Source engine?

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-08-19 23:42

Have you guys ever considered it? Personally, I don't own half life (but have played it and checked out the source engine), so I'm not trying to push anything.

Just curious why you guys chose BF2 over source engine.. since source engine gives you so much more customizability.

It's kind of crummy that you can't implement certain things due to the limitations the BF2 devs gave the community... such ironsights on stationary MGs, multiple scope zooms for certain rifles, thermal vision, vehicles with a realistic seating capacity, more customizability for the hud, more customizability for squads, etc..

TerribleOne · Post by **TerribleOne** » 2005-08-19 23:45

The source engine provides allmost continuouse support for mods. Anything is possible not to mention the allready realistic physic capabilities available. However i can see why they choose this engine simply because its newer and was built around BF2 which is what they want only tweaked in respect of the devs.
Allthough as time goes on i wonder if they ever have second thoughts because bf2 engine really does lack in terms of physics and improving them.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-08-19 23:47

TerribleOne wrote:The source engine provides allmost continuouse support for mods. Anything is possible not to mention the allready realistic physic capabilities available. However i can see why they choose this engine simply because its newer and was built around BF2 which is what they want only tweaked in respect of the devs.
Allthough as time goes on i wonder if they ever have second thoughts because bf2 engine really does lack in terms of physics and improving them.

Well, personally, I think that everything that is possible in BF2 is possible in the source engine.

The only real reason I see to choose BF2 is that the devs have more experience with it...

Even still.. imagine the type of things they could do with the source engine.. *shiver*... casualty collection points and stuff.. oh yea

Djuice · Post by **Djuice** » 2005-08-20 00:14

1 Question tho i wanna ask, Does the source engine allow you to make fairly large maps 4-6km squared maps, and still able to run it quite nicely without much slowdown and loading time?

Commando Poop · Post by **Commando Poop** » 2005-08-20 00:40

Also the source engine isn't too friendly to vehicles and you'd also have to compete with http://www.insurgencymod.net/

Post by **Paladin-X** » 2005-08-20 00:50

Artnez.com wrote: It's kind of crummy that you can't implement certain things due to the limitations the BF2 devs gave the community... such ironsights on stationary MGs, multiple scope zooms for certain rifles, thermal vision, vehicles with a realistic seating capacity, more customizability for the hud, more customizability for squads, etc..

Most of those are possible to do in BF2. We need time to add in stuff. The mini-mod is primarily tweaks of the code. No real new anims, skins, models, etc.

Why choose BF2? I like the BF series. The stock games are fun to play and the various mods for it make it all the better. I have barely played half-life or counterstrike and am not that familiar with modding it. Also, I choose BF2 because I am familiar with how it works and how to mod it.

There are lots of things other engines/games allow you to do that you can't with BF and probably vice versa. However, I am a BF fanboi, so my loyalties lie with this series.

Tonedef · Post by **Tonedef** » 2005-08-20 02:17

[R-DEV wrote:Djuice]1 Question tho i wanna ask, Does the source engine allow you to make fairly large maps 4-6km squared maps, and still able to run it quite nicely without much slowdown and loading time?

Yes it can....but you will have to cut back signifigantsly on the amount of prop physics. Unless you are targeting highend engines only

As for the BF2 engine being newer: Yes it is newer but it is just middleware (like all EA games) meaning it is very wastefull and restricted. Made to do mainly 1 thing...not make for sharring purposes. Also Source is modular, meaning it is a bunch of independant engines runing as one big one. This allows for Valve to update it 'on the fly'. Like the addition of HDR, they pullout the rendering and lighting engine and do what they need and slide them back into their spots and BAM! Hot new feature. This will allow them to also keep up and compete with the UE3.

Though many people look over all those goodies because they 'don't like steam so I don't want my mod on their' quite pathetic (not directied at the PR team!!

)

CobraPhantom · Post by **CobraPhantom** » 2005-08-20 03:07

I think the BF series rates higher above the CS mainly due to the bigger maps and choice of vehicles. I know HL2 mods have added vehicles but I just love how BF represents them. Source may be more eye candy but BF is great gameplay....well mods that is

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-08-20 03:09

i think that HL seried is one of if not the best for infantry fighting games but ill always take BF overall cause of the vehicles.

TerribleOne · Post by **TerribleOne** » 2005-08-20 17:52

Yea but you are all talking about games implemented on the engine here. A large mapped infantry based game CAN be used to very great effect on the source engine.
The bf2 engine just has games allready running what you want but unrealistically, and from what im seeing it cant be altered.
The only reason CSS and HL2 maps are smaller is because they go for more detail in props and effects etc. The overall detail per area is far greater in CSS and HL2, for example in CSS there is PC props that when you hit fly on the floor and you can contine to shoot individual parts out, its got like the mobo,fan,powersource,side case,buttons etc etc and thats for just a tiny prop not to mention glass is very realistic. Overall for somthing on the scale of BF2 games this detail coult not be carryed over unles everyone is running super gaming systems. However it is very capable of anything the BF2 engine can do and very capable of implementing any effect that has not being done by the developers allready. Oh and all the bullet physics etc are allready perfect.
I want this mod to be the best it can and currently i have not seen the final release of the coding however if things cannot be achieved then i dont think ti would be wrong to move to another engine. IMO.

Sorry for any spelling/grammar because i typed this on the fly and am too lazy to check it

Hoss · Post by **Hoss** » 2005-08-20 18:00

http://www.insurgencymod.net/

I've never got into the forums there, but I've always kept an eye on that mod. Really curious as to how it's going to be.

TerribleOne · Post by **TerribleOne** » 2005-08-20 18:03

I dont think there going to make huge maps like bf2 which is a shame. Since i look at there models and they are all super detailed including player models. Allthough if they do have big maps with that much detail il be downloading instantly.

Post by **Alpha_Lima** » 2005-08-20 18:21

From the mapping perspective I can tell you it's vastly more difficult doing a large (i.e. 2-4 km) map in Source than it is in BF2. The default scale in HL2 gives you maps w/ max dimensions of less than 1x1 km actually, so if you want maps larger than that you have to implement a smaller scale in your mod, which starts to affect precision for things like collision detection and physics. So by the time you're at the scale where you can have 4 km maps (the max size for BF2) collisions & physics will probably feel less "crisp" than they do in BF2. Not to mention performance issues, as HL2 relies a lot on occlusion, which doesn't work well for large outdoor areas, especially if you have players piloting aircraft.

In addition to that, there's the issue of mod friendliness. Though it's true Source can be modded to do basically anything you could imagine in a FPS, everything has to be coded from scratch in C++, as there is no higher-level scripting language implemented (like Unreal script in UT, or python in BF2). So coders have an enormous job to do if they want to create a total conversion. Just look at the Insurgency mod. They've been working at it since HL2's release and 9 months later their first beta release still isn't in sight...

Also don't underestimate what can be done w/ BF2. I'm amazed at some of the things modders figured out how to do in BF1942 that had been thought to be impossible. But given enough time creative and innovative coders can come up with the darndest things. I can only imagine what they'll end up cooking up for BF2.

EDIT: Insurgency uses a 1:1 scale so you definitely won't see maps even as large as 1x1 km.

Commando Poop · Post by **Commando Poop** » 2005-08-20 21:42

Tonedef wrote:
[R-DEV wrote:Djuice]1 Question tho i wanna ask, Does the source engine allow you to make fairly large maps 4-6km squared maps, and still able to run it quite nicely without much slowdown and loading time?
This will allow them to also keep up and compete with the UE3.

Source is no competition to UE3.

Tonedef · Post by **Tonedef** » 2005-08-21 03:56

Because Source is only set to run on computers redily availible now...If Source was to shoot to perform on the same specs as UE3 (512mb GFX, 3gb Ram, and a 3.6ghz CPU) then source would match it. So right NOW it is not doing UE3...but with the modular structure of the engine they certainly will be a competition to the UE3. Watch and see.

As for Coders having alot of work with Source....don't get lazy coders. Any coder that has a future in that feild will use that as an oportunity to show their skills.

Commando Poop · Post by **Commando Poop** » 2005-08-21 21:25

Tonedef wrote:Because Source is only set to run on computers redily availible now...If Source was to shoot to perform on the same specs as UE3 (512mb GFX, 3gb Ram, and a 3.6ghz CPU) then source would match it. So right NOW it is not doing UE3...but with the modular structure of the engine they certainly will be a competition to the UE3. Watch and see.

Do you seriously think Valve is going to give free upgrades to there engine so they can maybe compete with UE3. They may add a few things such as HDR lighting but they're not gonna be up with UE3 unless they use these upgrades that they have in a new game that they make. Also how do you know UE3 won't have same type of modula structure as Source, and if they did they can just stay ahead of source.

TerribleOne · Post by **TerribleOne** » 2005-08-22 13:31

BF2 loadtime is currently allot longer then CSS or HLDM and i think having maps linked to each other would be the coolest thing ever.
Imadgine mapping out a whole section of iraq on a server where the game never ends, you could have a world of war craft theme but realistic to war.

Or even hundreds of miles of jungle that as the days progress your forces would move around inside the jungle. You could spawn to the latest checkpoint/stronghold or the place you started out at.

Tonedef · Post by **Tonedef** » 2005-08-22 18:11

I think he means with good graphics, and WW2 Online isn't in Iraq

Also he was talking about doing this on Source, not BF2

Source engine?

Source engine?

Re: Source engine?