Get rid of the Marksman kit. Controversy!

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I vote no.
Like others have said....to many sniper style rifles on the battlefield then.
And, I make a squad, get the weapon ....then leave to go lonewolfing with my uberleet sniper skills.
I think the system as it is works rather well.

[Copperhead4985]

You could have a bag of rocks as your main weapon and somebody is still going to use is in another way than you intended..

[WNxKenwayy]

Project REALITY



No

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Why doesn't someone modify a map to only offer sniper and DM's rifles and the sniper whores can all hang out there ?

[mammikoura]

no

agreed 100%

[Smitty4212]

My vote is no.

The officer kit is fine as is, the marksmen kit is fine. Like everyone has said, the behavior of the players is the problem and is not something you can fix. I've had fellow squadmates use the marksmen kit quite effectively before.

And the zoom isn't exactly great on it, you don't get that much ammo, etc., so I really don't even see it used as a sniper's weapon as much as some people say it is.

I know I'm guilty of straying from the squad when I've had my hands on a marksmen kit, but often times it's not so much to go lone wolf and play sniper, but usually to get into a position where I'm going to be most effective. Me running into close combat with the rest of my squad and dying = not good. Me sitting on a tall roof and watching over my squad = good.

[IronTaxi]

excellent idea...then we can get devfile to put up a 24/7 sniperwhore server and you guys can have a great old time!!!

i think the kits are fine right now altohugh admittedly i havent put in alot of gaming time recently as i have be deving

Why doesn't someone modify a map to only offer sniper and DM's rifles and the sniper whores can all hang out there ?

[$kelet0r]

Like I said in the beginning, this was going to attract alot of negative responses

Project REALITY
No

Explain. A squad leader is likely the most highly trained individual on a frontline infantry level - having them armed with a weapon requiring higher than basic proficiency in rifle is not unrealistic, it's quite plausible in my eyes.

There's a maximum of nine squads in BF2. Nine marksmen on each team, plus two snipers? I'm not too happy about it.

32 players. Increase the minimum to 5 in a squad to get an officer kit and you have at most 5-6 DMRs, which seems reasonable. Granted not every officer or sergeant is issued a DMR irl but on the other hand
- every irl squad level unit has a DMR. Hell the whole Soviet military doctrine was based on massed armour and infantry squads with an SVD.
- using a DMR requires more experience and training in marksmanship which an NCO would likely have
- someone said we cannot mod the players (people on this forum always say that ). I disagree. In the same way that taxation is used to modify behaviour, PRM can take steps to alter player's behaviour. So we have a kit that needs to be used in a squad but ingame never is. Solution: give the kit to the player that has to be in a squad at all times. Problem solved.
Like KP said the problem is with the people who use it now. So rather than change the player who use it now, give it to the players who will use it in its intended squad level role.

[Rick_the_new_guy]

Wow, I just checked the PR primer; I forgot how limited these kits are. Excellent.

Limited Kit Quantities
The number of kits available is adjusted dynamically based on the number of players on a team. The figures below represent the v0.4 default settings for kit availability.

8 players or less on the team = 0 Sniper , 1 Marksman, 1 Support, 1 AA Rifleman, 1 Heavy AT

16 players or less on the team = 1 Sniper, 1 Marksman, 2 Support, 1 AA Rifleman, 1 Heavy AT

24 players or less on the team = 1 Sniper, 2 Marksman, 3 Support, 2 AA Rifleman, 2 Heavy AT

32 players or less on the team = 2 Sniper, 2 Marksman, 4 Support, 2 AA Rifleman, 2 Heavy AT

Retrieved from "http://guide.realitymod.com/index.php?t ... t_limiting"

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I think the responses have been well written in a respectful manner.

One could go SL and get the Marksmen kit, and depend on an APC as a Rally Point for the squad.

Granted, there are only two kits on a full server. These kits should be in the hands of someone who is fully focused on being a Marksman. As Irish pointed out the SL has many things to think about and focus on.

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Also taken from the PR primer:
The Designated Marksman (DM) is a military role in an infantry squad. The designated marksman's role is to supply rapid accurate fire on enemy targets at ranges up to 500 meters (550 yd) with a telescopic-sighted, very-accurate, semiautomatic rifle. Like snipers, DMs are trained in precision shooting, but unlike the more specialised 'true' sniper, they are also intended to lay down accurate rapid fire.

As the role of Designated Marksman fills the gap between a normal infantryman and a sniper, the so-called designated marksman rifles are also designed with this middle ground in mind. These rifles have to be effective - in terms of accuracy and terminal ballistics - at ranges exceeding those of assault rifles (typically 500 m or 550 yd), but do not require the extended ranges of a dedicated sniper rifle (1000 m or 1100 yd and more).

Ric talking: Due to the fog, are both the sniper and marksmen the same?
Again, I have never played Marksman.



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With regards to not letting snipers in squads, do not agree with.

Snipers can very easily be in the Special forces squad.

Alpaha is a four man Special Forces fire team,

Bravo, farther back guarding the Defense CP flanks are the two snipers. They can work together in giving intell to the CO. The SL would be in the larger fire-team of cource.

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[Wasteland]

The main problem I see with this Skelator is this. People would rotate out of the SL position in order to create squads full of SLs. And you can't time lock the SL kit, because then you'd have the pre-.509 problem of not being able to get an officer kit when you spawn back after your squad being wiped out.

[PlayPR!]

I played in a sniper super team. Me and this dude named whitefeather teamed up with the Chinese marksman kits and snuck behind the british lines on Operation Ghost Train. So whitefeather and I killed most the people we saw at Farm, so he moved in and killed the Commander and then two guys spawned in and started shooting, so he asked me to make a distraction so he could out of their base. I blew up some barrels by them with my sniper then they looked in the other direction and got away from them safe and sound.

Oh ya then we went on to kill the Brits spawn point on tunnael so they would have to spawn all the way back at farm.

[Soulja]

My opinion on this in the first place was to just add the M16 or M4 Designated Marksman build instead of the M14. The chinese rifleman kit is basically a DM after you learn how it shoots because of the scope. The US rifleman should get a optical sight or maybe a 2x. That's my opinion, there was never a need for a marksman in the first place.

[[TT]engineer]

The M14 DMR is a far less effective rifle at long ranges than the M24 SWS.

But the M16A4 does need to come in with a 4x scope or something.

[r3st]

marksmen works very well as marksmen, especially on maps like jabal

[Dr. Chagas]

Maps should either have a marksman or sniper kit. Not both.

Urban enviroment, marksman kit.

Non-urban enviroment, sniper kit.

'Nuff said.

[Wasteland]

Maps should either have a marksman or sniper kit. Not both.

Urban enviroment, marksman kit.

Non-urban enviroment, sniper kit.

'Nuff said.

That. Is. Ridiculous.

[causticbeat]

i think the DMR weapons are too sniperish... what we need is something like a standard rifle with a 6x scope and bipod, or something like that. more of a "sniper variant" on an assault rifle, not a rifle that a player will immediately connect with long range sniping style of play. im not sure what modifications are technically available, but a modified assault rifle.

[causticbeat]

That. Is. Ridiculous.

That. Is. How it was up until .5. maybe you forgot

[ColonelKlunk]

it would be cool if you could select the marksman kit from the spawn menu every now and then. What I mean is that it would be cool if there was a spawn menu for each squad. So that there were limited kits per each squad that could be selected from the spawn menu. But I guess the PR devs already have that set up by selecting kits from APCS and stuff.