Get rid of the Marksman kit. Controversy!

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-03-10 21:01

Here's a thought that will get alot of people's backs up but hey I'll throw it out there and see

The marksman kit as it currently is, is just a pseudo-sniper ... and I have never seen a sniper play as a squad player. Not once in probably a hundred hours of PR 0.5. The purpose of the marksman kit as squad level long range fire support just does not happen in PR - simply because sniping and racking up kills in the middle of nowhere can be more rewarding to some people. People can say 'oh I play as marksman/sniper as a squadplayer all the time' all they want - congratulations, assuming you're being honest you are one in a hundred, a total rarity amongst the playerbase.

My proposition is - Get rid of the Marksman Kit.

Deep breathes everyone!
I would rather see it as the default squad leader weapon rather than a scoped assault rifle. So when selecting the officer kit, your primary weapon becomes the DMR. To me there are nothing but benefits to this.
- It rewards squad leaders with a great weapon (m14, svd soon to be marksman G3 etc). Everyone covets the mighty DMR and giving it to SLs means that squadleading and not loners is elevated
- It forces the marksman to be in a squad at ALL times - the squad leader is effectively the squad and having a DMR in a squad 100% of the time is vital, the DMR is the heart of a real infantry squad
- It encourages slower pace as a marksman rifle when used like a sniper rifle means that a squad leader can sit down for long periods of time laying down fire and the squadmates around him can follow his fire on positions rather than the current situation of SLs having to close the distance to 10s of metres just to engage hostiles

The last perhaps is most important - the current gameplay can be very 'gamey' with not enough time to be tactical as a lone enemy player could spawn out in the middle of nowhere at any second - giving the SL the DMR means that there is a natural gameplay mechanic to set up shop in a defensive position and scan the distance properly, respawning squadmates will stay with you rather than charge blindly off (hopefully) and the squadleader would have an appropriate weapon to support advancing comrades attacking a target.

Doubt this will be popular seeing as the vast majority of current marksmen play as pseudo-snipers and loners but this imo is vital for the teamwork, gameplay and indeed popularity of the game. Saying the current situation is 'fine' doesn't cut it - loners kill this game and currently marksmen are just snipers with a diiferent name.

Thoughts?

edit: For clarity

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-03-10 21:05

Hfett · Post by **Hfett** » 2007-03-10 21:05

Well i got a clanmate that is always my marksman(when he is able to get the kit)

Im always the Sl and he is always on the top of something covering and spoting for our squad

You cant mod the players =)

Gyberg · Post by **Gyberg** » 2007-03-10 21:07

Like the thought of it, however I think that there will be too many DMRs It is possible to have 5 full squads a side in a 64p server which makes it so that every team can have 5 DMRs. That will in my opinion be too many of them.

Resjah · Post by **Resjah** » 2007-03-10 21:13

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:no

this.

I love my M-14

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2007-03-10 21:32

Squad leaders shouldn't get DMR's.

Post by **Katarn** » 2007-03-10 21:52

Cerberus, did you read what he wrote at all?

Harrelson · Post by **Harrelson** » 2007-03-10 21:57

Take it out, too many 1 shot kill weapons floating everywhere. and the sniper shouldnt have double zoom, instead give him better zoom.

Post by **Katarn** » 2007-03-10 22:03

Harrelson wrote:too many 1 shot kill weapons floating everywhere.

This isn't CS, the idea is to not get hit at all.

DirtyHarry88 · Post by **DirtyHarry88** » 2007-03-10 22:11

The M14 is simply too sexual to give to an SL.

Post by **bosco_** » 2007-03-10 22:14

If the M14 was the Officer's standard weapon, we would have people who only go SL to get it.

Rick_the_new_guy · Post by **Rick_the_new_guy** » 2007-03-10 22:17

I have never used this kit.

I say no also.

Like for the SL to be more of a grunt and lead up front now that the Rally Points are here.

IMO, Marksman would be well for defensive roles, used for picking off assaultig warriors.

Marksman would work pretty well with the grunt squad actually.
Sort of like Shifty off Band of Brothers.

__

I do like the idea of having a super zoom for snipers. Should limit the kit more if done so.
1/16 manned platoon.
2/ 32 player platoon.

zepplin1 · Post by **zepplin1** » 2007-03-10 22:22

maby u guys could make the m14 have a full auto option. I no for a fact tht they had a full auto swich in nam.

Blackhawk 5 · Post by **Blackhawk 5** » 2007-03-10 22:24

Sometimes I see a marksman with the team, reason is that the weapon is a medium - far range, so its support long distance kind of. From closest -farthest heres my chart

Knife>Pistol>Shotgun>Rifiles>Rifileman>Marksman> Sniper

Martini · Post by **Martini** » 2007-03-10 22:36

Giving all SL's M14's isn't a great solution.

If anything I would like to see a change made so that people who want to be a sniper do not have to be in a squad.

Too many times a person just joins a squad to get the sniper kit, and that is just counter productive.

JMO

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-03-10 23:19

horrible idea. Not trying to rip you apart, it's just horrible. The Squadleader would never have an m14 in the first place. that's the riflemans weapon after passing marksman and then getting expert marksman. Squadleader is a leader in RL and not the guy that sits back taking out people. More or less the SL is commanding and fighting second then fighting first and commanding second.

Thus said, the point of the DMR is squad level long range support correct? the fact that people use the DMR as a sniper rifle instead of a squad level support weapon is something that you will never have control over. It is how they play and you cant change that however hard you want to. The horrible truth is that your marksman in your squad has to get it before those wannabe-snipers get it so that he can actually do some good. I've play Basrah and Muttrah so many times to know that having a DMR in your squad in your column moving down an alley way or down a street is a valuble asset. It's just the people.

By choosing who can and who cant get the kit, you're taking choice away which is something horrible in a game.

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-03-10 23:23

bosco wrote:If the M14 was the Officer's standard weapon, we would have people who only go SL to get it.

much like the way that people just join in and out of a squad to get a sniper rifle right? Except with the officer kit you need to have 4 people in your squad to request it in the first place. And unless you actually do some squad leading people will not stay in your squad meaning no DMR for you! Profit!
I suppose it's just a simple but in my eyes effective way of making the officer kit more attractive and also eliminating loning in favour of total squad teamwork. Two birds with one stone so to speak.

Batalla35 · Post by **Batalla35** » 2007-03-10 23:23

Im with skeletor..now there are twice snipers(most of them score whores) than before

batatall35

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-03-10 23:40

zepplin1 wrote:maby u guys could make the m14 have a full auto option. I no for a fact tht they had a full auto swich in nam.

The weapon in PR is a DMR based on the M14 National March. Which does not have full auto.

As for DMRs for SL's I quite like the idea.

KP · Post by KP » 2007-03-11 00:34

Let's ask ourselves one question: do squad leaders use DMRs in real life?

No?

Well, then it's not so great. You'd also have a lot more DMRs to worry about. There's a maximum of nine squads in BF2. Nine marksmen on each team, plus two snipers? I'm not too happy about it. The problem here's the people who use the thing. If a good teamplayer gets his hand on the DMR, then it's all bliss. I also know how great it is to have a DM in your squad. Problem is the people who want it for the wow-factor. We need to prevent these people from getting the thing, and I honestly don't think giving it to the SL kit is a good idea.