artillery...ughh

MG · Post by MG » 2005-08-21 23:32

Main artillery problem is that there is not one but few small problems linked together. So, we can't just put one big solution. But first let's see the problems

· Zoom problem - using max zoom commander easily watch enemy squads.
· Flag problem - squad members can not spread when taking flag. They have to be together at flag.
· Cover problem - there is no a lot of cover from artillery fire. And solders can't dig in.
· Small artillery delays - delay between artillery strikes small. Delay between aim and fire is not big too.
· Fast repair - complete repairing of a gun is very long process but making destroyed gun able to fire takes 1 second. So, why you need complete repair while you can restore all guns in 3 seconds?
· Artillery against artillery problem - one of the normal task of artillery is to suppress or neutralize enemy artillery. And keep in mind that frequent use of artillery make it very easy for enemy to find even hidden artillery site. In BF2 there is no such thing. And it can not be implemented because artillery is always in the same place.

Complete destroying of artillery is not a best solution, because you will constantly have problem on maps where artillery is not near your base (Gulf of Oman). Your enemy can easy destroy the artillery before you deploy troops there! Or may be you think players start guard artillery site? No, because there is no any cover at artillery site. So artillery guard will be just a good target.

Now my suggestions.

· Zoom problem - completely remove max zoom, leave only map. But it will be better if it will be normal (real) military map or photo at least. Usual BF2 map is bad, really bad. Option is let commander watch for enemy using UAV. But enemy should see UAV and have ability to shoot it down with small arms.
· Flag problem - completely remove flags. Instead of flag is better to use logical areas. Map should be divided in to few area without gaps. Areas should not be like squares in chess or any grid. Just logical areas like Hill 1, Oil Plant 2, Western Block (in city). Also areas should be divided in to important (key areas) and not important. Key areas will be like flags. Also in a Field Manual you can find exact size of area which squad can defend.

Other suggestions I will post little bit later.

MadMan · Post by **MadMan** » 2005-08-22 20:15

Although you're right about there not being cover at most artillery sites, you can still keep an eye on the artillery areas for anyone heading in their direction. They should still be out of commission once they're destroyed too. Repairing such a powerful in a few seconds is pretty lame not to mention unrealistic.

Beckwith · Post by **Beckwith** » 2005-08-22 20:27

if you make them unrepairable you make them useless theyll never make it thru a round, and forcing the commander to have them guarded pulls to many men away from the fight

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-08-23 00:16

fine with me, artillery is really, really cheap. as soon as a flag goes neutral it gets artied by the defending commander.

TerribleOne · Post by **TerribleOne** » 2005-08-23 03:08

i think fixed artillery should be scrapped and mortar and as we know allready mobile artillery should step in. Then its not up to the commander but the players who are using them to aim manually. Problem solved as far as i can see?? Plus id love to set up a mortar and blow the hell out of a base.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-08-23 03:09

yeah, and if the commander gave artillery targets thatd be goodd, but it shouldnt be point and click like it is.

MadMan · Post by **MadMan** » 2005-08-23 23:23

Beckwith wrote:if you make them unrepairable you make them useless theyll never make it thru a round, and forcing the commander to have them guarded pulls to many men away from the fight

Ya, and?

Beckwith · Post by **Beckwith** » 2005-08-24 01:21

MadMan wrote:
Beckwith wrote:if you make them unrepairable you make them useless theyll never make it thru a round, and forcing the commander to have them guarded pulls to many men away from the fight
Ya, and?

and in order to keep in secure your taking to many men away from the real fight for an eather A. really boreing job or B. if they do get hit hard and loose it they basically wasted however much time for nothing anyway i know i would never sit there and guard arty itd be a waste of my time, and if no one wants to guard it you might as well take tha arty outa the game

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-08-24 01:23

Amen to taking the stationary commander point and click arty out of the game.

TerribleOne · Post by **TerribleOne** » 2005-08-24 03:09

Definatly.

Jeeves · Post by **Jeeves** » 2005-08-26 19:07

I like the Idea of commander can only use artillery if called for by a squad leader. If multiple request come in it is commanders job to asses the situation and decide where it is needed most.

The artillery now is not that bad as far as aim goes. It is a fairly large strike zone and not acurate at all. Put something over your head or hug a wall and you are fine, for the most part. I rarely die by artilery, and it does add a nice fear to the sound of the first hit.

Making the artillery manualy controlled will take people away to man the guns. I understand this is realistic, but at the same time you are dealing with a handfull of people in game compared to the thousands in real life.

I like the idea of it not being able to be repaired. If there will also be mobile artillery then it will not be that big of a deal at all. And that will allow for the manual artillery with bfv style (or however you decide) spotting.

This is just the way I would like to see it in game, I know not everyone sees things eye to eye so I decided to just throw my 2 cents in.

JEEVES

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-08-26 20:54

actually i think a nice mix of commander arty and manual arty would be okay, but the commander arty needs to be even less accurate, so that the manually operated stuff would actually be used... still i think the commander as a director of artillery rather than the gunner himself would be much better balance wise

Evil Koala · Post by **Evil Koala** » 2005-08-28 18:37

I like the way artillery is now. With a few changes needed for added realism. First off, I think the commander should only be able to call in artillery from the 2nd radio button, in the first person view.. So that if he's observing himself, he can call in accurate arty fire. The only way he can call in an arty strike without actually scouting it himself, is if a squad leader requests it. This would require the squad leader to have eyes on target, to simulate him acting as a spotter. I dont like the idea of manual artillery as it never worked well in DC, and it takes away the number of players on assault.

One thing I would like to see though, is off-map artillery strikes. Like MLRS, or Naval bombardments. These would be called in the same way, but be MUCH larger, and take MUCH longer before another strike is ready.. Maybe only 1-3 per round.

MjauingtoN · Post by **MjauingtoN** » 2005-08-28 19:27

My five cents to this:

Have everything working as it is now but have a gunner to the arty.
And the gunner will get coordinates on a map and then be guided by the comander..
Or something like that.

Wonder · Post by **Wonder** » 2005-08-28 21:39

How about replacing the artillery with a hand-held infantry 'atrillery weapon' say, a radio? The user (FO) would have to have LOS with the target. He then selects the radio from his inventory, looks directly at the target, presses fire to call for a fire mission and after a certain delay shells would start landing on the target area.
He would have to keep looking at the target uninterrupted during the whole barrage and he could adjust fire during the barrage by just looking at the new target area (If he would look at the ground under his feet he'd have to run and duck for cover before the shells would start landing on him)

Please try to understand that we'd have to make servers of max 32-64 players seem like battles of THOUSANDS! We need to use every trick we can to create that illusion!

Post by **Paladin-X** » 2005-08-28 21:42

Are you guys trying to suggest removing Commander altogether?

I don't think it'd be a good idea for every soldier to have. At the very most just the squad leaders.

Wonder · Post by **Wonder** » 2005-08-28 21:44

[R-DEV wrote:Paladin-X]I don't think it'd be a good idea for every soldier to have. At the very most just the squad leaders.

Goes without saying

Either for the squad leader or a specific forward observer class

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-08-29 00:20

yes, a very LIMITED forward observer class, personall i hate artillery.

Wonder · Post by **Wonder** » 2005-08-29 08:23

Artillery is a very important battle element. We just need a clever way to implement it. That's something DICE has failed to do.

TerribleOne · Post by **TerribleOne** » 2005-08-29 12:53

Wonder wrote:How about replacing the artillery with a hand-held infantry 'atrillery weapon' say, a radio? The user (FO) would have to have LOS with the target. He then selects the radio from his inventory, looks directly at the target, presses fire to call for a fire mission and after a certain delay shells would start landing on the target area.
He would have to keep looking at the target uninterrupted during the whole barrage and he could adjust fire during the barrage by just looking at the new target area (If he would look at the ground under his feet he'd have to run and duck for cover before the shells would start landing on him)

Please try to understand that we'd have to make servers of max 32-64 players seem like battles of THOUSANDS! We need to use every trick we can to create that illusion!

No because your going off the track again. the commander should NOT be on the battlefield calling artillery. His job is to inform ground troops about enemy positions and advances, to arrange for re supply and to call soldiers to areas that need it the most. He doesent participate in bombing anything and he certantly does not run around on the field pointing at areas to be blown up.

And i really do think fixed artillery be gone. Its unrealistic in soo many ways that you all know anyway and im not going to repeat.

Mobile artillery and mortar would be the best otpion imo. It will require skill to use both accuratly and allso teamwork to get ev everyone out of the area before carrying out the attack because mortar especially is not a pinpoint tool