This is what happens when users dont follow forum rules

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-03-06 12:49

How did the Devfile IED Sampler thread get off topic? I think you showed poor judgement in locking the thread which had a very good and civil debate going on. I know you will delete this thread. I also know that the I will be told the proper response is to private message you. I prefer the public forum. Here is a post by a colleague of yours:

R-DEV Wraith wrote: If people can continue to be civil I will leave the thread open.

I operate under the theory of perception.
Perception=Reality
It isn't a matter of you didn't think the video was offensive or not. The "Issue" is some one took offense of the video. In the modern "Western" workplace offending a co-worker = you no longer have a job. I realize that is on the extream end of things but realy, who is to say that by you posting a video (game or not) of IED's killing US marines isn't going to offend Joe User who just got back to Britain/US after being in IRAQ and losing friends to IED's?

The fact is it was offensive. Just because it didn't offend every one doesn't make in less offensive when it comes to peoples perception of the video. After the reaction from the community in regards to another video like this posted recently I can only conclude you were attempting to draw the same response/critisism from your video.

Just out of curiosity I showed the video which I saved locally on my system here at work. To keep things analytical I didn't tell them what the video is about or why I was showing them. I found 4 guys from the same unit that returned from IRAQ 4 months ago. Here were the tests that I did with them

GUY 1: showed video with no prelude or background
Response: "Why would some one want to post a video depicting the killing of people using IED's?"

GUY2: Same setup
Response: "What game is that?" after explaining the mod (he already knew bf2) his next question was "I can't understand why kids think that killing each other wheather just playing or not is fun... War is not fun, IED's are not fun, KILLING is not fun" At this point he had to walk away as he was getting upset

GUY3: Told him this video was created by a US citizen and showed him the avatar only
Response: "where is this stupid mother fucker and where are his god damn perants that they let him post this shit" at which point he slugged me in the chest for showing it to him.

GUY4. Told him this video was created by a US citizen and showed him the avatar and the SIG but before I could show him the video he refused to watch and when I talked to him a little later about it we discussed the fact that the best man in his wedding had no legs and half his left arm due to an IED attack that left my GUY4 with one eye and half a cheek...

That's 4 people that were ready to kill some one based on a "Video" game and a sig and avatar that portrays somewhat accurately the killing of US troops. I kid you not when I say that one of these 4 was demanding an IP address and was getting his cell phone out to call Homeland Defense over this.

You might think it's funny, or even entertaining, hell maybe it is. What you didn't think of is how others would react (or maybe you did and that's the problem) Honestly, I don't care what you did or didn't think. It depicted the needless deaths of inocent people and that is never "Apropriate"for the younger viewers on these forums.

To clerify for some of our more dense members:
This post is refering to the blatent posting of "re-creations" of death scenes. It is not appropriate and will not be tolerated.

It is also a blanket request to please think not only about what you think of the videos but also what others may think. Also keep in mind that we have kids that are under 13 years old on the forums and what you may think is ok for others realy shouldn't be seen by them.

KP · Post by KP » 2007-03-06 13:22

If you know that the proper response is a PM, then you should send a PM. If you have problems with any one person on the forums, I suggest that you take it up with that person, instead of complaining in public. Complaining about stuff like this is unnecessary and - IMHO - unwanted, uncalled for and - again, IMO - quite immature.

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-03-06 13:43

KP wrote:If you know that the proper response is a PM, then you should send a PM. If you have problems with any one person on the forums, I suggest that you take it up with that person, instead of complaining in public. Complaining about stuff like this is unnecessary and - IMHO - unwanted, uncalled for and - again, IMO - quite immature.

This has nothing to do with maturity. A thread that was being left open to encourage spirited and (let me use your word) "mature" debate. It was closed for that same reason. PMing said person does nothing but make me an ******* just to him. Why do that when I can be an ******* to everyone? Seriously though I think I have a valid point here. I was enjoying the debate and wondered what everyone elses opinion was. I mean maybe moving the topic would have been a much more accpetable response.

MRGUMP!! · Post by **MRGUMP!!** » 2007-03-06 13:54

I just don't understand people. This is a game and if videos are being made ingame that depict real life situations then who gives a rats ***. Shooting someone in the face in this game is depicting a real life situation but these same cry babies are still play it.

As for the whole under the age of 13 users, I really don't care. They are under the recomended age for this game and I think that it is beyond stupid that the more "mature" community that this game has has to bend over backwards for them. It's the same reason I get extremely pissed when I find a server with language filters, we're playing a game the revolves around shooting people in the face or blowing them up with bombs ect. How are some words more mature than that?

DirtyHarry88 · Post by **DirtyHarry88** » 2007-03-06 14:06

I know exactly what you mean Determined, you have a mature argument over something yet if you challenge a mod's opinion or prove them wrong POST DELETED! Farce.

KP · Post by KP » 2007-03-06 14:12

Determined wrote:This has nothing to do with maturity. A thread that was being left open to encourage spirited and (let me use your word) "mature" debate. It was closed for that same reason. PMing said person does nothing but make me an ******* just to him. Why do that when I can be an ******* to everyone? Seriously though I think I have a valid point here. I was enjoying the debate and wondered what everyone elses opinion was. I mean maybe moving the topic would have been a much more accpetable response.

I agree with you on the debate itself. It's all right to bomb/shoot/stab people, but not to use IEDs on them?

However, if the debate was closed without just cause, and you have a problem with that, I suggest you do what you say is the proper thing to do and send Thunder a polite PM, asking him for a reason why the topic was closed if it was really a polite, spirited debate. If it was so, then I see no reason why it should be closed, unless people broke forum rules.

As to the whole "maturity" thing, I did not mean to call you or the IED debate in question immature. Please do not take it that way. I was just saying that complaining about someone you have a problem with in public instead of sorting things out "man to man" seems a bit immature to me. Of course, I might have misunderstood your post.

DirtyHarry88 · Post by **DirtyHarry88** » 2007-03-06 14:17

Cravixon wrote:If PR became common knowledge, and the videos around it, I do not doubt that there would be a media frenzy, along with protests etc.

Joke yes?

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-03-06 14:18

I would like to further the debate here.... but .. screw it.

doseph wrote: People aren't, or rather can't, use WWII games as propaganda to support the Nazi party or Hitler. Oh, and go ahead and wear a Swastika and walk around in almost any country, watch the dirty looks and possible punches thrown your way.

You are completely ignoring the way some videos are portrayed. If its a video of in-game footage with Germans fighting Americans, then no it isn't offensive. Why? Because it is obviously just showing the game.

When someone makes a video of Project Reality with music used in real-life terrorist propaganda videos, followed by footage that trys to recreate those same images, then it becomes offensive. It is a game, yes, but that is the point. What kind of person would use a game to recreate terrorist propaganda videos? The game is meant to be entertainment, but some people can and do go too far. I'm not saying this particular video did that, but you can understand what I am getting at.

Making fun, or calling people who take offense to virtual representations of real-life acts stupid or moronic, is as ridiculous as the video made. It may be "just a game", but that doesn't mean it can't be turned into something other then entertainment.

Granted, I don't think this video, or any PR video so far, has set out to be a terrorist propaganda video.

Your wrong. There are plenty of videos made from WW2 games that do the whole Nazi propaganda thing. Because of how long ago that war occured those types of things just don't carry the same bite. Time has passed and those things just don't hurt as much as the did say 60 years ago. That and people don't take it personal. I mean do you think ancestors of the Germanians get overly pissed off at movies depicting the Romans or how they are glorified in certain games?

KP · Post by KP » 2007-03-06 14:18

Cravixon wrote:If PR became common knowledge, and the videos around it, I do not doubt that there would be a media frenzy, along with protests etc.

I'm sure some politician would come shouting and waving his/her arms on the news, but then again, that's what politicians do...

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-03-06 14:27

- 48 hour ban in place.

KP wrote:I agree with you on the debate itself. It's all right to bomb/shoot/stab people, but not to use IEDs on them?

However, if the debate was closed without just cause, and you have a problem with that, I suggest you do what you say is the proper thing to do and send Thunder a polite PM, asking him for a reason why the topic was closed if it was really a polite, spirited debate. If it was so, then I see no reason why it should be closed, unless people broke forum rules.

As to the whole "maturity" thing, I did not mean to call you or the IED debate in question immature. Please do not take it that way. I was just saying that complaining about someone you have a problem with in public instead of sorting things out "man to man" seems a bit immature to me. Of course, I might have misunderstood your post.

Thats fine. I'm not so much calling him out as I am the action of closing a thread for no good reason. A good thread that would have better served being moved if it was not apporpriate for the general forums. Kind of like I don't hate the sinner... just the sin, kind of thing.

Also I am not judging these vids depicting death or games that do the same. I'm giving a reason that people are sensitive to it when it comes to modern conflicts. A war that involved your great, great, great, great, great, great, great uncle holds less emotional value to you. One that was faught yesterday involving your best friend makes you highly sensitive to depictions of the combat. Its simple human nature.

KP · Post by KP » 2007-03-06 14:31

Determined wrote:Thats fine. I'm not so much calling him out as I am the action of closing a thread for no good reason. A good thread that would have better served being moved if it was not apporpriate for the general forums. Kind of like I don't hate the sinner... just the sin, kind of thing.

Also I am not judging these vids depicting death or games that do the same. I'm giving a reason that people are sensitive to it when it comes to modern conflicts. A war that involved your great, great, great, great, great, great, great uncle holds less emotional value to you. One that was faught yesterday involving your best friend makes you highly sensitive to depictions of the combat. Its simple human nature.

In that case, I apologize. I just can't stand people that post their personal gripes all over the forums instead of taking it up with the person in question.

As to the emotional aspects, you make a good point. We can't cater to everyone, and someone will eventually take offence. But why should we stop having fun just because of that. Personally, I find the driving-C4-filled-digital-car-into-digital-tank-while-shouting-like-a-maniac scene hilarious. As long as it's in digital form against digital soldiers, mind you. All the great jokes that would be lost if we were to make sure no one took offense...

KP · Post by KP » 2007-03-06 14:52

Yep, lots of - risking some offensiveness here

- dumb people out there. Then you get mothers, politicians and other people that have no idea what they're talking about foaming around the mouth, shouting and waving their arms about, trying to stop this violent, international trend. Sometimes, I don't know whether to cry or laugh at these people...

DirtyHarry88 · Post by **DirtyHarry88** » 2007-03-06 14:55

KP wrote:Yep, lots of - risking some offensiveness here - dumb people out there.

Oh no, it's true, the general public tend to be morons.

DirtyHarry88 · Post by **DirtyHarry88** » 2007-03-06 15:05

Cravixon wrote:See, it's just about topics that you are concerned about.

If you were on a lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgendered forum, and there was a discusion regarding some random topic, you would be a moron to them (I assume. :razz

I'm not meaning anything to do with gays or peoples' sexual prefernces, I just mean, here anyway, that the vast majority of people seem to be idiots.

I am not talking about this forum, I mean in actual real life so to speak.

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-03-06 15:19

KP wrote:In that case, I apologize. I just can't stand people that post their personal gripes all over the forums instead of taking it up with the person in question.

As to the emotional aspects, you make a good point. We can't cater to everyone, and someone will eventually take offence. But why should we stop having fun just because of that. Personally, I find the driving-C4-filled-digital-car-into-digital-tank-while-shouting-like-a-maniac scene hilarious. As long as it's in digital form against digital soldiers, mind you. All the great jokes that would be lost if we were to make sure no one took offense...

I'm sort of neutral on the actual vids. Some of them weird me out a bit (I just got an alert order to go to Iraq). Again, because it directly involves me and MANY people I know. Even the vid Maistros made give me a weird feeling when I saw it (you know, the infamous Apache killing "farmers" vid). In comparison my grandfather served in WW2 and earned a purple heart, among other meritorious medals, and the rank of First Sgt. Yet vids depicting Nazis don't irk me out like ones of the current conflict. Seeing dead US troops in WW2 pictures don't twist my guts the same way pics of dead US troops in Iraq. I mean I view them both with the same reverance, but the current ones twist me up. I can't explain it, but my only feeling is that "time" has a lot to do with it.

I don't have any ill will towards the people that make these vids. Sometimes I may question their motives or taste, but everyone has their own opinions. Again, I don't judge any of this, just giving a reason why people feel so strongly about it.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » 2007-03-06 15:27

Determined wrote:I know you will delete this thread. I also know that the I will be told the proper response is to private message you. I prefer the public forum.

Knowing what the correct procedures are? $1 for you.

Ignoring the correct procedures because you 'prefer it'? $2 dollars for you.

Getting a 48 hour ban from Gaz for blatently ignoring forum rules?

PRICELESS!

Thread locked because the original post should not have been there in the first place, and everything else is off-topic. And I stay awake at night worrying about what is and what isn't on the PR forums that might offend you.

Not.