Commander Training/Tutorial

General discussion of the Project Reality: BF2 modification.
AfterDune
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Commander Training/Tutorial

Post by AfterDune »

Picture this;
The better commanders (and SL's) are, the heavier the fighting will be, the more tactics we have to use, the more realism, the more fun!

So I ask you, how can we train our commanding skills? I, for example, like to be commander every once in a while (because of the lack of order, sometimes), but I don't think I'm too good at it. I can coordinate a little and help getting the SL's to ask for supplies and arty, but I need training to become good (read: better) at it. Some training would be nice. Something like Fuzzhead's Squad Training :) .

Any suggestions about this?
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eggman
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Post by eggman »

The CMDR changes in v0.6 will need a lil section of the wiki devoted to the CMDR. It's gonna be quite different and part of the intended design is to encourage folks to defend or at least give them something to do while defending.
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Michael_Denmark
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Post by Michael_Denmark »

I have considered this issue too before and still do. Thx for bringing it up.


I think one way to do it could be the Fuzzhead way, where you would dedicate a specific server some time to a commander-training program.

A Project Reality commander-training program in 4 levels could be arranged in something like this:


Commander training program v.01


1. Basic Commander.

Number of lessons:
1 lesson

Time:
30-60 minutes

Participants:
6 players and 1 instructor

Content:
  • · Commander in game tools
  • · Commander in game resources
  • · Squad Leader communication
  • · Squad leader types and basic understanding of how to use squad leaders efficient
  • · Understanding the concept of thinking in tickets
  • · Getting known to decision making in the dynamic PR environment



2. Basic tactical commander.

Number of lessons:
1 lesson

Time:
60-120 minutes

Participants:
6 players and 1 instructor

Content:
  • · Basic tactical knowledge: (Left, Centre, Right) and (Front, Centre, Rear). Understanding the concept of thinking in three. (Including Air, Roof and ground)
  • · Creating useful supply zones for the team
  • · Creating useful mobile spawn point zones for the team
  • · How to use artillery as defensive and offensive tool.
  • · How the team in basic attack
  • · How the team in basic defend
  • · Squads working in formations (Including designated squad areas of responsibilities and fire zones)
  • · Basic shield and sword tactic



3. Basic tactical commander II.

Number of lessons:
1 lesson

Time:
60-120 minutes

Participants:
6 players and 1 instructor

Content:
  • · How the team conducts coordinated attacks (including ground and air attacks plus the use of a reserve)
  • · How the team conducts coordinated defence (including ground and air defence plus the use of a reserve)
  • · How the team retreat as coordinated as possible (the difference between the team sized retreat and the team sized defence)
  • · How the team pursuit as coordinated as possible (the difference between the team sized pursuit and the team sized attack)
  • · Air to land battle, including drop zones/landing zones, chokepoints and kill zones.
  • · Open land battle
  • · Urban/City Battle
  • · Jungle battle



4. Advanced tactical commander.

Number of lessons:
Minimum 1 lesson

Time:
Between 60-120 minutes

Participants:
6 players and 1 instructor

Content:
  • · The meeting engagement
  • · The main battle
  • · The decisive battle
  • · Commander experiences and/or debate

---

This is just the initial thought and will therefore most probably be adjusted so comments, criticism and questions is very welcome.


regards/cheers

mike



Questions and answers:

Q1:Why 6 participants and 1 instructor?

The 6 players that participate in each lesson are all going to act as a commander one time in the lesson. Thus 5 players represent a squad leader with a full sized squad each. Depending on the instructors simulated scenario some squad leaders will act as allied and some as hostile.
The instructor will help and guide each participant when being in command.



Q2: What to be expected from the participants?

In a 4-levelled commander program a lesson is very much depended upon the participant’s motivation. Reason is that every lesson contains a specific list of subjects that the instructor first will introduce the participations too and thereafter give everyone a time period as commander where a specific task is to be completed.
All tasks are related to the introduced subject and a task could for example be as follows:


Related Subject:
Squad leader communication. Instructor will focus on your ability to communicate with squad leaders and not the use of tactics.

Task description and orders:
You are commanding 5 USMC squads in an attack on the MEC Outpost flag zone. 2 of your squads have a humvee vehicle available. 4 of your squad leaders are categorized as attackers (sl 5, sl 2, sl 1 and sl 3), 1 are categorized as defender (sl 4).

Orders:

1. You are to order 3 of your squads to attack the object from northwest and 1 from northeast where enemy rally points has been identified.

2. You also need 1 squad to defend your centre between your attacking formations, so they cant get flanked while moving into the flag zone.

3. When the attacking formation is greying out the enemy flag you must make sure they defend their own perimeter against potential enemy counter attacks.

4. It is vital that your squad leaders understand your orders and receive necessary information.

5. The attack must take no more than 4 minutes.



Task is completed when enemy flag is grayed. If you understand your task commander you may initiate the attack now.
Last edited by Michael_Denmark on 2007-03-10 13:01, edited 1 time in total.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover.
However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.

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We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow... http://gametactic.org/pr
AfterDune
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Post by AfterDune »

This is exactly what I'm talking about! Thanks for thinking this out with me!

I think the above (what you wrote) is a good start. Let's make it better :) .
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Michael_Denmark
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Post by Michael_Denmark »

well feel free to add ideas.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover.
However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.

ImageImage
We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow... http://gametactic.org/pr
fuzzhead
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Post by fuzzhead »

looks great michael should start a day, id want to sign up :)
Michael_Denmark
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Post by Michael_Denmark »

Ill probably try to make a course one day, although it could take some time before i do. Need to think this through, so anyone with comments, ideas, criticism or whatever, feel free to post.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover.
However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.

ImageImage
We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow... http://gametactic.org/pr
Maistros
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Post by Maistros »

Michael, that's great.

You should wait for 0.6 to do this, though, and you'll need to re-write a lot of your program to put the new commander features to practice. Definitely looks great, though, and thanks for putting it together!
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[PTG]Z.user
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Post by [PTG]Z.user »

'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead']looks great michael should start a day, id want to sign up :)
Me too :D
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Michael_Denmark
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Post by Michael_Denmark »

'[R-PUB wrote:Maistros']Michael, that's great.

You should wait for 0.6 to do this, though, and you'll need to re-write a lot of your program to put the new commander features to practice. Definitely looks great, though, and thanks for putting it together!
Ok. No problem. Only the initial idea anyway.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover.
However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.

ImageImage
We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow... http://gametactic.org/pr
General_J0k3r
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Post by General_J0k3r »

i sign up too :D
Michael_Denmark
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Post by Michael_Denmark »

Okay guys, this is v. 02 of the attempt to design a commander-training program for project reality. At this point on the brainstorm level though, I am still focusing on the headlines in order to get some consistence.
Additional of the subjects now got a specific description and some got an expected time length if they content stuff for an exercise.

Feel free to comment: Is it too advanced, too stupid, too basic, too serious, too unserious, too much or does it just sound interesting?

Also feel free to post your own ideas.

Send me a pm/mail if you don’t want to use the forum.

Nice to see people signing up btw. Thx. :smile:

Mike






Commander training program v.02




1. Basic Commander Communication.


What you need to know in order to participate.
Navigating the commander screen and make use of the commander resources. In short how to use the drop down list function, zooming in and out on the map, denying or accepting a request, communicating with all or some squad leaders, using the chat panel and navigating the kit/vehicle identifier panel.

Lessons:
1

Time:
45-60 minutes (Below 45 min. if the participants are experienced in commander communication)

Participants:
6 players and 1 instructor

Description:
Basically just focus on how the commander communicates with squad leaders.

Content:
  • Using different Squad Leader types efficient. Type description. 12 - 18 very basic questions and maybe 3 – 6 very basic exercises. (5m)
  • Commander communication. Introducing the project reality commander communication principles. 6 exercises. (35m)
  • Thinking in tickets. Introducing cost/benefit in terms of tickets. 3 - 6 exercises. (10m)
  • Evaluating the general communication in the previous exercises. (10m)




2. Basic Organizing Commander.


What you need in order to participate.
Basic Commander Communication. Its recommendable if you have tried to be commanding at least a couple of times on a public server. (Full sized team)

Lessons:
1

Time:
60-120 minutes

Participants:
6 players and 1 instructor

Description:
Getting basic knowledge in how to organize the Project Reality team so any situational cause in loosing the overview is reduced.

Content:
  • Why organize? Introduction to the two most basic methods of organize the project reality team: the weapon focused and the mission focused. 6 basic exercises/questions? (15m)
  • Organizing the basic tactical formation. Introducing basic tactical formational knowledge: (Left, Centre, Right), (Front, Centre, Rear). Listing the definitions and introducing basic use of them. 6 exercises about this concept of thinking in three. (35m)
  • Designating AOR (Area Of Responsibilities) to Squad leaders. Description of AOR and fire zones. X exercises. (?m)
  • Organizing the teams processing resources. Descriptions of how to position useful supply zones, position useful spawn point zones and how to use artillery as a defensive and offensive tool. 3 - 6 basic exercises. (?m)
  • Organizing the air battle. Description of how to organize altitude orders, transportation paths/corridors, landing zones, battle zones and teamwork between ground and air units. Questions or excises? Not sure know yet? (?m)
  • Noob and Vet Squads. Defining the two basic project reality squad types. X exercises. (?m)




3. Basic Tactical Commander.

What you need in order to participate.
Basic Commander organizing

Lessons:
1

Time:
? minutes

Participants:
6 players and 1 instructor

Content:
  • How does a coordinated project reality team attack? Introducing fire and movement, team sized attack formations; I, T, arrow, V, X, square, the flanking manoeuvre, encirclement plus the reserve as a tool of weight. X exercises. (?m)
  • How does a coordinated project reality team defend? Introducing the basic perimeter concept with its areas of responsibilities, basic fire zones, basic static and mobile defence, basic team sized defence formations: line, V, X, square and circle plus basic ideas to draw the attacker inside a prepared killing zone. X exercises. (?m)
  • Situational recognition. Introducing the discipline of situational recognition. X exercises. (?m)
  • Situational adjustment. Defining team sized formational adjustment, team-sized retreat and team-sized pursuit. How to know when the adjustment has changed? (I.e. Retreat to defence) X exercises. (?m)
  • Project Reality battle environments: Introducing basic principles for the project reality team working in urban/city, open Land, jungle/forest. Which environment do you as commander like the most, and why? X exercises. (?m)
  • Air to land battle. Describing the concept of echelon focus, including drop zones/landing zones, chokepoints and kill zones. Introducing ideas in how to use the concept in project reality. X exercises. (?m)
  • Air battle. Introducing the basic principles of how to make use of attack and defend tactics in the project reality environment plus ground support and ground and air forces teamwork. X exercises. (?m)




4. Advanced Tactical Commander.


What you need in order to participate.
Basic tactical commander

Lessons:
Minimum 1 lesson

Time:
? minutes

Participants:
6 players and 1 instructor

Content:
  • The meeting engagement. Basic definition and possibilities. X exercises. (?m)
  • The main battle. Basic definition and possibilities. X exercises. (?m)
  • The decisive battle. Basic definition and possibilities. X exercises. (?m)
  • Can battles in the project reality environment be won even before they are fought? Introducing basic principles of how to win a team sized battle before it’s fought. Definition of free movement. X exercises. (?m)
  • Thinking in phases. Introduction in how to structurize the project reality battle using phases. X exercises. (?m)




5. Battling Commander


What you need in order to participate.
Advanced Tactical Commander

Lessons:
5 – 10 lessons

Time:
X minutes plus additional time to designing/planning and battling.

Participants:
Minimum 2 participants and 1 instructor

Content:
  • Designing and/or adjusting the war plan. Basic planning principles and introduction to the concept of phase planning. X exercises. (?m)
  • Using the war plan. Describing principles of how to use the plan in a project reality environment and the necessarity to be ahead of the battle. X exercises. (?m)
  • Commander battles. Full sized team battles (32/32) with players from the project reality community. X exercises. (?m)
  • Battle reports, evaluations, constructive criticism and debate. What type/s of commander are you? X exercises. (?m)




6. Advanced Battling Commander


What you need in order to participate.
Minimum 5 lessons of Battling Commander

Additional requirements.
Documented use of minimum 5 different self-designed war plans (only fully team sized), including documented evaluation of these. Beside of that an open mind, motivation, curiosity and patience. Maybe there should be an access exercise? Not sure yet.

Participants:
No limit of participants + 1 “instructor”

Lessons:
X

Time:
X time

Description:
For participants only.

Content:
  • Divergent tool. X basic and advanced/very advanced exercises. (X time)
Last edited by Michael_Denmark on 2007-03-11 19:05, edited 1 time in total.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover.
However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.

ImageImage
We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow... http://gametactic.org/pr
fuzzhead
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Post by fuzzhead »

looking good :)

eager to get in on a day!
AfterDune
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Post by AfterDune »

Ye, looking very good indeed! If sessions are to be helt (?), I'll sign up too. Once 0.6 is out and the training program has been completed (will it ever be?), perhaps discuss it with some people, so more guys can teach this stuff.

And video-footage would be great too. But first, let's finish this one :) . Tnx, Michael.
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Michael_Denmark
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Post by Michael_Denmark »

Sessions will be held. How many? Don’t know?

The program will probably evolve after each lesson. Maybe it will prove it self to be too banal and basic to its target group, or maybe the opposite?
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover.
However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.

ImageImage
We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow... http://gametactic.org/pr
Liquid_Cow
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Post by Liquid_Cow »

To get the entire team of 6 (I assume that the "volunteer" squad leaders would also want to learn, otherwise why bother) to the "Advanced" level you'd need to spend somewhere near 36 hours in lessons. I like playing the game, not taking lessons. 36 hours repesents 4 weeks of game play for me (assuming I didn't take a night off from regular play).

I'm a dedicated player, just not that dedicate. I'd love to help write Wiki articles on commanding (which I'm pretty good at), but I would have to pass on loosing an entire month of play time for a "virtual" certificate.

Sorry to sound negative, I just don't think this is realistic. One quick lesson, OK, 6 I don't think so, but if it floats your boat be my guest, I'll be playing at devfile if you want to find me ;)
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xgayox
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Post by xgayox »

I would DEFINITELY sign up. Many times ive wanted to be commander, but really have no idea where to start.
Michael_Denmark
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Post by Michael_Denmark »

Liquid_Cow wrote:To get the entire team of 6 (I assume that the "volunteer" squad leaders would also want to learn, otherwise why bother) to the "Advanced" level you'd need to spend somewhere near 36 hours in lessons. I like playing the game, not taking lessons. 36 hours repesents 4 weeks of game play for me (assuming I didn't take a night off from regular play).

I'm a dedicated player, just not that dedicate. I'd love to help write Wiki articles on commanding (which I'm pretty good at), but I would have to pass on loosing an entire month of play time for a "virtual" certificate.

Sorry to sound negative, I just don't think this is realistic. One quick lesson, OK, 6 I don't think so, but if it floats your boat be my guest, I'll be playing at devfile if you want to find me ;)


Good comments. Thanks.


Yes the time factor is huge in v. 02. But please keep in mind that the stuff in v.02 is still on the brainstorm level.


Maybe more concrete thinking and idea development of the specific subject-exercises will result in possibilities like lesson 1 and 2 being compressed into just 1 lesson with a shorter time range than the present ones has together?

And perhaps the 5 - 10 lessons of Battling Commander will also be reduced?
Then again, perhaps it will end up quite opposite with even more lessons and/or exercises?


Only the upcoming concrete results in developing the headlines and their specific exercises will tell. Arguments like yours will also shape the development of the program. No doubt about that.


The main reason for embedding the huge time factor in v.02 is that I began to visualize two target groups when I finished v.01, which had only one and much more homogeneity group in focus.

I think that there should be a possibility of offering exercises to more than one target group only. Just like Battlefield it self do too.


V. 02 were developed from using two target groups for the training program: The basic and the advanced group. And actually i now think in three-target groups. A conclusion I came to when rethinking the tactical component in 01.
So although I began 02 focusing on two groups I ended up in a program that basically is divided in three groups:


1.
Basic commander skills: Communication and organisation.
“Yes…I don’t feel crappy in commanding anymore!”

2.
All the basal tactics: Theory combined with the stuff from first component.
“Hmm…the map is pretty linear, so maybe we shouldn’t all go for small village? Maybe someone need to go for outpost also?”

3.
Practising all the commander skills.
“So if I choose to read the battle like that, what will the enemy commander do then? What will be the next move? Maybe I should listen to that piece of music again?”



Mike
Last edited by Michael_Denmark on 2007-03-19 15:12, edited 1 time in total.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover.
However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.

ImageImage
We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow... http://gametactic.org/pr
Liquid_Cow
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Post by Liquid_Cow »

I think a place to start, and to reduce the overall time commitment would be a self study manual. Would be commanders could get a fair bit of practice with a step by step in single player mode. There are also several manuals published by the military which talk about real world tactical decisions, many of which apply to this game (even vanilla benifits from real life experience for the commander).

Bear in mind that IRL the military starts training its people to be leaders early in boot camp. I don't remember as a boot Marine being told to learn my superior's duties ASAP, cause you never know when he's gonna get killed. As a result, by the time you're just a fire team (in game squad) leader you've got 1-2 years training. To become a squad leader (4 fire teams) 3-5 years. We're trying to learn a job on par with a platoon officer in a few weeks.

The other thing which is missing would be some sort of ability to look over the fledgling commander's shoulder to see what he's doing and point things out. Kinda like PC Anywhere for BF2.

Something which might assist this training, along with general game play would be a "white board" which all team members could see.

There is a training aid for BF2 which allows you to white board over the vanilla maps, wonder if it would work with PRM and other mods? This would be helpful for several students to watch and feed back to the instructor. Anyone remember what it was called?
Last edited by Liquid_Cow on 2007-03-12 23:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Michael_Denmark
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Post by Michael_Denmark »

Thx for your comments. Really appreciate it cause it forces me to angle the problems and rethink. :thumbsup:

I think a place to start, and to reduce the overall time commitment would be a self-study manual. Would be commanders could get a fair bit of practice with a step by step in single player mode. There are also several manuals published by the military which talk about real world tactical decisions, many of which apply to this game (even vanilla benifits from real life experience for the commander).
Good points. I agree to some extend.

Thing is that I still focus on trying to design something useful for 3 different target groups with 3 different levels of complexities.

And concerning the first target group i don’t think it’s helpful that the content is too complicated as if embedding too much tactical knowledge into the sessions. (If any at all?) Even though this knowledge could be accessible from a “read me first” manual.

Commanding a full sized project reality team on a public server is not easy. Even to organize a team on a public server is not easy.
Maybe players like you and me, who have the benefit from our military experience don’t view the commander function as that challenging, but for most new players without M experience it is.

Furthermore the success criteria for the first target group (so far :mrgreen: ) are to give the participant some self-confidence when being in command. And I think that the self-confidence would evolve better from real exercises with other participants than using training material only.

But!

I also think it would be useful if some supporting material were created to the first target group. Maybe videos with stuff from the training program exercises, or maybe something else?

Regarding the other two target groups the focus is primarily to introduce basically tactically knowledge and then how-to-use-it in the game. Here I think that the additional material you are addressing could be very useful to most of the subjects.

Bear in mind that IRL the military starts training its people to be leaders early in boot camp. I don't remember as a boot Marine being told to learn my superior's duties ASAP, cause you never know when he's gonna get killed. As a result, by the time you're just a fire team (in game squad) leader you've got 1-2 years training. To become a squad leader (4 fire teams) 3-5 years. We're trying to learn a job on par with a platoon officer in a few weeks.
Yep that’s the basic crack isn’t it? What does the design of a program that needs to be useful to the participant (being a vet or a noob player and with or without real life experience) and conducted in as short a time as possible, look like?

I don’t know for sure yet?
Is the V.02 program the final solution to the training program or just a frame to a single target group it self? Meaning there should be 3 different versions of V.02 with different complexity and time lengths.

So far my only conclusion is that time will tell.
The other thing which is missing would be some sort of ability to look over the fledgling commander's shoulder to see what he's doing and point things out. Kinda like PC Anywhere for BF2.


Not sure i understand the argument here. What does PC stands for? Are you thinking in in-game videos from the commander screen only?

Something which might assist this training, along with general game play would be a "white board" which all team members could see.
There is a training aid for BF2 which allows you to white board over the vanilla maps, wonder if it would work with PRM and other mods? This would be helpful for several students to watch and feed back to the instructor. Anyone remember what it was called?
I have never heard about that white board thing for BF, unless it’s that small tactical planning program, you refer too? (Can’t remember the name) I used it in a Danish BF2 clan a few times.

Not able to answer on that before I know what it is. But since I’m a real life white board person. Bring it on! 8)


Mike
Last edited by Michael_Denmark on 2007-03-14 13:53, edited 1 time in total.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover.
However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.

ImageImage
We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow... http://gametactic.org/pr
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