Veteran Says "Not Real at all"

[MAJOR]

Hey guys, I can really respect your work, and can see where you have invested a Lot of effort into this MOD, But I think the Scalping has been a Little overdone.

Weapon Damage and Blood is good, No Supply crate repairs and limited Jumping and Stuff is good as well. The Improved Damage radius is fine too, but there are things that have been Cut that are verry real.

Chutes should definately Stay since the Military has started to Train some of it's Personell in "Base Jumping" an Extreme Sport that has caught the attention of the Military for Fast insertion and Extraction. (For use where fast roping and repelling are Not an Option)

I've Never seen a Military that has no way for Pilots to reach the ground safely in the event of Ejection. Even in Helo's it's verry Difficult but Egress is HUGE.... In HC-3 Where I was Stationed for 3 Years the Helo Pilots All Had Egress Training.

I have Personally Seen UAV's work in the Military and BF2 Has used them Accurately with the radius.

Radar Scanning is also a real tool used by the Military.

I'm affraid if you wanted to be more realistic, you would be Leaving all the Tools of BF2 and adding More.

What about the Satalite Heat Signatures we use to See the Enimy Underground? Or our Heat Signature Binocs that can Penetrate through 3 feet of Concrete?

How about Our Advanced Laser targeted Artillary with Proximity Detonation?

I've Personally seen the Turret on an Abrams move to Hold position on a target at 45 Miles an hour while moving, and you've totally Slowed it down to where you can't even follow another vehicle. Verry Bad.

I mean really guys... This Mod Has "really" and "truely" Stripped the Game of it's reality. One thing that makes warfare so much more dangerouse now is the ability we all have to see one another. Warfare is no longer a Hide and seek Game of Cat and Mouse. It's about Speed. Getting into Position before your enimy. BF2 Has Captured that in a verry good Way.

You have succeeded in reverting our technology back to WWII in this MOD.

BF2 Is an Accurate and Fun Game. You've stripped it of all the atributes that Made it worth Purchasing. "Add to it, but don't take away"...

[TerribleOne]

I think youve not understood what the PRMM mission was totally. Which is understandable as your new to this forum. Welcome and thanks for your input to put things right.

However the mini mod basically stripped anything that was not realistic enough. Radar,UAV etc etc wil all be in the PR final releases along with the new models and everything else.
You may be an expert in your field but i do know that radars do nto bleep on infantry and that UAV's dont provide anything like that either. So while BF2 has these features they are innacurate and a closer match will be implemented in to PR release.

Pilots etc will all be able to eject in PR. And allthough soldiers may be trained with base jumping it is not standard issue in any area of the forces and if it was used you dont have infinate amounts of chutes.

Thanks again and i hope you stick around the forums to help in future.

[MAJOR]

No, UAV's don't Blip. They Provide real time 360* closed circuit video Link with Heat, and NVG signatures to the Base. So they are Better. The Newer ones are Half the Size at a 36 inch wingspan. They are so Light that they are Made to Disassemble in the Air, and fall to the Ground unharmed for future use. Made of 60% foam, They weigh aproximately 4 lbs and can fit in a Backpack weighing in at 7.6 lbs as a full kit.

The UAV's of the early 90's had simpler topographs that Laid out terrain, but now they are Quite Different. If you can Simulate that, You'de Have a New Kit for the Game. What else you want to Challenge my Knowlege on?

[Pak]

Chutes should definately Stay since the Military has started to Train some of it's Personell in "Base Jumping" an Extreme Sport that has caught the attention of the Military for Fast insertion and Extraction. (For use where fast roping and repelling are Not an Option)

So every marine carries a shute around on his back? They are removed in the MM because not every marine has a parachute all the time that is redeployable at all times and can be used in 20 foot drops. Base jumping is performed from many many stories up, not from 2 stories to get down to the ground without using the stairs.

I've Never seen a Military that has no way for Pilots to reach the ground safely in the event of Ejection. Even in Helo's it's verry Difficult but Egress is HUGE.... In HC-3 Where I was Stationed for 3 Years the Helo Pilots All Had Egress Training.

I believe it is planned for the full mod to have a pilot class that will have chutes.

I have Personally Seen UAV's work in the Military and BF2 Has used them Accurately with the radius.

Real UAVs require pilots, and work by way of photography, not magic enemy detecting equipment. The full mod will implement UAVs in a different manner, of which has not been disclosed. Even with all the heat detection and advanced photography, all information from UAVs must be processed by higher-ups before it is confirmed as a threat or non-threat. UAV information is vital, but takes time to analyze, and is not an instant feed of enemy locations to every soldier in the field.

I've Personally seen the Turret on an Abrams move to Hold position on a target at 45 Miles an hour while moving, and you've totally Slowed it down to where you can't even follow another vehicle. Verry Bad.

This is changed to enforce the idea of teamwork. The fewer flaws the tank has, the more incentive there is for players to jump in and go rambo until they die, after which there will be a new tank waiting for them every time. This is still a game, and must give the proper incentives for the player to play realistically.

I mean really guys... This Mod Has "really" and "truely" Stripped the Game of it's reality. One thing that makes warfare so much more dangerouse now is the ability we all have to see one another. Warfare is no longer a Hide and seek Game of Cat and Mouse. It's about Speed. Getting into Position before your enimy. BF2 Has Captured that in a verry good Way.

You have succeeded in reverting our technology back to WWII in this MOD.

BF2 Is an Accurate and Fun Game. You've stripped it of all the atributes that Made it worth Purchasing. "Add to it, but don't take away"...

If you think BF2 is so realistic, then why are we trying to control flagposts? In real war you fight for territory, not little flags that say "This belongs to me." You fight to the death in real war and to clear massive areas out, you don't fight in a small region trying to capture little flags that automatically let you populate the area with soldiers and armor.

The final issue is, this is still a game, and must act as a game. It must have the proper balance of incentives and disincentives for solving challenges certain ways. To the number reality is second to the gameplay. If the game was completely realistic, you could join any server, and once you were killed once, you were banned from all the servers.

[MAJOR]

No, UAV's don't Blip. They Provide real time 360* closed circuit video Link with Heat, and NVG signatures to the Base. So they are Better. The Newer ones are Half the Size at a 36 inch wingspan. They are so Light that they are Made to Disassemble in the Air, and fall to the Ground unharmed for future use. Made of 60% foam, They weigh aproximately 4 lbs and can fit in a Backpack weighing in at 7.6 lbs as a full kit.

The UAV's of the early 90's had simpler topographs that Laid out terrain, but now they are Quite Different. If you can Simulate that, You'de Have a New Kit for the Game. What else you want to Challenge my Knowlege on?

And they are Carried by Soldiers on Site. Can't get any Closer than That. lol
I'm Sure I can Get a Photo of a Soldier Holding one in his Hand. Sorry to be so critical, but with the name "REALITY" on the Mod, it's too Hard to resist.

[MAJOR]

I guess I'll Just wait to see what the end product is.

[Evilhomer]

We are refining the mod extremely finely, and we found that we first had to start from the roots up. We gave the community simple bones to work with so it was easier to show where the problems in gameplay were, so prevented a lot of work later on in the future. It also gave us an idea about how the gameplay flows in certain areas, what things force a player to co-operate with his team etc etc, and from what we have seen we have managed to get a majority of people realising that one of the best ways to stay alive in a gaming enviroment that is far more hostile, is to stay in larger groups. Now that we have acomplished this, we arwe now going to build upwards, adding back features and seeing what makes them work. how they help and hinder the gameplay etc etc. We do appreciate people saying that its superficial, and bare bones, but whats the point in making a mod that doesn't even have firm foundations?

Thank for taking the time to post your thoughts on the forums, and actually posting constructive critism, without flaming etc etc. Sure makes our job far easier, and hope that it has cleared up one or to things for you. If not do feel free to comment back!

[MFT-TEAZER]

something awesome would be Tanks that really held the right amount of crew members, right now BF2 puts a Driver/Gunner and a Commander/50Cal Gunner in one M1A1 or T62 Tanks. When in reality, these tanks hold up to 5-6 members:
1. Tank Commander
2. Asst. Commander/Comms.
3. Driver
4. Loader/Gunner
5. Engineer/Comms

Now, At least in my unit, that's how we had it, don't know about USMC's... Of course, I don't recal US MArines driving M1A1 tanks. but I digress... If you could have The Tanks hold the real about of Squad members, then You could have more RPG focused Strategy in Bf2 and more Tanker Units instead of one jackass when a tanks spawns take off and abondon everyone. Hell Put a safe guard on the tank, If only one guy jumps in, it won't move until you have all 5 jump in. Then it magically starts, and you go, and each member would be able to have their productive parts in the tanks, maybe these lone wolfs wouldn't just rush bases with their tanks, they would use Tanker Strategy and clear a way as support for others to come in and take flags or what have you.

[TerribleOne]

I disagree to a point. Because then the tank cannot be moved. I think the tank should have the correct amount of placements but its not limited to them for it to work. Eg if the driver jumps in then he can drive, if the gunner jumps in then he can use the gun and if anyone else wants to sit in and take cover in any of the other places then they should feel free. Personally i would love the inside of tanks and apc's etc to be modeled in and for loaders to have there respective area etc, allthough i understand it would possibly take the triangle limit over and above.

[DuckCommander]

Driver, Gunner, Commander is all that should be needed. Worked with DCR.

[Super62]

something awesome would be Tanks that really held the right amount of crew members, right now BF2 puts a Driver/Gunner and a Commander/50Cal Gunner in one M1A1 or T62 Tanks. When in reality, these tanks hold up to 5-6 members:
1. Tank Commander
2. Asst. Commander/Comms.
3. Driver
4. Loader/Gunner
5. Engineer/Comms

Now, At least in my unit, that's how we had it, don't know about USMC's... Of course, I don't recal US MArines driving M1A1 tanks. but I digress... If you could have The Tanks hold the real about of Squad members, then You could have more RPG focused Strategy in Bf2 and more Tanker Units instead of one jackass when a tanks spawns take off and abondon everyone. Hell Put a safe guard on the tank, If only one guy jumps in, it won't move until you have all 5 jump in. Then it magically starts, and you go, and each member would be able to have their productive parts in the tanks, maybe these lone wolfs wouldn't just rush bases with their tanks, they would use Tanker Strategy and clear a way as support for others to come in and take flags or what have you.

The Abrams has 4 crewmembers, loader, gunner, driver, commander. The Marines use the M1A1, not the M1A2 which is in the game. As for the T62 its a T90 and it has 3 crewmembers since it has a autoloader. Ive never heard of 5 or 6 crewmembers in a modern tank.

[Tacamo]

With all the ammo, protection, equipment, sometimes an autoloader it'd be impossible to fit that many. Three or four is tight enough and they're trying to get that number down to two eventually.

[Eddie Baker]

something awesome would be Tanks that really held the right amount of crew members, right now BF2 puts a Driver/Gunner and a Commander/50Cal Gunner in one M1A1 or T62 Tanks. When in reality, these tanks hold up to 5-6 members.

Holy shit! Is the Army recruiting midgets?

[Hailo]

LOL

M1A1/2 only takes 4 peeps dosent it?

Driver
Gunner
Commander
Loader

[XoC.sr]

"This is still a game, and must give the proper incentives for the player to play realistically."

I agree. IMHO this mod is extremely realistic in alot of ways. Trying to pack every new toy out there into one game would be a big mistake. There are still a few out there that still love infantry battles and the way UAV works right now kills that part of the game.

The support weapons have a little to much recoil but other than that the weapons are 10 times more realistic than BF2 (computer generated random bullet spread is not realistic). Nice work so far, cannot wait to see the finished product.

[joemoemino]

The Abrams has an M240 7.62 mg for the Loader

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm

So you could technically put a loader who does nothing but shoot people with his mg and when the main gun is loading make it so that he cant fire. If its possible.

[Djuice]

But the problem is, with any vehicle that require more then 2 or 3 people to operate, are still useless against AT soldiers.

EG: Tank with 4 people = 4 kills with AT soldier with 1 ATGM

[Paladin-X]

Don't forget there's a limit to how many players on a server. Should tanks only be used on 64 player maps?