I'm getting really really sick of people raping airfields.

TheCaptn · Post by **TheCaptn** » 2007-03-02 03:07

<rant>Gulf of Oman and Greasy Mullet are where it happens most. If you get in a jet and hightail it straight to the enemy airfield, there to bomb and strafe the jets, helicopters and people spawning; you're a cheap ******* and I'm getting really sick of people like you.
Don't kid yourself that you're doing it 'for the team' either. You're just trying to rack up cheap kills like the worst little vanilla whore, and you're to much of a pussy to let it become a fair fight.</rant>

Ok, now that I've got that out of my system, this is still a serious problem. On Gulf of Oman the MEC Frogfoot even has a delayed spawn, to give the US a chance to get a foothold on the beach, but often the F-18 pilots will destroy everything at the MEC airfield and then simply loiter until the Frogfoot spawns.
On the flip side sometimes when the frogfoot does get up all it will do is bomb the US carrier. I had one guy in my squad a couple of days ago who did that. When I told him to quit it and focus on the beach flags (two of which the US team already held) he told me to "get f***ed" and left to join a more lenient squad.

I know some people will want to argue that 'airfield suppression' is "realistic" but I really don't buy it. The real world doesn't have hostile airfields 2km apart and still conducting flight operations, and the real world -does- have long range, computer controlled, radar guided, networked and automated air defense systems... What we get in game is AA guns with no sight (for some teams) that do reasonable damage but only when they hit, and shoulder fired AA missiles that also do reasonable damage but are more likely to miss the target than hit it anyway.
At least the carrier has a sighted AA with multiple missiles (which is primarily an Anti-Missile CWIS system in real life, and only an AA-of-last-resort).

The way I see it PR is trying to recreate a force-on-force situation. On maps where both teams have air power the whole point is that they should meet in the air. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp.

With that in mind I have a few suggestions for possible changes, in descending order of technical difficulty:

1) Delay the spawning of -all- jets on those maps for five minutes. Not just the Frogfoot on Oman. Think of it as a slightly more realistic travel time to the front.

2) Adjust the point system so that destroying an empty jet or helicopter within a certain area (airfield) translates to serious negative points.

3) The only AA that pilots can be genuinely frightened of at the moment is the Carrier's Phalanx. It's got the appropriate level of firepower and it doesn't light up on the HUD when active... So model and implement a comparable system for MEC and China to use at their airfields, and let the mappers be liberal with them.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-02 03:14

Yeah the AA needs some tweaking .. should be lethal for aircraft to go near an enemy airfield. Will work on it.

That said .. I gotta admit that 80% of the time I see a pilot in the air they are typically useless.... F18s bombing snipers when there's an Su25 raping away

Tempus · Post by **Tempus** » 2007-03-02 03:48

We've got a full discussion about it here at Tactical Gamer. I've redirected them to give feedback here.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-02 04:11

Also we gave a huge boost to AAA in the v0.509 update .. so see what difference that makes. The MANPADS stuff needs a client update, but the AAA should be much more effective after the v0.509 server update.

coolhand · Post by **coolhand** » 2007-03-02 04:20

I dont mind if I get strafed while boarding my plane at the start of the round. The way and see and feel about it is that its 'scramble' time and pretty much pilots get the same exact amount of time to get to their jets. Now, the one who is closest to it and flies the shortest course wins and to me that is just part of the strategy.

However, i do agree; enemy airfields should have super-nasty AA's able to take any plane down with ease for anyone who decides to fly over it. One of those AA rounds should tear a plane in peices... or 3 rounds at most to take one down; then maybe pilots would learn to respect them. I myself am not afraid of those gun AA's at all.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-02 05:03

The thing is with the AAA firing against a static plane .. a short burst will destroy the plane. But when you add in server lag and hit detection issues, effectively they become useless.

Am hoping between fixing the server lag and boosting the damage they will be much more realistic in their impact on aircraft.

Cyber-Couch · Post by **Cyber-Couch** » 2007-03-02 05:24

What about muttrah? If all of it's AA guns are manned it is almost impossible for a LB to get in and out. The AA rapes the helicopters on muttrah, and the LB gunship is just too poorly equipped to take them out, and the minigun convergence distance on it is way too far away. Where it is right now you can't even see the enemy from a certain distance, so might as well make the convergence distance to where the enemies start to come into view.

coolhand · Post by **coolhand** » 2007-03-02 06:37

Cyber-Couch wrote:What about muttrah? If all of it's AA guns are manned it is almost impossible for a LB to get in and out. The AA rapes the helicopters on muttrah, and the LB gunship is just too poorly equipped to take them out, and the minigun convergence distance on it is way too far away. Where it is right now you can't even see the enemy from a certain distance, so might as well make the convergence distance to where the enemies start to come into view.

Well, the problem with Muttrah is pretty much the placement of that dock AA - its really unecessary. The rest of the AA's are fine since their placement balances out the difficulties for the Marines landing on the docks. The LB gunships are pretty deadly vs. AA guns.. I have no problems taking them out whatsoever so long as I plan out my route of attack beforehand so I get to 'sneak' up around the gunner.

Cyber-Couch · Post by **Cyber-Couch** » 2007-03-02 07:28

Coolhand, I don't doubt your flying skills but I highly doubt you have taken out an AA gun before he has taken you out. With the AA gun being on the dot accurate I have never seen an LB take it out before. Even if you take out the gunner which requires a very steady aim since the rounds don't cause any shrapnel to injure nearby targets. There will be another gunner to get back on the gun and take you out.

TheCaptn · Post by **TheCaptn** » 2007-03-02 09:42

Fishw0rk wrote:Sorry Captn but I can't agree. I do think its a valid tactic to destroy enemy air assets as soon as they spawn, especially if you're flying something like the A-10 or SU-24, which are vulnerable to fighters. Base raping from jets is frustrating for sure, but I'd not call players 'cehap pussies' or whatever for doing it. The purpose of the F-18 & MiG are to take out other air assets first and foremost.

The way I see it, in maps with a bomber and a fighter the fighter is there to provide cover for the bomber. So on Oman the primary role of the Mig is -not- to destroy enemy air assets on the carrier, but to protect the Frogfoot from the enemy fighters. On Greasy Mullet that goes for both teams... If the fighter's not doing its job properly that doesn't give the bomber license constantly rip on an enemy airfield.

If the bomber pilot is worried about a fighter coming after him my preferred way to deal with it would see them asking for a Spec Ops unit to go and take it out. I have no problem with infantry assaulting an airfield. It can be extremely useful, and it's fun for the infiltrating spec ops too... But with the current poor state of air defenses I can't think of any legitimate reason for a jet to just loiter over the airfield bombing or strafing infantry as they spawn and keeping the AA, jets and choppers destroyed.

It's cheap exactly because it's so incredibly easy and non-threatening at the moment. When there's something available to actually counter that behaviour I'll gladly rethink my position.

Post by **RikiRude** » 2007-03-02 10:03

I think the AA in muttrah is fine (talking about 509 where the docks AA is gone) because the way rhino has the guns positioned they can only hit certain areas of the map. So if you know where the guns are and which way they are facing you can easily make landings right near the MEC main or mosque.

[DVB]DirtyBeets · Post by **[DVB]DirtyBeets** » 2007-03-02 10:16

'[R-DEV wrote:Riki_Rude_BTYC']I think the AA in muttrah is fine (talking about 509 where the docks AA is gone) because the way rhino has the guns positioned they can only hit certain areas of the map. So if you know where the guns are and which way they are facing you can easily make landings right near the MEC main or mosque.

great now everyone knows

j/k

DrMcCleod · Post by **DrMcCleod** » 2007-03-02 10:24

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']Yeah the AA needs some tweaking .. should be lethal for aircraft to go near an enemy airfield. Will work on it.

That said .. I gotta admit that 80% of the time I see a pilot in the air they are typically useless.... F18s bombing snipers when there's an Su25 raping away

Haha, you said it. Frankly the best way to spot a losing team is to find one with lots of air power up.

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-03-02 10:42

Maybe it's just me and my silly simplified ideas, but could one not just place a deadman zone around the airfields in question, and if planes or hostiles cross that line the normal 10 seconds "you will be punished" appear. That should keep most people away from the airports.

Pretend its a missile guided system that just brought you down.

Post by **bosco_** » 2007-03-02 10:52

Muttrah's AA is really though now, first I played the map in .5 I though I got hit by a Heavy AT rocket :O

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2007-03-02 11:00

I think delaying the spawn of all jets on Oman and Mullet would be the best solution.
You wuld still be able to attack the airfield but not at the beginning of the game and you might find yourself busy supporting the troops and not have time to rape the base.
This is old school vanilla and it attracts that sort of player who likes to fly in circles strafing the AAA sites and airfield on a regular clockwork basis.

mrmong · Post by **mrmong** » 2007-03-02 11:04

i dont really think jets fit into many of the maps in PR to be honest.. just keep them in al basrah.

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2007-03-02 11:41

They are perfectly hated beasts on Al Basrah.
I love to hate that sound.