware there are plans for the SOFLAM) What good is a class that is supposed to be the cornerstone of all military (in my opinion) operation, yet has nothing to brag about?!

Rifleman
I believe this class is perfect as it is.

Grenadier
Awesome! Now my most used kit (aside from the pilot kit and Officer kit). I love how grenades now have deviation, and don't hit the same exact spot every time (especially if you're moving while shotting). One problem with this class I have is the amount of grenades carried. IRL don't grenadiers carry more than 4 explosive rounds? I would have thought they would carry more like 8 grenade rounds total, and maybe 4 or 5 magazines.

Anti-Personnel
I have not yet used this class. I have not yet had a need for this class.

Combat Engineer
Great except one point. C4. Why would an Engineer ever need C4? Isn't their job to stay with vehicles and fix them if needed? I see no need for an engineer to be running around trying to blow up a tank or enemy vehicle. That should be the job of Anti-Tank Personnel. Blowing up bridges (as I see C4 mostly used) I believe should be the job of Special Forces, not Engineers.

Corpsman
Awesome except two things. I see a need for more magazines. Possibly 5 or 6 instead of 4 (not including the one already in the rifle). As the primary defense of a medic while attempting to heal/revive a fallen team member is a smoke grenade, how bout more than just 2 grenades.

Anti-Tank Rifleman
Perfect except one point. How bout two AT rounds? Often times it seems even with a very well placed hit, it takes two rounds to destroy a enemy vehicle (I'm talking about small vehicles).

Support
Perfect!

Sniper
Very well done guys!!!! I would like to see; however, an operational scope (meaning a mil dot scope so calculations about bullet drop, elevation, and leading targets can be made)

Designated Marksman
Why night vision? No current night maps that I am aware of. Other than that, great job!

Heavy Anti-Tank
Perfect

Anti-Air Rifleman
Awesome!! I love this class (though rarely use it). How bout taking on anti-air round away though. I'm sure carrying 2 around all day long is heavy enough!

Pilot
Perfect!!!!

Officer
Awesome!!

I apologize for the length..but wanted to be through (for the US forces). I'll leave it up to others to provide feedback on other classes. I also apologize for being so critical. I know every member of PR (and even the players) put a lot of time and effort into this game to make it what it is. And everyone has done an absolutely awesome job (not to blow sunshine up your butt). But we all know things can always be made better.

One final thought. A member of my community mentioned to me today that DEVs are planning on equipping the G3 with a scope. I must warn you that I believe this to be an extremely bad idea. I already get killed by that weapon enough. Strapping a scope of any kind to it will only significantly multiply it's lethality, and make it a Rambo weapon. If that's done, I and many other people will likely get frustrated by dying to the point of wanting to no longer play. And that would be a very sad day indeed!

.:iGi:.U.G.H. · Post by **.:iGi:.U.G.H.** » 2007-02-27 10:10

I find any class with a M16/QBZ next to useless now. Just don't stand a chance 1 on 1 with a G3/AK/SA80.

Lucid Nightmare · Post by **Lucid Nightmare** » 2007-02-27 10:13

The engineer isn't the class that just goes round repairing stuff. He's the guy with all the explosives and the know how to place it and detonate it.

I'd like to see the officer equipped with standard smoke nades instead of the signal ones. So many times I have wanted to throw smoke only to realise that I don't have proper ones.

Post by **IronTaxi** » 2007-02-27 10:22

re officer kit...you are not the only one hahaha...damn it...so many times nading fro nothing..

zizler · Post by **zizler** » 2007-02-27 11:07

One of my main kits is Spec Ops, purely for its easy of use and strong cqb capability and the pistol which is critical when you need to reload in a cqb.
I agree it needs more purpose and that the SLAMs need more power, maybe a shorter delay, its hard to use the way they are intended to, with 15 seconds. This game plays to fast.

.:iGi:. Greg · Post by **.:iGi:. Greg** » 2007-02-27 11:18

I really try and avoid the M16 now if I can. It just seems to have become totally ineffective. Even right next to them it seems to take several three shot bursts to actually kill them.

Although I do like the single shot accuracy of the M4. Besides my shameful AT whorage that is my weapon of choice.

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-02-27 12:09

The spec ops needs to be completely redone - ideally losing all explosives (that's the job of the combat engineer) and concentrate on the one area that does not have a specialist - short range combat. Give him a full-auto assault rifle/carbine, a shotgun over the shoulder and flashbangs and you have a perfect class for room clearing and CQC rather than having a jack of all trades and master of none as the current kit is.

Hfett · Post by **Hfett** » 2007-02-27 12:45

the c4 is for blowing bridges, not to destroy tanks
Wich could be also the hole of the spec ops(like you said)

But a enginner blowing bridges also make sence, so i see no problem with that

Jaycop · Post by **Jaycop** » 2007-02-27 15:00

I like the idea of turning the Specops into a fully dedicated CQB specialist ie equiped with stuff like flashbangs and breaching charges. He could look something like this:

CQB Specialist:
--------------

Knife
Pistol (3+1 magazines)
AR/SMG (7+1 magazines)
Flashbang (3x)
Smoke grenades (2x)
Breaching charge (2x)
Field dressing (1x)
Medium body armour

I think this would be a great role for the specops, also the breaching charge could work like the SLAM but with a clicker instead.

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-02-27 15:19

Someone started a thread about this before. Reform for the anti personel and spec ops classes. The thought was to change spec ops into a recon or scout class. Mk12 mod0 looks like a good weapon for him? lol If not then at least a silenced weapon. Though I would suspect recon would be a requestable kit.

=*CLA*=StudMuffin21
Your issues with medic ammo and grenadier ammor are not issues at all. They were purposefully done to encourage teamwork. A grenadier with 8 HE rounds would be an overused kit. Can you imagine a squad of grenadiers coming at you firing HE rounds? No? Well you will see it if they had more ammo. Same goes for medics, they don't give you a lot of ammo so the medic will have to depend on his teamates more.

Maistros · Post by **Maistros** » 2007-02-27 15:26

I would like to see a special operator class with only a suppressed mk23 or something, and only a bunch of accessories like so...

Special Ops
------------

Knife
Mk23 w/ suppressor (3+1)
Smoke Grenade (2x)
SLAM (4x)
C4 (2x)
SOFLAM
Field Dressing
Light Body Armor

Alternatively
-------------

Knife
Mk23 w/ suppressor (3+1)
MP5-SD series w/ Reflex (4+1)
Smoke Grenade (2x)
SLAM (4x)
SOFLAM
Field Dressing
Light Body Armor

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-02-27 16:02

^ but then you just have another engineer class with a silencer - what's the point of that?

DrMcCleod · Post by **DrMcCleod** » 2007-02-27 16:11

=*CLA*=StudMuffin21 wrote:Since I can't seem to post this in the "Developer Feedback" section or the "Project Reality v0.5 Feedback" section:

This thread is for providing feedback to DEVs about the new class system and all included changes.

To make it not so long I will stick with the US class....everyone else please feel free to discuss any class you choose.

Special Operations
I believe this class has been completely nerffed. This class is now absolutely useless in my opinion. No parachute, no suppressor, SLAMs that can barely destroy a Vodnik, no body armor, and no grenade for that one time when you absolutely need it to save your life. [/I]

Two SLAMS can destroy a bridge. Thats pretty handy.

Maistros · Post by **Maistros** » 2007-02-27 16:15

The point is going behind the lines, with stealth, to destroy high priority targets and if need be, defend yourself (Having only a pistol encourages a player to be more sneaky and not attack, as he surely would be out-gunned), and having the right tools for the job.

The engineer class is intended to be an infantry and armor support class. It is intended to "engineer" the battlefield by rigging mines, or having C4 for bridge destruction. However, it is a poor "combination" of the two jobs.

He has a spanner for repairing. Vehicle Combat/Infntry Support.
He has anti-tank mines. Vehicle Combat/Infantry Support.
He has C4 for bridge destruction. Combat development control.

Which one of those is out of place?
I feel it is a mistake to give the engineer C4. The engineer is a construction, and unit support figure.. not a demolitions expert. The engineer should be given something else, to aid in the support of the vehicles and infantry in their squad... something else to aid in the "engineering" of the battlefield... and leave the asset destruction to the special operations class.

Maistros · Post by **Maistros** » 2007-02-27 16:16

DrMcCleod wrote:Two SLAMS can destroy a bridge. Thats pretty handy.

Not if you need to destroy more than one bridge...

DrMcCleod · Post by **DrMcCleod** » 2007-02-27 16:24

'[R-PUB wrote:Maistros']Not if you need to destroy more than one bridge...

True...

Demio · Post by **Demio** » 2007-02-27 16:31

The MPSF is really good if you use it for what it's intended to.

I normally use to scout terrain for my squad, spot enemies and destroy AA guns.

It's not the uber-full-auto from 1km class anymore (talking about the M4).

So do not touch the MSPF. Do not make it a CQB expert or anything, we need scouts.

Maybe give us one more SOFLAM or make the SOFLAM more powerful.

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-02-27 16:31

Only giving the spec ops guy a pistol is a bit far fetched. I think a submachine gun at the least. With a submachine gun you would be encouraged to engage enemies at close range, or not at all. The subsonic pistol ammo those things fire would not be effective or very accurate at great distances. So you still are forced to use stealth.

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-02-27 16:45

'[R-PUB wrote:Maistros']The point is going behind the lines, with stealth, to destroy high priority targets and if need be, defend yourself (Having only a pistol encourages a player to be more sneaky and not attack, as he surely would be out-gunned), and having the right tools for the job.

This is my biggest problem with the Spec Ops class - the fact that everyone assumes that it should be a lone wolf class that fucks off and realistically accomplishes nothing of worth. The only lone wolf class in the game should be the sniper which should be a pick up kit anyway but that's another day's rant. The basic spawn screen options should be all squad members and all riflemen with the same Assault rifle and ammo calibre for all (the m4 and m16 are pretty similar so that's fine).

my answers are
1) the spec ops needs to have a name change just to stop these suggestions - there is little to nothing realistic of one man completely alone engaging the enemy behind enemy lines.
2) if you want stealth and infiltration join a squad and cause mayhem. The engineer can blow stuff up, the marksman can harass the enemy and the spec ops to engage at close quarters.
3) the engineers job is to blow stuff up - not repair. The reason the wrench is still in his kit is because DICE stupidly made mines indestructable in one of their patches after making the change that most people except snipers wanted.

The one area we have no specialist in is in CQC and the spec ops kit is the perfect opportunity to fill that gap with a full auto rifleman AR (suppressed?), a shotgun for room clearing as a secondary weapon instead of the pistol and flashbangs seeing as they are already in BF2 for storming rooms. I want the spec ops to be useful to a squad not a fifth wheel or lone wolf class as it is currently.